Owaisi : Civil war has begun in India

[hatehs]

living in Nagaland since British times.

Wow 10 billion years of Hindu history in this land. HOW DARE CHRISTIANS COME TO THIS HEARTLAND OF VEDIC KUCHRA

 

[Meengla]

First, Modi and his bunch are as dangerous to India as Jaichand was. He and his pack are steadily destroying India. Since they have no brains, and no skills apart from fomenting riots and oppressing Muslims, Christians and Dalits in every possible way, they do things for electoral gains that are literally crippling the nation.

It is not just communalism, it is the use of communalism for staying in power. So, every time there is an election forthcoming, there is an incident involving either Pakistan (their shorthand for Muslim, therefore to be feared and acted against immediately, in pre-emptive fashion) or a peaceful Indian citizen who happens to pray in a mosque.

Malik comes across surprisingly morally intact, for a member of the BJP. He has never said anything ridiculous or toxic, when he was governor and afterwards. He did not just talk about alienating the 17% of India's citizens, sworn up tax paying citizens to be found in all three branches of the military. He also said that Modi was ignorant of facts on the ground, not in touch with grassroots sentiment, and not available when needed (at the time of the Pulwama incident, he was shooting a film in a national park with Bear Grylls, and was not traceable initially).

Today, as Manipur burns, he is busy electioneering. It is possible that he will lose, although he has run the dirtiest, filthiest campaign that people have seen in independent India (or in colonial India), but has no time to devote to the affairs of state.

Sometimes I feel that some bitter enemy has put the evil eye on us, to get us such a monster to sit on our heads.


Malik was not talking about Manipur, but about Kashmir.

I do agree that the sources you mention are sound sources of information.

Brilliant, my friend, brilliant!
Learn from Pakistan: Using religion for political or geopolitical goals might--just might--give short term gains but that is not good path for long term prosperity and social cohesion. Having said that, I don't know how far Modi has gone in alienating Muslims. I don't pay particular attention to Indian politics. As they say, 'Not my circus, not my monkeys'.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Rani Gaidinliu was a follower of Herala religion. She opposed Christianity.

Indic animists are Hindus. By Hindus I mean followers of Indic religions.

Animists are by no stretch of the imagination Indic. Indic is Hindu (in its three streams), Buddhist, Jain and Sikh. Nothing else, nobody else.

Wow 10 billion years of Hindu history in this land. HOW DARE CHRISTIANS COME TO THIS HEARTLAND OF VEDIC KUCHRA

Watch your language.

I don't know how far Modi has gone in alienating Muslims.

Muslim Indians are far more loyal, more staunch than people realise. I say this based on the frustration and anger expressed by my Muslim friends, who yet remain committed to the secular ideal of an inclusive Indian state.

I am totally committed to their regaining the status that is merely their due, not a gift to be bestowed on them. Starting with the hapless citizens who live in Kashmir. They would not have dared to treat Bengalis that way.

Having said that, I don't know how far Modi has gone in alienating Muslims.

I will send you direct mail to illustrate what people think about him. The example that you will receive is very personal, and is about somebody close to me.

 

[xeuss]

Spot on…I really love his speeches in the parliament as well as in other places when he is not in elections mode…He has a lot of potential to be a Pan Indian leader than always cribbing about Muslim centric politics…But at the end of the day, he is trying to be another politician who cares about Muslims in India..

And what is wrong if there is a politician who cares about Muslims in India?

Do you all want them to be like the mass murderers of Muslims who you elect?

 

[iamnobody]

Animists are by no stretch of the imagination Indic. Indic is Hindu (in its three streams), Buddhist, Jain and Sikh. Nothing else, nobody else.


Watch your language.

I don't agree with you. Then Shaivites and Vaishnavites aren't indic too.

Muslim Indians are far more loyal, more staunch than people realise. I say this based on the frustration and anger expressed by my Muslim friends, who yet remain committed to the secular ideal of an inclusive Indian state.

Muslims can't be secular. Secularism is haram in Islam.

I never met a secular Muslim. Most of them pretend to be secular.

 

[Meengla]

On a serious note, that's just in India due to the missionary movements, no? I have never read about anti-christian sentiments prevalent anywhere else in south asia and the middle east.

The Christian Missionaries in India are working on another eastern Myanmar situation to carve out a Christian nation. Never underestimate the Messianic Zeal and the exclusivism of the three great Abrahamic Religions! India would be clubbed with the Missionary Zeal of the Evangelical Christians of the West should India stray too far from the American agenda. As it is, thanks to Modi's 'Muscular' foreign policy, India faces an openly hostile China and the ever potent Pakistani military.
Don't be surprised to see a 'Rambo' coming to 'rescue' the Christians of Manipur or elsewhere in the Indian northeast one day!!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Please don't take away that credit from us.

On a serious note, that's just in India due to the missionary movements, no? I have never read about anti-christian sentiments prevalent anywhere else in south asia and the middle east.

I am afraid it is one of the main planks of Hindutvavadi scum. Friction in Tamil Nadu, in Andhra Pradesh (comical, because the Chief Minister there is a Christian), not in Telangana so much, in Maharashtra, all over the UP, the burning alive of Graham Stained and his two little children, aged 10 and 7, by a Bajrang Dal activist. Lots of incidents in Karnataka, that has had a BJP government, so, bullying of Muslim girls for wearing a hijab, and destruction of Christian chapels and altars in churches.

I would rather not go into detail. I am not a well person.

 

[PradoTLC]

Abeyy lorooo, we told you not to suck so much RSS dick

 

[Joe Shearer]

I don't agree with you. Then Shaivites and Vaishnavites aren't indic too.

Learn the full facts. Hindus are Saivite, Vaishnavite and Shakta. I note, as a Shakta, what a cavalier way that stream has been dismissed. Why two streams of Hinduism are not Indic is not clear. Do feel free to explain.

Muslims can't be secular. Secularism is haram in Islam.

I never met a secular Muslim. Most of them pretend to be secular.

Do read thoroughly.

Muslims remain committed to the secular ideal of an inclusive state. They are not abandoning their faith, they are loyal to a secular state. Where do you find the contradiction?

There are too many absurd fallacies in your posts.

 

[Meengla]

Since you seem to know a bit about Jinnah, you should know that in the last months of his life, he bitterly regretted partition and the state of affairs in India and in Pakistan. I fault the lower level politicians in the Muslim League, and the Hindu-favouring politicians in the Congress, for having destroyed the chances of the League and the Congress working together. That was the straw that broke the camel's back, when after Jinnah had bludgeoned the rest of the League leadership into accepting the Cabinet Mission Plan, Nehru, under pressure from his colleagues, made an announcement in that infamous press conference on the 10th of July that precipitated Pakistan.

I am not blaming Nehru, although Azad, who was Congress President at the time, bitterly criticised him for making that announcement without any detailed discussion before that. It is just that both sets of lower politicians had locked horns and could not act sensibly.

Just as on PDF the extremists on both sides lock horns and make decent conversations impossible.

Per my understanding, even into late 1930s or early 1940s, Mr. Jinnah was open to some non-Partition way. Perhaps a Confederation of Hindu and Muslim majority regions of Pakistan? But in a speech by Nehru and/or Congress Party, the demands of Mr. Jinnah to give outsized representation to the Muslims of the Subcontinent was soundly rejected. That was a historic blunder. Then Jinnah realized that there was no other route than the Partition.
Nehru was an idealist and made many blunders.

 

[iamnobody]

Learn the full facts. Hindus are Saivite, Vaishnavite and Shakta. I note, as a Shakta, what a cavalier way that stream has been dismissed. Why two streams of Hinduism are not Indic is not clear. Do feel free to explain.

What do you mean by Hindu?

Hinduism was Brahminism in old days.

The Shaivites, Vaishnavites, warkaris, Lingayat etc who did not follow Brahman way of life shouldn't be considered Hindus too.

Add Animist Adivasis of Central India to that list too.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Most of them pretend to be secular.

Not one of them - OK, one exception - claims to be secular as far as adherence to Islam is concerned. That one exception is an atheist.

Their faith is in a secular nation, where the ground is even for citizens of all faiths.

 

[iamnobody]

Do read thoroughly.

Muslims remain committed to the secular ideal of an inclusive state. They are not abandoning their faith, they are loyal to a secular state. Where do you find the contradiction?

There are too many absurd fallacies in your posts.

Secularism is not compatible with Islam.

Secularism mean separation of state and religion. Islam endorses Sharia. Islam and Sharia aren't compatible with each other.

A Muslim can't be secular until he abandons Islam.

Same goes for Christian and Jews.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Per my understanding, even into late 1930s or early 1940s, Mr. Jinnah was open to some non-Partition way. Perhaps a Confederation of Hindu and Muslim majority regions of Pakistan? But in a speech by Nehru and/or Congress Party, the demands of Mr. Jinnah to give outsized representation to the Muslims of the Subcontinent was soundly rejected. That was a historic blunder. Then Jinnah realized that there was no other route than the Partition.
Nehru was an idealist and made many blunders.

My note has the full explanation.

To expand on the points you have made,

1. The non-partition way was the Cabinet Mission Plan. Three 'groups' of provinces, two Muslim-majority, one Hindu-majority, and above the three, working as provinces more or less on the British colonial pattern, one central government with powers to administer defence, international relations and communications (it was not a coincidence that the 1930 Round Table Conference draft treaty of accession to the Indian union by the princes was a mirror of this);
2. It was not a rejection of outsized representation, it was Jinnah's insistence that the delegates to the proposed constituent assembly from the two Muslim provinces should follow strictly the instructions of those provinces;
3. It was not a speech by Nehru, it was a press conference on the 10th of July, 1946;
4. At that press conference, Nehru stated that delegates to the constituent assembly would be free to vote according to their conscience.

That was the trigger point.

This, incidentally, follows the Ayesha Jalal outline, that has been vigorously defended by Yassir Latif Hamdani. Professor Ishtiaq Ahmed differs radically.

 

[Meengla]

Muslims remain committed to the secular ideal of an inclusive state. They are not abandoning their faith, they are loyal to a secular state. Where do you find the contradiction?

You sound correct. I have a large family in India--many first cousins and a brother of my dad--and from interacting with them, I get a feeling that they ARE religious Muslims but not the fanatic types. It is a different matter that they still carry a secret love for Pakistan, but otherwise they are loyal, taxpaying Indian citizen.
And what is so surprising about minorities wanting secularism?? It is a survival tool! Jews are very religious in Israel--politically religious--but are always for secularism and liberalism in the Christianity-dominated West.