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Pak cross-LoC raid: Brutality similar to 2000 strike

HAIDER

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NEW DELHI: Nobody wants to be on record, but many seasoned Pakistani watchers within the security establishment are beginning to suspect that Tuesday's attack on Indian soldiers may have been executed by the Special Services Group (SSG), the Pakistan army's commando unit. Reasons for this presumption are many — most important being that the one operation that has most parallels with the attack was a strike of February 2000, which was suspected to be an action by the SSG.

"I don't have any credible evidence to say for sure, but the way the operation was carried out, the beheading etc point fingers at the SSG," said a senior official in the security establishment. He said it had an uncanny resemblance to the February 27, 2000, operation, which was led by Ilyas Kashmiri, the dreaded terrorist commander who was killed recently in a US drone attack.

Though some dispute it, many in the Indian establishment believe Kashmiri was actually a member of the SSG when he carried out the raid. A second group has said that Kashmiri was working in tandem with SSG and not really a member of the commando unit. But all of them agree on Kashmiri's SSG training for his Afghan missions and later operations in Kashmir.

According to the Army, the Pakistani attackers were wearing black uniforms, which is a standard SSG outfit. Started in 1950s, SSG has had active role in most of the wars with India, and it has also played a key role in the mujahideen war against Russians in Afghanistan through the 1980s. SSG is known to have significant operations along the Indian border.

The 2000 raid was on Ashok Listening Post, a remote advance post that had already been identified vulnerable by the commanding officer of 17 Maratha Light Infantry. Seven Indian soldiers were killed, and sepoy Bhausaheb Maruti Talekar (24) was beheaded and his severed head taken back to ***. Pakistani media has reported that Kashmiri paraded the head before Gen Pervez Musharraf and in the local town.

This time the attack came when three soldiers were part of a patrol party, close to LOC, and ahead of the fence. It is possible that the attackers lay in waiting through the night. In Tuesday's attack, they severed the head of one soldier, and tried to take the head of the other, but failed. They also took away the personal weapons of the two jawans. The third soldier escaped with injuries.

"It is almost a repeat of what happened in 2000," a second Kashmir hand said. He said the attackers were "either SSG members or terrorists".

A third source, who was involved in dealing with the 2000 attack, said the attack had an eerie resemblance to the 2000 attack and brought back memories of that raid. "But it could well be my hunch," he said.

However, there are two other probabilities. One, the attack was carried out by regular Pakistani soldiers. Second, it was an action by terrorists with the blessings of the Pakistani Army.

Whatever may be the scenario, and whoever may have carried out the attack, one thing is for sure in the Indian security establishment— that it was not possible without the active support of the local Pakistani Army unit.
Pak cross-LoC raid: Brutality similar to 2000 strike by Ilyas Kashmiri - The Times of India
 
Ilyas Kashmiri was never in the SSG. The whole basis for the article is a sham.
 
^^Hamid Mir in an article says he was ex-SSG...or was it an urban myth ?

Not only him..but two other articles also refer to him as ex-SSG...
 
And secondly the Indian Army spokesman has himself denied that the soldiers were not beheaded, further proving that this is a piece of media sensationalism and nothing more.

^^Hamid Mir in an article says he was ex-SSG...or was it an urban myth ?

Not only him..but two other articles also refer to him as ex-SSG...

That's the whole genesis of this Urban Legend but you might want to follow it more closely to learn that the PA denied that Ilyas Kashmiri was ever a part of the Army. Subsequent programs to investigate the incident by other channels also found that the story was a farce and at one point, even Ilyas Kashmiri was asked on a phone line if this fable is true and even the terrorist denied that he was ever in the SSG!

This is a rebuttal written by the Late Col(r). Imam who died in terrorist's captivity in 2010.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/56894-ilyas-kashmiri-not-ex-ssg-rebuttal-hamid-mir-s-report.html
 
Thanks for the SSG clarification


And secondly the Indian Army spokesman has himself denied that the soldiers were not beheaded, further proving that this is a piece of media sensationalism and nothing more.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/229137-indian-army-officially-confirms-beheading-soldiers.html

Seeking to set the details right, Colonel Dahiya said that “it is reiterated that the body of one soldier was found mutilated and beheaded, the body of [the] second soldier was also mutilated during this ceasefire violation on 08 Jan 2013 in Mendhar Sector by Pakistan”.
 

The Indian Army needs to get their act together and find out what happened to their Jawans, they put up statements and tear them down faster than Britney Spears marries and gets a divorce!

India lashes Pakistan after deadly Kashmir encounter | Reuters

The body of one of the soldiers was found mutilated in a forested area on the side controlled by India, Rajesh K. Kalia, spokesman for the Indian army's Northern Command, said. However, he denied Indian media reports that one body had been decapitated and another had its throat slit.
 
India media is a sick media and they are making their nation not any different. Look at these words.

many seasoned Pakistani watchers within the security establishment are beginning to suspect that Tuesday's attack on Indian soldiers may have been executed by the Special Services Group (SSG), the Pakistan army's commando unit. Reasons for this presumption are many — most important being that the one operation that has most parallels with the attack was a strike of February 2000, which was suspected to be an action by the SSG.

What are Indian minds cooking anyway.. are they looking for war? For what? Suspected to be similar to earlier suspicions? You Indian fellas who are suspecting suspension to be similar to their earlier suspicions are seriously out of sensibility. BUT - as always, sensibility is not your media's identification anyway.

Expect MORONS to get out, thump their chest and create mountain out of their own faults. Its INDIA WHO VIOLATED LINE OF CONTROL AND KILLED A PAKISTANI SOLDIER but see these minds getting retard to next level and now even Indian Media is blaming Pakistan for breaking seasfire. Such a poisonous crap and who are they feeding that.. YES THEIR OWN COUNTRYMEN! Good on India I guess! :bounce:
 
The Indian Army needs to get their act together and find out what happened to their Jawans, they put up statements and tear them down faster than Britney Spears marries and gets a divorce!

India lashes Pakistan after deadly Kashmir encounter | Reuters


What I gave is the latest. You are quoting an earlier release when the details were not clear.

.......In a statement titled ‘Mutilation and beheading of Indian soldiers killed in Pakistan raid’, MoD spokesperson Colonel Jagdeep Dahiya noted Mr. Jilani's remarks to the media in Islamabad on Friday — reported in The Hindu on January 12, 2013 — as well as an earlier Reuters wire service story of January 8 which had quoted the spokesperson of India’s Northern Army Command as saying that while the bodies had been mutilated, they had not been beheaded.

It is clarified that Pakistan has quoted the initial press release given by the spokesman of Indian Army’s Northern Command, on 08 Jan 2012, when the details of the incident were still not clear,” the MoD said. “Subsequently, on the same day, Indian Army made a statement that the body of one soldier was mutilated. Both these statements were made based on the information available at the time of making those statements.”

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...onfirms-beheading-soldiers.html#ixzz2HpzTJ76R

So yes, the final official word is both bodies were mutilated and Lance Naik Hemraj Singh was beheaded with his head still missing.
 
What I gave is the latest. You are quoting an earlier release when the details were not clear.

If even after the coffins had been delivered to their families, the Indian Army was unaware of what fate had befallen their soldiers, then it's either very shoddy organization or they are just loading things.

So yes, the final official word is both bodies were mutilated and Lance Naik Hemraj Singh was beheaded with his head still missing.

I'll believe that when:

1) We see the head.
2) We see the detailed autopsy report that has been approved by a neutral third party. Until then, I will trust what the Indian Northern Command Spokesman said, because if he had passed an incorrect statement, he would have been posted out or discharged.
 
The Indian Army needs to get their act together and find out what happened to their Jawans, ......

India lashes Pakistan after deadly Kashmir encounter | Reuters


Indeed. But I think that after the flurry of statements, IA's stand points to beheading and mutilation.


Ilyas Kashmiri was never in the SSG. The whole basis for the article is a sham.

For one, I don't think that the basis for the article is Kashmiri being SSG. For another, the article does state that not everyone thought he was SSG, but working with them.
 
BTW, Reuters is a much more reliable source as compared to The Hindu.

Indeed. But I think that after the flurry of statements, IA's stand points to beheading and mutilation.


Statements don't change on a daily basis, I fail to believe that the Northern Command did not notice the severed head the day before but did so yesterday.

For one, I don't think that the basis for the article is Kashmiri being SSG. For another, the article does state that not everyone thought he was SSG, but working with them.

There are no SSG deployments on the LoC, it is manned entirely by Mujahid Battalions that are essentially independent of the standard military set up and spend their entire service on the Indo-Pak Border, sorry, no SSG, not even regular Army Officers here.
 
1) We see the head.
2) We see the detailed autopsy report that has been approved by a neutral third party. Until then, I will trust what the Indian Northern Command Spokesman said, because if he had passed an incorrect statement, he would have been posted out or discharged.

Whats up man ? The Ministry of Defence has officially stated that the body was beheaded and the Army too has clarified that there was one beheading. I have given you the source to the latest update and still you want to believe an earlier version..What more can one do ?

If even after the coffins had been delivered to their families, the Indian Army was unaware of what fate had befallen their soldiers, then it's either very shoddy organization or they are just loading things.

Making beheading public is not a simple issue. For some of those rajput folks that constitutes their honor and I've heard in such sensitive cases the army takes the permission of the family to release such details.Else they just go by the generic term "mutilation". Once the mother of the shaheed too said that "Only after I gve a proper cremation to head, I will have peace", then the army seems to have come out in the open.

So the MoD has confirmed
The army has clarified it and subsequently confirmed
The mother of the martyr has confirmed.

If all these three does not make you believe, then nothing else will. I'll say no more.
 
In 2003 Pakistani Soldiers beheaded 4 Jat soldiers.

Few Days later Jats killed 9 Pakistani Soldiers and beheaded 4 of them.
 
Indian army northern command statement should be taken more serious than the col. since the official might also be present at the site.while i doubt about the col.

In 2003 Pakistani Soldiers beheaded 4 Jat soldiers.

Few Days later Jats killed 9 Pakistani Soldiers and beheaded 4 of them.

doesnt this put both the indian and pakistan army at barbarism?which your media call so?
 
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