What's new

PAK-FA on the road to nowhere?

313ghazi

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
12,932
Reaction score
45
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
The co-development and production of the Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), also known in India as the Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF), one of the most high profile joint Indo-Russian defense projects remains stuck despite recent comments by a senior Russian official that a final contract may be signed soon.

Sergey Chemezov, the CEO of Russian state-owned Rostec Corporation, said in an interview that he expects a contract to be signed soon. “The first stage of the project is completed, now the second stage is under discussion. I think that the contract documents will be signed in the very near future,” Chemezov told IANS. “The project is very complex, but the work continues, although not so quickly.”

Russian officials have time and again expressed similar sentiments about the imminent conclusion of a final contract for the past three years with little to show.

India and Russia originally signed an inter-governmental agreement for the project in 2007, which was followed by the inking of a design contract for the co-development of the FGFA/PMF in 2010. Issues immediately arose over what technologies should to be used for the new aircraft and both sides also failed to agree to a work and cost sharing plan.

As I noted elsewhere:

Delays were caused by New Delhi and Moscow disagreeing over many fundamental aspects of the joint development project including work and cost share, aircraft technology, as well as the number of aircraft to be ordered. After evaluating the first PAK FA T-50 prototype (the Russian prototype of the PMF), the Indian Air Force (IAF) wanted more than 40 changes addressing, among other things, perceived weaknesses in the plane’s engine, stealth, and weapon-carrying capabilities.

India and Russia also failed to agree on the number of aircraft to be produced:

Russia announced in late 2015 that it would only induct a squadron (18-24 aircraft) of PAK FA fighter aircraft, and procure additional Sukhoi Su-35 aircraft instead. The original deal involved Russia procuring 250 and India 144 aircraft at a cost of around $30 billion by 2022. As a result, India threatened to abandon the project in its entirety. Russia in turn made a number of concessions including an offer to cut down its financial contribution from $6 to $ 3.7 billion for three PAK FA T-50 prototypes and substantial technology transfers.

India held out however. Nevertheless, a panel instated by the Indian Ministry of Defense, headed by retired Air Marshal Simhakutty Varthaman, purportedly recommended in August 2017 that the project, despite its high cost, proceed. Frustrated with the delays, the IAF has repeatedly expressed its desire to end collaboration on the joint Indo-Russian stealth fighter project.


https://thediplomat.com/2018/01/india-russia-5th-generation-fighter-jet-program-road-to-nowhere/
 
.
india refused to be milked, too late into F-35 orders even if F-35 is offered(first delivery perhaps 10-12 years later), refuse to acknowledge china's J-31 capabilities over Tejas.

S300 not purchased, S400 too expensivr.

End result = india wont have safe skies beyond india.

in 2008 india is defended by SU-30MKI

in 2018 its still the same.
 
Last edited:
. .
Just a dumb article with skewed facts.

F-35 would be more realistic option for IAF

Even if we buy F-35s, we will still have the need to buy PAK FA or a similar aircraft. F-35 will only eat into the Rafale, F-16/Gripen requirement, not FGFA's because of the role difference.

That's why various air forces like Japan, S Korea and Turkey are going for alternate next gen programs alongside their F-35 purchase.
 
.
Just a dumb article with skewed facts.



Even if we buy F-35s, we will still have the need to buy PAK FA or a similar aircraft. F-35 will only eat into the Rafale, F-16/Gripen requirement, not FGFA's because of the role difference.

That's why various air forces like Japan, S Korea and Turkey are going for alternate next gen programs alongside their F-35 purchase.

PAK FA will take a while and F-22 is not for sale. Maybe India can partner with Turkey, S Korea, or Japan as a jr partner.

india refused to be milked, too late into F-35 orders even if F-35 is offered(first delivery perhaps 10-12 years later), refuse to acknowledge china's J-31 capabilities over Tejas.

S300 not purchased, S400 too expensivr.

End result = india wont have safe skies beyond india.

in 2008 india is defended by SU-30MKI

in 2018 its still the same.

It’s a safe bet that by 2028, it’s the same
 
.
PAK FA will take a while and F-22 is not for sale. Maybe India can partner with Turkey, S Korea, or Japan as a jr partner
Their products are nowhere as close as PAK FA...pakfa will be redy much before theirs
 
. .
india refused to be milked, too late into F-35 orders even if F-35 is offered(first delivery perhaps 10-12 years later), refuse to acknowledge china's J-31 capabilities over Tejas.

FGFA is not expected for at least 8 years either.

S300 not purchased, S400 too expensivr.

We don't need the S300 and the S400 is a very big deal, not like the ones being signed by Turkey and China. We want ToT, we want to integrate it with our defences, we want modernization etc.

End result = india wont have safe skies beyond india.

Don't worry about that. There are plenty of alternate options, some being exercised as we speak.

in 2008 india is defended by SU-30MKI

in 2018 its still the same.

Transitions happen over 20+ years, not just 10 years. In 1997, China was defended by Su-27 and in 2017 also, it's no different.

Maybe India can partner with Turkey, S Korea, or Japan as a jr partner.

Those three countries can be India's junior partners.

France is considering the idea of replacing their M-2000s with India's AMCA.
 
.
Transitions happen over 20+ years, not just 10 years. In 1997, China was defended by Su-27 and in 2017 also, it's no different.


Front-line fighter aircraft of PLAAF:

1997: SU-27
2007: SU-27, J-10A
2017: SU-27, J-10A/B/C, J-20

Can you see how China is going forward?

Those three countries can be India's junior partners.

France is considering the idea of replacing their M-2000s with India's AMCA.

:rofl:
 
. .
Front-line fighter aircraft of PLAAF:

1997: SU-27
2007: SU-27, J-10A
2017: SU-27, J-10A/B/C, J-20

Can you see how China is going forward?

Only the main air dominance aircraft matters. Everything else is simply supporting characters.

The overall situation favours IAF because we have been operating M-2000 and Mig-29 also, while the Chinese upgraded directly from Mig-21 class fighters.
 
.
Only the main air dominance aircraft matters. Everything else is simply supporting characters.

The overall situation favours IAF because we have been operating M-2000 and Mig-29 also, while the Chinese upgraded directly from Mig-21 class fighters.

Is this supposed to be some kind of joke?

China went from J-7(3rd gen) to SU-27(4th gen) to J-10(4.5 gen) to J-20(5th generation).

In any kind of air-battle between IAF and PLAAF, a squadron of 5th gen J-20s will be used to swot IAF's 4th gen fighters out of the sky like swotting flies.
 
.
Is this supposed to be some kind of joke?

China went from J-7(3rd gen) to SU-27(4th gen) to J-10(4.5 gen) to J-20(5th generation).

In any kind of air-battle between IAF and PLAAF, a squadron of 5th gen J-20s will be used to swot IAF's 4th gen fighters out of the sky like swotting flies.

These Indians believe that Tejas is more advanced compare to J-20 as all Chinese built planes are categorized as junk. No matter how advanced they are.
 
.
F-35 would be more realistic option for IAF

not sure how its gonna work out bro!
India could have been using the F-35 if not for some indecision by their leadership.

pretty sure that trump will want india to have f-16/fa-18 production lines open.

india might have been able to access the F-35 under obama

PAK FA will take a while and F-22 is not for sale. Maybe India can partner with Turkey, S Korea, or Japan as a jr partner.



It’s a safe bet that by 2028, it’s the same

quite sure china will have ew resistant stealth air superiority drones by then

Front-line fighter aircraft of PLAAF:

1997: SU-27
2007: SU-27, J-10A
2017: SU-27, J-10A/B/C, J-20

Can you see how China is going forward?

exactly - this is what i wanted to say.

An armed forces should always be fluid to mould itself to respond to threats.

The current tech gap between india and china is extremely wide, just thankful that india has nukes if not it will be occupied
 
.
not sure how its gonna work out bro!
India could have been using the F-35 if not for some indecision by their leadership



quite sure china will have ew resistant stealth air superiority drones by then

Yap. And as of now, even if they get back to the end of line for F-35, it could still be India’s best option. At this point, it should stop asking for TOT with F-35 if India is serious.

I would place an order on F-35 and try to develop other platforms. If India cant produced jack in the mean time, it still have F-35 to fall back on. Let’s say if India place an order for F-35 now, it can always cancel if India miraculously develop a fifth gen fighter.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom