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PAF urgent need of SAM

First of all, I showed you how, economics, tighten ur laws and develope your own technology, if you can not read these and understand that's different story we can open new thread bcz we don't want to high jack this thread. Second, these two lines has huge meanings just like smal quote has big meaning. So if you are smart enough to understand this then I guess you won't ask for more details.im sorry not to hurt your feelings, truly respect your reply

Hi,

The problem over here is that you have to survive the onslaught till you reach that pleateau----. The issue is not that to reaching the top---the issue is of obstacles in way and how to overcome those obstacles.
 
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as situation is going worse day by day on LOC and we all know after modi will fail to fulfill his promises to Indian he will sure divert attention of his public . he is even doing even now . there are huge chance of minor or major conflict between tow nations . we all know our air force is not in good shape as it was in past wars . its now modern era and if i am not wrong we hardly have 150 modern fighter jets

18 block-52
53 jf-17
40 MLU

other all is not worth to put in war even lets be realistic here . our army is in good shape and they need just air cover . AA already rushing to get choppers. but situation is bad for air defence of Pakistan
the longest missile we have is some 30 years old HQ-2 with range of 45km others all we have can protect cities and vital points but not cover whole border.

we have spada-2000 with range of 60km and other old SAMs which i don't think will work good against high speed moving targets .new chines system HQ-7 is nothing but short range same with range of 15km . crotale is very old 15km range and others are MANPADs and AA guns which work on mercy of luck.

don't you think we have nothing in air defense which scare enemy fighters to fly over pakistan ? world is moving on 400KM range sams which pissed off pilots to fly over countries and we hardly have some 50km range missiles in hands . HQ-18 reported to be under evaluation in November 2010 by pakistan but then no any news .its 100km range S-300V built by china . it is minimum we should have to protect us or else GOD BLESS US .

please no wet dreams posts don't you guys think its high time to urgent order of long range SAMs from china ????? or we have to wait till we went deep in mess???


PAF has a total of 76 F-16s
so around 130 modern fighters
these are enough to counter all IAF fighters except the su-30 mki
PAF need air superiority fighters to counter some 200 flankers F-15 strike eagle is perhaps the best option but no chance US will allow it
other options can be chinese j-11 of russian su-35 two or three squadrons should be enough for a country the size of pakistan
as far as SAMs are concerned the best and available option is the chinese derivative of s-300 maybe pakistan should get licence production for that system to promote local industry
 
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In my opinion, the S300/400 Is the best thing to use against the Sukhoi 30 MKI.
It'll be hard for our F16s to go up against the beastly Su 30, unless we have the numbers and quality advantage.
 
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PAF is biggest stupid force in world only making videos of bombing Long range SAM will give greater operational effectiveness im anazed that our thinking is very limited and always it sorounded over F 16 and medium range sam

When we had spada 2000 why buy another FM 90 of same range better bought long range this shows how weak lack luster and stupid policy they have

Imran bhai if they did sensible things in PAF and PN and bought things which matter to stop a war as of today india is itching for war will cause us historical misery as 71 we cant afford it anymore
 
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PAF has a total of 76 F-16s
so around 130 modern fighters
these are enough to counter all IAF fighters except the su-30 mki
PAF need air superiority fighters to counter some 200 flankers F-15 strike eagle is perhaps the best option but no chance US will allow it
other options can be chinese j-11 of russian su-35 two or three squadrons should be enough for a country the size of pakistan
as far as SAMs are concerned the best and available option is the chinese derivative of s-300 maybe pakistan should get licence production for that system to promote local industry
No one is denying the need for either a twin engined platform for Air superiority/naval role and LRSAMs.
I hate the "our planes cannot go up against The SU MKI" debate. bhai are we talking about an air encounter or an Akhara where two Pehlwans are having a Kushti. Why do posters think the USAF perseveres with F16 inspite of having beasts like F15/18s and manufactures F35 inspite of having F22. Do the US fighter pilots go back to base if they are in a single engined fighter and face a twin engined fighter. What have the results of F16 vs F15/18 encounters been? There obviously is more to it than meets the eye. So what are the factors?
Twin engined platforms also suffer from Bigger RCS which makes them visible from a long distance.Single engined platforms for obvious reasons have smaller RCS and will be difficult to visualize so they do have their own advantage.
The other factors will be the range of the radar, an AESA and the range and quality of your BVR. In the presence of these factors the advantage of a twin engined fighter is neutralized. No one but a pimply youth will send a twin engined planed armed with 12 BVRs into an engagement zone as short as the Indo-Pak arena. You need to see the demo of the EFT fully armed from a couple of yrs ago and realize how a n armed fighter turns into a brick more difficult to maneuvre and turn. If it is a combo of 4 BVrs +WVRs the JFT will carry it as well as any other twin engined fighter. No one will loiter around in an arena where BVRs are flying Left right and center unless one has a death wish.
So single engined fighters have their own distinct advantage.In the light of the ABOVE YOU HAVE TO SEE THE FOCUS OF DEVELOPEMENT OF JFT TO SEE WHAT THE PLANNERS ARE GOING FOR.
All of you need to read a brilliant post by @Oscar on the subject if you want to learn( JFT is the wrong omnirole aircraft for PAF# post 128). If you want to just pontificate after this then please continue.
Now the subject of LRSAMS. We know that these are expensive. Our only ally in this field is China and till 5-10 yrs ago it did not have a credible product to sell. The other offerings were too expensive for us and possibly not available as well. So we now only after many yrs have options open up to us with appropriate loans and friendship prices which we might be able to afford. The batteries for LRSAMs are still expensive and run into billions(3-4 Billion$) so they are not easy to get from anywhere.
With all other needs to take account of we have to prioritise our limited budget to get the maximum bang for the buck. Again on the subject of TOT we need to be realistic. What will our friends help us with and what will they object to or pleasantly and courteously decline is something that a lot of us do not understand. To quote an example it is on record that 2-3 yrs ago the Chinese denied us access to the Qing class subs. They have every right to do so.
The last factor in this whole equation is what is a viable option for us to get TOT on and what is not. Again one needs to look at our priority and what our friends will let us access and indeed what we are capable of absorbing in our industrial setup.
These are factors which need to be taken into account before posting your opinions. You need to remember why we made JFT as simple as it was with no composites and why one of our previous ACM said it was not possible for us to absorb the technology present on the Gripen.
Araz
 
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and Pakistani Military Command knows that quite well.


Are u in Pakistan military high command that u know they know india won't fight them

Both Pakistan and india are enemies and always ready to fight each another

This point of yours make me think who made you PDF Think Tank
 
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Are u in Pakistan military high command that u know they know india won't fight them

Both Pakistan and india are enemies and always ready to fight each another

This point of yours make me think who made you PDF Think Tank
Firstly respect others if you want to be respected. Give respect where it is due and that includes members senior to you irrespective of their thinking and nationality. If you want to disagree do it with an equally valid argument otherwise let others deal with it.
Secondly, In this case@ MilSpec is right. With the advent of Nukes in the Indo Pak arena both nations are vary of a skirmish escalating and would not want it to do so. The lack of trust is such that you dont want others to start off bu want to be the first one to strike and strike massively. The stand offs of 2002 was an example of that. Whereas one cannot totally exclude the possibility of war in the region I think both nations will try their utmost to avoid one.
Araz
 
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India has zero interest in fighting Pakistan, and Pakistani Military Command knows that quite well.
Yeahh and thats why India Always Violate Cease Fire and is also NOT ready to call UN Observer Team on Boarder :P ?
Man do you think we are goofs or you are trying to depict yourself as a Biggest Goof :P ?
 
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Just have a look at Egyptian air defense................... Buk, Crotale,Tor................. (video name is wrongly mentioned as Pakistan air defense)

That's just a small live fire exercise:-


Missile based Air Defence systems only:-

Modernized MIM-23 HAWK "Improved HAWK" missile:

9K37 Buk-M1-2

9M317 Buk-M2

9K331 Tor M1

9K332 Tor M2

Modernised S-125 Pechora 2M

Modernised 2K12 Kub

Amoun Air Defence system (2 4-cell Aspide missile launchers and 2 Oerlikon GDF-005 twin 35mm guns with one Skyguard Fire Control System per battery)

Modernised Cortale NG

MIM 72/M48 Chapparral

AN/TWQ-1 Avenger

Anatey 2500/S-300 VM
 
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Yeahh and thats why India Always Violate Cease Fire and is also NOT ready to call UN Observer Team on Boarder :P ?
Man do you think we are goofs or you are trying to depict yourself as a Biggest Goof :P ?
We are the goofs... :)
 
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No one is denying the need for either a twin engined platform for Air superiority/naval role and LRSAMs.
I hate the "our planes cannot go up against The SU MKI" debate. bhai are we talking about an air encounter or an Akhara where two Pehlwans are having a Kushti. Why do posters think the USAF perseveres with F16 inspite of having beasts like F15/18s and manufactures F35 inspite of having F22. Do the US fighter pilots go back to base if they are in a single engined fighter and face a twin engined fighter. What have the results of F16 vs F15/18 encounters been? There obviously is more to it than meets the eye. So what are the factors? Twin engined platforms also suffer from Bigger RCS which makes them visible from a long distance.Single engined platforms for obvious reasons have smaller RCS and will be difficult to visualize so they do have their own advantage. The other factors will be the range of the radar, an AESA and the range and quality of your BVR. In the presence of these factors the advantage of a twin engined fighter is neutralized. No one but a pimply youth will send a twin engined planed armed with 12 BVRs into an engagement zone as short as the Indo-Pak arena. You need to see the demo of the EFT fully armed from a couple of yrs ago and realize how a n armed fighter turns into a brick more difficult to maneuvre and turn. If it is a combo of 4 BVrs +WVRs the JFT will carry it as well as any other twin engined fighter. No one will loiter around in an arena where BVRs are flying Left right and center unless one has a death wish. So single engined fighters have their own distinct advantage.In the light of the ABOVE YOU HAVE TO SEE THE FOCUS OF DEVELOPEMENT OF JFT TO SEE WHAT THE PLANNERS ARE GOING FOR.
All of you need to read a brilliant post by @Oscar on the subject if you want to learn( JFT is the wrong omnirole aircraft for PAF# post 128). If you want to just pontificate after this then please continue.
Now the subject of LRSAMS. We know that these are expensive. Our only ally in this field is China and till 5-10 yrs ago it did not have a credible product to sell. The other offerings were too expensive for us and possibly not available as well. So we now only after many yrs have options open up to us with appropriate loans and friendship prices which we might be able to afford. The batteries for LRSAMs are still expensive and run into billions(3-4 Billion$) so they are not easy to get from anywhere. With all other needs to take account of we have to prioritise our limited budget to get the maximum bang for the buck. Again on the subject of TOT we need to be realistic. What will our friends help us with and what will they object to or pleasantly and courteously decline is something that a lot of us do not understand. To quote an example it is on record that 2-3 yrs ago the Chinese denied us access to the Qing class subs. They have every right to do so. The last factor in this whole equation is what is a viable option for us to get TOT on and what is not. Again one needs to look at our priority and what our friends will let us access and indeed what we are capable of absorbing in our industrial setup. These are factors which need to be taken into account before posting your opinions. You need to remember why we made JFT as simple as it was with no composites and why one of our previous ACM said it was not possible for us to absorb the technology present on the Gripen.
Araz
Sir
If you could divide it in paragraphs that would be more helpful.
 
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Again in addition to acquiring advanced SAMs and air defence systems from the market, we need to develop and evolve our own systems based on existing technology, like Anza mk III and IV etc and new concepts from the scratch. It takes time but that is how it works...develop,....improve....further develop until you meet all the challenges. SAMs have a great export potential and no export barriers are there.
 
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Yeahh and thats why India Always Violate Cease Fire and is also NOT ready to call UN Observer Team on Boarder :P ?
Man do you think we are goofs or you are trying to depict yourself as a Biggest Goof :P ?

Both sides are not interested in peace either... We have a chalta hai attitude... all this peace weace, needs a lot of work, and both sides have bigger fish to fry, both are politically lethargic and absolutely lack foresight and vision for the long term solutions.

India is cannot and won't roll over and demolish the 7th largest standing military on this planet. Pakistan is not going to break through into a 2nd largest standing military on earth either, so there is no winner in this game, and yes I do call it a game, because that is how it has become a over drawn game of number cricket that doesn't want to end. All parties hate each other but will still play along.

Are u in Pakistan military high command that u know they know india won't fight them

Both Pakistan and india are enemies and always ready to fight each another

This point of yours make me think who made you PDF Think Tank
No. I believe the the Pakistani Military command has exceptional strategists, who know the exact ground realities of theater of conflict...Thus my humble comment. Hope that explains my point.
 
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