PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[The Terminator]

So it is confirmed. Mash'Allah great news.
Its always better to work with the Chinese on basically everything, because they are not duplicitious like the West are.

I think you meant to say hypocrites and cunning fellas

 

[araz]

It probably is, but what's wrong with PAF buying both the J10C and JF-17B3 in a Hi Lo combo. Indian media is massively exaggerating the Rafale angle. Replacement for PAF current F-16 fleet is needed irrespective of IAF procurements. IMO, PAF's F-16's should be sold on the second hand market and replaced with 100 or so J-10C. 100 J-10C's are far more potent then 80 older block F-16's.

It is not so much a "replacement" of the 16s as a "complement to". One of the things we have not talked about much is the impact of US sanctions on the PAF. Currently within a couple of months PAF will need to get spares from the black market. In case of war this need will become more dire. To circumvent this PAF is relying on the J10 which will take over/complement that role so the thought of sanctions and its possible benefits to the US(bending Pakistani decision making to its advantage) are nullified to some extent. So 0AF is not looking to let go of the 16s at all.
A

 

[CrazyZ]

It is not so much a "replacement" of the 16s as a "complement to". One of the things we have not talked about much is the impact of US sanctions on the PAF. Currently within a couple of months PAF will need to get spares from the black market. In case of war this need will become more dire. To circumvent this PAF is relying on the J10 which will take over/complement that role so the thought of sanctions and its possible benefits to the US(bending Pakistani decision making to its advantage) are nullified to some extent. So 0AF is not looking to let go of the 16s at all.
A

F-16 are a stranded asset for Pakistan. Sell them while they still have value. We must think strategically. Too many emotional Viper fanboys on PDF. A number of MENA countries will take them.

 

[FuturePAF]

A recent rumor (July 2020) suggested that a semi-stealth variant (J-10D?) was being developed to supplement the more expensive J-20 and J-35.

The latest rumor (November 2021) suggested that the first J-10D prototype has been built at CAC. Its maiden flight is expected to be by the end of the year.
- Last Updated 11/20/21

http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.com/p/fighters-ii.html

First of all that’s a beautiful angle of the J-10C. Secondly, a follow on order by the PAF could presumably be J-10D in a few years. Let the wishlists begin (A semi-stealth J-10D was something I had hoped for years, so it’s good to see it might be underdevelopment and if so, I hope the PAF procures it to improve its Qualitative edge over the IAF, and a good way to build up the technological know how of the PAF and PAC in the development of Project AZM. A good counter to the Su-75 in the international arms market.

What will the J-10 continue to improve? Or with deep stealth performance, Chengjian 20 is the best partner! _fighter

J-10D - itw01.com What will the J-10 continue to improve? Or with deep stealth performance, Chengjian 20 is the best partner! _fighter...

thaimilitaryandasianregion.blogspot.com

 

[Imran Khan]

F-16 are a stranded asset for Pakistan. Sell them while they still have value. We must think strategically. Too many emotional Viper fanboys on PDF. A number of MENA countries will take them.

then we will under Chinese mercy after USA

 

[Abid123]

Can it carry the PL-21?

 

[The Eagle]

First of all that’s a beautiful angle of the J-10C. Secondly, a follow on order by the PAF could presumably be J-10D in a few years. Let the wishlists begin (A semi-stealth J-10D was something I had hoped for years, so it’s good to see it might be underdevelopment and if so, I hope the PAF procures it to improve its Qualitative edge over the IAF, and a good way to build up the technological know how of the PAF and PAC in the development of Project AZM. A good counter to the Su-75 in the international arms market.

What will the J-10 continue to improve? Or with deep stealth performance, Chengjian 20 is the best partner! _fighter

J-10D - itw01.com What will the J-10 continue to improve? Or with deep stealth performance, Chengjian 20 is the best partner! _fighter...

thaimilitaryandasianregion.blogspot.com

Just look at how USAF did with twin and single jet engine. F-22 and F-35. For single engine, US didn't modify the F-16 but went ahead with a new aircraft which eventually was a result of experience on F-16 and replace it. Similarly, if there's already a twin engine J-20 then by same law of true stealth development, the J-10 can become a baseline for totally new single engine 5th Gen fighter jet for PLAAF like F-35. Speaking of supplementing the J-20, I think further soft upgrades and use of RAM can bring current J-10C as a supplementing figure. IMO, if there has to be a single engine PLAAF bird, most probably gonna be a new jet. In the mean time, we cannot ignore another 5th Gen J-35 by PLAAF that suggests that they aren't going for single engine 5th Jen since they have a bit more powerful bird falling almost in Medium weight category.

I can be wrong in my assessment, though.

 

[m52k85]

رفال کا مقابلہ کرنے کے لیے پاکستان جے ٹین سی خرید رہا ہے

آج کل پاکستان کے عسکری فورمز میں خبریں گردش کر رہی ہیں کہ پاکستان جے ایف 17 تھنڈر کے بلاک تھری کے ساتھ ساتھ پاک فضائیہ کے بیڑے میں جے ٹین سی لڑاکا طیارے بھی شامل کر رہا ہے۔ ایئر فورس کے ترجمان نے فی الحال اس حوالے سے کچھ بھی کہنے سے معذرت کی ہے کہ معاہدہ کس نوعیت کا ہے اور پہلی کھیپ کب پاکستان...

www.independenturdu.com

 

[Big_bud]

Indians are those paindus who first time have bought a good jet and are jumping like little kids out of excitement!

These brainless people can only focus on what their media tells them. JF 17 is Chinese, J10 is Chinese. Won't fly. Won't work etc! Despite using Russian equipment all their lives. Today we are learning how our F16s were a big source of inferiority for them all along! They manage to get a western aircraft and can't contain themselves these poor things!

I have been trolling them with some facts, it really rubs hard on their wounds once they realise that their government and media didn't tell them that PL15s on our JFs and J10s will far exceed range of their missiles! And PAF retains first see and first shoot capability! Their rafales would have no choice but to turn back around once they see them coming!

Accepting reality is really hard for them! This lot is really complexed! I have a blast exposing them! Haha

 

[White Lion]

It is not so much a "replacement" of the 16s as a "complement to". One of the things we have not talked about much is the impact of US sanctions on the PAF. Currently within a couple of months PAF will need to get spares from the black market. In case of war this need will become more dire. To circumvent this PAF is relying on the J10 which will take over/complement that role so the thought of sanctions and its possible benefits to the US(bending Pakistani decision making to its advantage) are nullified to some extent. So 0AF is not looking to let go of the 16s at all.
A

The policies of Trump are causing troubles for F-16's specially the older ones as many European countries would be putting those up for sale in the immediate future. PAF was one of the prime contender for these aircraft. However it can be said that these countries would be forced to give these aircraft to Ukraine and Poland but the numbers would cause Russia to retaliate in kind.

Turkish F16's replacement tender is also under hot water so it would really become interesting.

Pakistan Navy was looking to procure some new fighter aircraft but they were asked to buy the Jf17 my the then PM. Still this procurement is open and PN could opt for J10C as well which would compliment the PAF.

Recently Biden was briefed on JF17 block3 and now the news of J10C in the PAF has given the Americans a headache. US think tanks are considering this as a bigger loss than the loss to Taliban.

 

[FuturePAF]

Just look at how USAF did with twin and single jet engine. F-22 and F-35. For single engine, US didn't modify the F-16 but went ahead with a new aircraft which eventually was a result of experience on F-16 and replace it. Similarly, if there's already a twin engine J-20 then by same law of true stealth development, the J-10 can become a baseline for totally new single engine 5th Gen fighter jet for PLAAF like F-35. Speaking of supplementing the J-20, I think further soft upgrades and use of RAM can bring current J-10C as a supplementing figure. IMO, if there has to be a single engine PLAAF bird, most probably gonna be a new jet. In the mean time, we cannot ignore another 5th Gen J-35 by PLAAF that suggests that they aren't going for single engine 5th Jen since they have a bit more powerful bird falling almost in Medium weight category.

I can be wrong in my assessment, though.

Your right, modest upgrades to the J-10 design; like RAM and the like, while a clean sheet design based on the J-20 is more likely. I think the limitation is the WS-15 engine; once it reaches performance goals (180+kn) and mass production it is likely it will be fielded. The PLAAF may stop at 400-500 J-20s (per conflicting online rumors) and IMHO, they might for at least an equal number of single engine platforms and or a mix with the J-35s. Although the J-35 will probably, IMHO, remain primarily a PLANAF bird.

 

[Aspen]

I must admit for a long time I didn't believe that PAF would actually have the sense to realize that the J-10C is the best choice for the job, but I am glad that they came to this conclusion eventually. I was pretty worried that they were going to just make more JF-17B3 and hope that was enough which was a recipe for disaster. Somebody in PAF or PLAAF must have smacked them into reality and told them to get a real air superiority fighter and get it in big numbers. I was hoping for years that it would be J-10C and must say I was very surprised that they actually did the right thing. We can get 4 J-10C for every Rafale so PAF must take advantage of this. J-10C is a better plane than F-16 in every way but I think China has not really had the opportunity to demonstrate the actual capabilities of this plane, so now Pakistan is going to be China's platform to demonstrate what they are actually capable of vis a vis Taiwan and India. There are a lot of people out there especially in the west who deliberately underestimate and play down the quality of Chinese fighters for a number of reasons. Even a lot of Pakistanis are guilty of being unabashed Viper fanboys. Most of us on this forum have know for years that J-10C is a serious killer but outside of military forums like this, most Pakistanis and non-Chinese people probably have no idea that China has fighters that are equal to or better than what US keeps for themselves, they are in for a big surprise.

I would say what makes Pakistan's J-10C fleet particularly interesting is that although some other countries in the region like UAE, Qatar, Saudi, Egypt have very impressive fleet acquisitions, those planes will never be used in a manner that requires their full capabilities at the edge of their performance envelope. Countries that sell to the Gulf know the most that their military equipment will be used is to do some easy bombing runs in Yemen which is a completely one sided war against a country that has no air force. Selling to Pakistan is a completely different story, we must be the only country in the world right now that is on bad terms with US and is getting military equipment this advanced. Taiwan, Israel, and Ukraine need military equipment that actually works and they are getting it, but they are also puppets of US. Pakistan is on the opposite side of US, yet we are getting the likes of J-10C which is practically the best that you can buy right now as a country that actually has to use these planes and fight a real enemy. US has not sold F-35 to any country that has had a major military conflict in last 10 years besides Israel after Turkey got kicked out, so practically speaking, if China is selling us J-10C they are expecting this plane to be used as a real fighter and not for some fake softball NATO photo interception.

Practically speaking, out of the major influential countries on bad terms with US excluding Russia and China, that have some kind of US sanctions, I would say that list includes Venezuela, Belarus, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, Pakistan is the only country on that list to be getting latest generation technology like 4.5 gen J-10C. Can you imagine if North Korea or Iran got something like this. People would be freaking out. The Pentagon is already spooked enough that Iran and North Korea have their own missiles, if they somehow get 4.5 gen non-US fighters like Pakistan, that would be completely unacceptable risk from US perspective. Turkey is similar story, if Pentagon knew Turkey was going to make their own drones and actually use them, they probably wouldn't have kicked Turkey out of F-35 program because at least they could control it. Now Pentagon has no control over Turkey and that has really spooked a lot of people in DC as it was viewed as a clever move to punish Turkey but then ultimately backfired in spectacular fashion and gave Turkey the last laugh as the top drone manufacturer. I think Pakistan was for US the last remaining major hostile country in the region that they could somewhat control through sanctions but now that domino too has also fallen. J-10C is not dangerous because of any advanced radar and missile capabilities that it has but because it gives a level of strategic autonomy and expanded operational discretion to PAF that did not exist with F-16. For New Delhi, basically it is that unlike F-16, J-10C can actually be used anywhere offensively so this definitely changes some calculations of South Block. The days of PAF keeping tight lid on F-16 use are over, sure Swift Retort was done during broad daylight, but with J-10C now PAF will really do things out in the open for everyone to see unlike before. There is no consequence from China of using J-10C against India so now PAF can openly retaliate for things that they could not have used F-16 for.

India will have to act carefully now. Would not be surprised if after all of India's belligerence over the past year, this is how China decided to punish India by playing the long game as Beijing always does, quietly but in a calculated way. Border incursions like Ladakh are small fish for China, they won't stoop to India's level to retaliate or respond at the border, China will retaliate like a real superpower. The real way for China to get back at India and unleash the fangs on New Delhi is to make PAF a 1st rate Air Force as good as PLAAF and arm Pakistan to the teeth so they can keep their eyes on the ball which is Taiwan. And PAF must have realized that any usefulness of the F-16 is diminished by having to constantly be paranoid about getting caught operating outside Pakistan or getting sanctioned for parts. F-16 for PAF was like a bad marriage, you only are married out of necessity until you can find something better and J-10C is that something. The real bombshell in New Delhi has nothing to do with J-10C's radar and missile capabilities but that India's endless narrative of F-16 not being allowed by US will be over now, those days are gone now and will completely irrelevant going forward. In my opinion this is even more important than J-10C itself and was the best reason to buy it. This development is the real bombshell news for India and US also, the concept that Pakistan now possesses a potent 4.5 gen air superiority fighter made by a non-western country that must be taken seriously and has no operational restrictions or sanctions about where and where it cannot be used.

There were other great reasons to buy J-10C such as price and the fact that you could buy 4 J-10C for every Rafale and also the fact that with Pakistan making use of Chinese radar and missile systems on top of J-10C, the integration between these 3 packages will be excellent. I think the only reason why US is not more concerned about a hostile and somewhat major country like Pakistan getting a non-western 4.5 gen J-10C vs if Iran, Turkey, NK got something like this is that US wants to believe that J-10C is primarily directed at India and not at US assets which is a probably a correct assessment and really shows the true color of US-India relations and Pentagon snakes not giving a f what happens to New Delhi if they decide to abandon them alone with the wolves in the middle of the night (Afghanistan). But it should also be noted that US could not have done much to stop it even if they wanted to, J-10C doesn't have any western components in it, which is also one of the best reasons to buy it. I think with J-10C it is easy to take for granted that it doesn't have western components but look around and see how lucky we are, this is practically the only 4.5 gen fighter in the world that is actually reliable and uses no western components. India has been struggling with US components in Tejas and Tejas is only 4th gen while Russian reliability issues are well documented. There is a common saying in Chinese military circles that the most reliable Russian fighters are the ones that PLAAF has. I think J-10C is really a testament to how far China has come, really the culmination of everything they have learned and put into a single package, and Pakistan is pretty lucky to be the only country getting access to essentially the best of what China has to offer. I think slowly but surely, the links between China and Pakistan are getting stronger with recent big ticket deals like CRRC HSR and HQ missile defence system, it will be the right side of history to be on as China becomes the dominant power going forward.

 

[Flight of falcon]

From Forbes:

Minister: Pakistan Bought Chinese J-10 Jets To Counter India’s Rafales

On Dec. 29, Pakistani Interior Minister Sheikh Rasheed Ahmed announced the Pakistan Air Force would unveil 25 newly imported “JS-10” jet fighters from China for the Republic Day parade on March 23. These jets, he added, would counter the 36 Dassault Rafale fighters India was receiving from France.

www.forbes.com

 

[Deino]

Can it carry the PL-21?

No

 

[CrazyZ]

then we will under Chinese mercy after USA

Yes, but China has been "all weather ally" for decades. I don't see this changing anytime soon. Chinese technology is catching up to western levels plus they have the most industrial capacity in the world. USA wont sell advanced fighter jets to Pakistan, neither will France or Sweden. Russia may but they have a historic arms partnership with India plus their AESA tech is behind China's.

Best for Pakistan to relay on combo of local arms production supplemented by direct purchases from China. Turkey or GCC may be an option in the future but not currently.

Pakistan Navy was looking to procure some new fighter aircraft but they were asked to buy the Jf17 my the then PM. Still this procurement is open and PN could opt for J10C as well which would compliment the PAF.

I always thought Chinese flankers are the best option for PN due their longer range.