Opposition to Islamic Caliphate thread

[Falcon29]

You're going around this forum sticking up the term "Kaffir" like tape onto people!
Just look at yourself man, don't you think you've gone too far here?

I say it with full confidence and I swear by Allah and Quran that these people are kaffirs. I'm tired of giving them special treatment. They clearly stand against Muslims. Anybody that is pro-Israel, opposes Islam as our consitution, supports regimes in region which have crossed all red lines God warned us against, that are busy appeassijg non-Muslims and Israelis here, that call for torturing of Muslims, are 100% Kaffirs.

Apparently some of you people have lost idea of Muslim Ummah because we never experienced it in our lifetime. What we've experincied is era of corruption and hypocrisy. Sahaba and Prophet at the time did not tolerate persecution of Muslims. And they had not tolerance for apostate traitors who want our bloood shed because we support truth and justice. Why should I tolerate these apostates who 've made it clear how hostile they are to us because we stand up for message of Prophet(SAW)? If we abandoned our religion, they would accept us. At same time they claim we stand up for our beliefs for monetary purposes. They repeat a lie so much that their own ignorant people believe it. This is not a case of internal fitnah. These are apostoates backed by our enemies that have same goals of our destruction. They hate your blood , you just haven't seen nothing yet.

I don't need to get permission from Kuffar to tell me what I can or can't do with our Ummah. We will create a Cakiphste no matter what kuffar think or don't think about it. Stop demanding from me that I take into consideration the opinions of kuffar. It's reached a point where we're scared to call a spade a spade. I'm not scared. Other Muslims also shouldn't be. Don't be afraid of the Kuffar.

 

[Frogman]

don't support injustice, in Gaza its unpopular. Everywhere else it isn't. Because Gaza is special land that God blesses and looks after. It is special case. So your freedom of speech debockle is irrelevant. In west you can only speak, but can't end unjust policies . The people who translate their words into action are non Muslims only. Muslims aren't allowed. Your point is moot and invalid.

Whether it's supporting injustice or not is irrelevant, what is relevant is your right to say it. Would support for equal rights for homosexuals or even women in Gaza be popular? No, is it just? yes.

There is no such thing as a special case or special land of blessings, both sides in the Pal-Isr conflict believe god is with them and that they are righteous, both are equally delusional. However, if you were to look in as an outside observer, then you would conclude god was or is with the Israelis since they continue to expand their territory and power at the expense of the pals.

The west (as a generalisation) has democratic processes in place by which you can gain access to legislative bodies, while not taking into account the larger picture that is a lot more than what you get in Gaza. If you are not a member of Hamas or similar groups you will not get a chance to affect policy or legislation at all. No matter how you paint it Gaza is ruled by a kleptocratic dictatorship, special case or not, angels of god or not.

Stop taking your words back, you just advocated torturing someone who says the Shahada. Of course you're cover you use is branding them as terrorists as part of your lawless persecutions against Muslims. I'm not an idiot that's going to whitewash the true meanings of your statements.

My words:-

"If he openly expressed his terrorist supporting views as he does here in an Arab nation he would already be hung upside down by his testicles in a rather dim lit and dirty room."

Merely a statement of truth not a call for torture. If you can not comprehend that then it is not my problem. Nor was there any mention of the shahada or anything of the sort (would I advocate the torture of my parents?).

Whereas the true meanings of my statements are clear, you continue to treat everyone in the forum as if they have some sort of dementia and do not remember your blatant and clear support for terrorist organisations.

If you don't want to be disrespected you better think twice again before calling to torture people who follow Islam. Anyonethat calls for supporting our enemies and denying our right to self determination will be disrespected. Meanwhile, terrorists attack Muslims with bombs /sanctions for exercising their basic rights and you have absolutely nothing to say towards them. Unbelievable.

Er! No!

Those you believe follow Islam are a very select group, namely those you agree with, every one else is irrelevant. You are divisive filled with hatred and outright nasty. Your definition of self determination is a clash of civilisations that has been a part of extremist thoughts for decades and is still being pumped out. I have nothing to prove to you, my views on liberal western intervention in the ME are simply negative as are my views towards Israel, but who cares? I'm still a kafir right? you don't need my support.

I don't know how someone like you calls himself an arab. You have so much hatred towards your brothers who speak your own language and follow your own religion that you abandoned and want to lift your people out of the misery they're going through. And use same arguments our enemies make against us to justify aggression against us. Shame on you.

If you weren't so hostile towards your Muslim and Arab brothers I wouldn't hurt your feelings at all.

I do not have hatred towards anyone. Ask people on the forum I have never expressed bigoted views against any religion, race, gender or denomination you however can not say the same.

Oh Hazzy you can't hurt me even if you put the entirety of your venom in an insult. I'm not gentle I'm just sensible, I could hurt your feelings if I wanted to.

 

[TankMan]

I say it with full confidence and I swear by Allah and Quran that these people are kaffirs.

Allah doesn't need you to call people Kaffir. He can handle them himself. If you have faith in Allah, then trust his judgement.

Look, more Muslims are killed by other Muslims than by apostates or Israelis or Kuffar - we are in no position to do anything about the latter until the former is handled. All this private Jihad and Takfir is nothing more than nails in our own coffin. You love declaring people Kafir but it's a totally wrong approach (to say the least).

The way you talk to people, declare them Kafir, as if you're God himself - nobody wants to listen to you after that. It's not convincing anybody.

You are right - this thread does represent all that's wrong with the Muslim world - anti-Islamic ultra-Liberals on one side and Takfiri Mullah extremists on the other, leaving no middle path for sane Muslims who want to be sane human beings. It's all a jumble of nonsense arguments that end up being used to justify torture and murder.

For God's sake people.

 

[Frogman]

Mind your own business from now on and dint get involved in affairs of Muslims. What you've seen from me is 1% of what I can do to you. I haven't even tried insulting you. I don't get my feelings hurt from lowlife scumbags like you. Otherwise I woukdve quit this forum a long time ago.

Or you're going to do what? Insult me again? No. Muslims are not the only party represented in the Middle East and anything that is relevant to my motherland is relevant to me.

Hazzy you have done all you can, as we say in Egypt gebt akhrak. I haven't even insulted or tried to insult you? How could I hurt your feelings, you're just way too cute.

 

[Falcon29]

Allah doesn't need you to call people Kaffir. He can handle them himself. If you have faith in Allah, then trust his judgement.

Look, more Muslims are killed by other Muslims than by apostates or Israelis or Kuffar - we are in no position to do anything about the latter until the former is handled. All this private Jihad and Takfir is nothing more than nails in our own coffin. You love declaring people Kafir but it's a totally wrong approach (to say the least).

The way you talk to people, declare them Kafir, as if you're God himself - nobody wants to listen to you after that. It's not convincing anybody.

You are right - this thread does represent all that's wrong with the Muslim world - anti-Islamic ultra-Liberals on one side and Takfiri Mullah extremists on the other, leaving no middle path for sane Muslims who want to be sane human beings. It's all a jumble of nonsense arguments that end up being used to justify torture and murder.

For God's sake people.

Listen bro, it's not time for games. These apostates dont care one bit about what we're going through. For them, their enjoyment comes from belittling Muslims and backstabbing them. Everyone I called Kaffir on this thread are all people who openly pride themselves in being atheist. And this stage in our time, it's gotten to a point where we won't tolerate no more oppression by Kaffirs and apostates. No more pansy games with them. We should declare them what they are and change rules of their dirty game. I've done nothing wrong here, there's only outrage because non Muslims and apostates have criminalized supporting basic rights of Muslim people.

 

[gangsta_rap]

Stop demanding from me that I take into consideration the opinions of kuffar. It's reached a point where we're scared to call a spade a spade.

You are a saint sent to correct us all Hazzy-Falcon, you truly are!!

 

[Falcon29]

You are a saint sent to correct us all Hazzy-Falcon, you truly are!!

Perfectly acceptable to send a message to an Kaffir. You don't realize Kaffirs have declared war on you for everything you stand for. They have a genocidal military plan ready to be implemented against us once Sisi falls. Don't wait till that time to realize it. I don't tolerate Kaffirs bullying of Muslim Ummah not on internet nor in person.

 

[TankMan]

Listen bro, it's not time for games. These apostates dont care one bit about what we're going through. For them, their enjoyment comes from belittling Muslims and backstabbing them. Everyone I called Kaffir on this thread are all people who openly pride themselves in being atheist. And this stage in our time, it's gotten to a point where we won't tolerate no more oppression by Kaffirs and apostates. No more pansy games with them. We should declare them what they are and change rules of their dirty game. I've done nothing wrong here, there's only outrage because non Muslims and apostates have criminalized supporting basic rights of Muslim people.

I'm not suggesting games. I'm suggesting strategy and decency. You know you are right about your arguments, then why use tactics like name-calling and insults? Prophet Muhammad never did that, and he had direct knowledge from God about who was Kafir and he was directly oppressed by said Kuffar - yet his conduct was honorable.

As for the strategy part; some consolidation of forces, along with unity, is required. Otherwise we can't do anything. We can't go against any oppression when we are busy fighting eachother over petty issues. The best way of fighting is improving ourselves. That's the greatest Jihad. When we're better ourselves, we can fight oppression and do justice better.

Read the Quran and listen to its advice, for example:
And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend. [41:34]

Seriously, that is some great advice. A decent approach will create allies, devoted friends, while an aggressive and offensive approach alone will create more enmity, even among Muslims themselves.

 

[Frogman]

Listen bro, it's not time for games. These apostates dont care one bit about what we're going through. For them, their enjoyment comes from belittling Muslims and backstabbing them. Everyone I called Kaffir on this thread are all people who openly pride themselves in being atheist. And this stage in our time, it's gotten to a point where we won't tolerate no more oppression by Kaffirs and apostates. No more pansy games with them. We should declare them what they are and change rules of their dirty game. I've done nothing wrong here, there's only outrage because non Muslims and apostates have criminalized supporting basic rights of Muslim people.

Perfectly acceptable to send a message to an Kaffir. You don't realize Kaffirs have declared war on you for everything you stand for. They have a genocidal military plan ready to be implemented against us once Sisi falls. Don't wait till that time to realize it. I don't tolerate Kaffirs bullying of Muslim Ummah not on internet nor in person.

I do not pride myself in being an atheist, I simply am one. You however take pride in your religion and continue to abuse its key teachings and tenants, those of peace, compassion, and mercy.

Your rhetoric continually fuels the fires of islamophobes and to an extent proves them right in their wrong perception of Islam. You are doing your own religion a disservice without realising.

Atheists are not a significant part of the middle east nor are they prevalent in its political establishments. Unfortunately, the large share of oppression is self inflicted by fellow Muslims.

You can blame us, you can rile against us, you can marginalize us but in the end it is you who is divisive and outright nasty.

 

[Falcon29]

I'm not suggesting games. I'm suggesting strategy and decency. You know you are right about your arguments, then why use tactics like name-calling and insults? Prophet Muhammad never did that, and he had direct knowledge from God about who was Kafir and he was directly oppressed by said Kuffar - yet his conduct was honorable.

As for the strategy part; some consolidation of forces, along with unity, is required. Otherwise we can't do anything. We can't go against any oppression when we are busy fighting eachother over petty issues. The best way of fighting is improving ourselves. That's the greatest Jihad. When we're better ourselves, we can fight oppression and do justice better.

Read the Quran and listen to its advice, for example:
And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend. [41:34]

Seriously, that is some great advice. A decent approach will create allies, devoted friends, while an aggressive and offensive approach alone will create more enmity, even among Muslims themselves.

I am well knowledgeable on my religion. I am even more knowledgeable on the enemies of my religion and their thought processes. Apparently you fear I'm going to attack people here. Even though I told you I don't believe in the ways of our enemies. Attacking people in foreign land is an act of aggression. I don't support aggression, that's what enemies of God support. I support the self determination of the Muslim people. Realise the difference here. There's no reason why any more war should occur. But this is all in the hands of the Kuffar. We aren't attacking them, they're attacking us. We aren't occupying their land, they're occupying ours through use of force. Struggling is prescribed to protect our selves from these terrorists. They only understand one language. And the terrorists who occupy our land will pay a heavy price.

You're more worried about your image. Yet you don't realize the perception of Kuffar of your religion is not something dictated by what they claim. It's just another tool they use to demoralize Muslims as part of their psychological warfare against you. They enjoy seeing you depressed and afraid.

 

[haviZsultan]

@Falcon29 you fail to understand the policies of our ancestors which ruled these lands. Do you know the ideal of ijtehad? It used to be a system a manner of debate between peoples. Scholars from different schools of thought or even non muslim scholars and philosophers sat together and debated. They didn't declare each other kaffir nor did they believe that their view was supreme. They started the debate with "I may be wrong but so and so." So everyone can make a mistake.

People never called each other Kaffir and then declared they were out of the religious fold in order to wage war against them. This seems very much like what the Taliban and the ISIS do.

The prophet Muhammed also stated this. "Do not (become infidels) revert to disbelief after me by STRIKING THE NECKS (cutting the throats) of one another (killing each other)."

And it is exactly what we are doing today. Insulting and abusing other countries can only result in negative feelings and hostility between the said nations. When you feel other muslim countries are slaves do not say it. Do you remember the treaty of Hudaybah. It was a peace deal signed between Mecca and Medina. Generally the Muslims felt it was abdicating to Mecca, but the Prophet described it as a great victory for muslims.

I think this is the basis on which many countries maintain ties with the US. When you are weaker than them, their technology vastly superior, their war planes tougher and their infantry mechanized... you can't beat them and have to rely on them. That is why you should wait for God to intervene through the Mehdi. And trust me even the Mehdi is not going to oppress anyone. In fact his first target will be kharijite terrorism which is eating muslim land from the inside.

Also remember that Islam never spread through tyranny and violence. It spread through the message of peace. Slaves were set free upon conversion. Muslims protected the Christians and Jews. There was a time when we dominated everything, but it was through policies which we fail to understand today.

 

[Falcon29]

I do not pride myself in being an atheist, I simply am one. You however take pride in your religion and continue to abuse its key teachings and tenants, those of peace, compassion, and mercy.

Your rhetoric continually fuels the fires of islamophobes and to an extent proves them right in their wrong perception of Islam. You are doing your own religion a disservice without realising.

Atheists are not a significant part of the middle east nor are they prevalent in its political establishments. Unfortunately, the large share of oppression is self inflicted by fellow Muslims.

You can blame us, you can rile against us, you can marginalize us but in the end it is you who is divisive and outright nasty.

Yes, we're nasty for standing up for our basic rights. Tell me something I haven't heard already, Kafir.

 

[Banu Hashim]

Ok, let's presume that 90% of all Muslims wanted a real Muslim caliphate to return tomorrow.

Who should rule then? From where? For how long? Would Muslims even agree with each other on those 3 crucial questions? I very much doubt this.

For now I think that Makkah and Madinah should have a position similar to the Vatican but still be a part of Saudi Arabia as they are ancient Hijazi cities just like they were before the birth of Prophet Muhammad (saws).

Also the Muslim world will never be a threat to the West as long as the gap in economy, science etc. is as big as it is currently.

When the Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid etc. caliphates were the biggest empires in the world they were not only renowned for their military strength and religious zeal but also for being ahead of most others in terms of science and economy.

Al-Baghdadi has already declared a caliphate in Syria and Iraq. Look how that is going.

 

[Zarvan]

This thread will contain a list of hypocritices in Islamic Ummah who oppose freedom and victory for the Muslim peoples. I will need Asian members to help me update this thread. There will be 3 lists. Those for, undecied,and against the Caliphate. It's closer approaching that the enemies of God are showing their true colors and hating us for no reason other than us being Muslim. They oppose our sovereignty, they oppose our prosperity, they oppose us having freedom. But many Muslims also oppose this and have cooperated in unjust agendas such as cooperation with Israel or fighting for brutal regimes. We all know Israel, US , EU oppose Caliphate. For Latin nations, I see them as uninvolved in this affairs. China and Russia I haven't made up mind if they oppose it or not. So this thread will only mention list of collaborators, pimps , secularists in our Ummah who oppose an Islamic Caliphate. If you wish to disagree, tag me in post and in civilized manner give reasons why you disagree. The past events in ME have exposed the hypocritices in their war against Muslim children and peoples . And it's approaching in near future where they officially declare a violent war on God's followers. I think it's time we start informing each other and also treat these scum who claim to be Muslims as our enemies.

@Rakan.SA @dessert_eagle @Zarvan @Indos @Pakistani shaheens @others

For:
-Muslim Brotherhood
-Hamas
-Palestinian Islamic Jihad
-Other Palestinian Islamic Factions
-Lebanese Abdullah Azzam Brigades
-Lebanese Salafist movement
-Nusra Front
-ISIS
-Islamic Front of Syria
-Other Islamic factions in Syria
-Libyan Dawn
-Taliban of Afghanistan
-Somalian Islamic Factions
-Chechen Islamic factions
-converts to Islam from EU
-(Insert others)
-Kasmir Islamic factions
-Malaysia Islamic factions
-Bangladesh Islamic factions

Undecided:
-Saudi Arabian government
-Turkish government
-Pakistani government
-Qatar ?
-Houthis
Against:

-UAE
-Iran
-Iraq
-Hezbollah
-Egyptian government
-Iraqi Shia militias
-Assad regime
-Kuwait
-Lebanese government
-Every other Arab government
-Turkish secular movement

ISIS has to be eliminated but buy Muslim forces not USA and NATO there intervention will only cause damage and destroy the cause. As for idiot Assad he has to be taken out as soon as possible, because that brutal leader can't be allowed to kill sunnis in Syria and destroy one of the most beautiful Muslim countries. Muslim governments needs to throw away cloak of impotency and give time limit to Israel either it solves Palestine issue in certain time limit or face war and continue war until its wiped out from map of the earth, and also give same warning to India for Kashmir and until than support Hamas and Mujhahideen in Kashmir. Finally USA needs to be told to get lost from Muslim world and Muslim countries and than Sunni Block needs to sign a joint defence pact led by Turkey and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan that make sure any attack on any Muslim country will be responded by all. Last but not the least Muslim Governments need to implement Shariah laws other wise we would never be able to defeat groups like ISIS or TTP or Jandullah.

 

[Falcon29]

@Falcon29 you fail to understand the policies of our ancestors which ruled these lands. Do you know the ideal of ijtehad? It used to be a system a manner of debate between peoples. Scholars from different schools of thought or even non muslim scholars and philosophers sat together and debated. They didn't declare each other kaffir nor did they believe that their view was supreme. They started the debate with "I may be wrong but so and so." So everyone can make a mistake.

People never called each other Kaffir and then declared they were out of the religious fold in order to wage war against them. This seems very much like what the Taliban and the ISIS do.

The prophet Muhammed also stated this. "Do not (become infidels) revert to disbelief after me by STRIKING THE NECKS (cutting the throats) of one another (killing each other)."

And it is exactly what we are doing today. Insulting and abusing other countries can only result in negative feelings and hostility between the said nations. When you feel other muslim countries are slaves do not say it. Do you remember the treaty of Hudaybah. It was a peace deal signed between Mecca and Medina. Generally the Muslims felt it was abdicating to Mecca, but the Prophet described it as a great victory for muslims.

I think this is the basis on which many countries maintain ties with the US. When you are weaker than them, their technology vastly superior, their war planes tougher and their infantry mechanized... you can't beat them and have to rely on them. That is why you should wait for God to intervene through the Mehdi. And trust me even the Mehdi is not going to oppress anyone. In fact his first target will be kharijite terrorism which is eating muslim land from the inside.

Also remember that Islam never spread through tyranny and violence. It spread through the message of peace. Slaves were set free upon conversion. Muslims protected the Christians and Jews. There was a time when we dominated everything, but it was through policies which we fail to understand today.

I don't believe in Shia hadith on Mahdi. And I don't compare time to our time which is much worse. We don't have anyone to guide us. And neither am I naive to believe that when Mahdi emerges we won't be attacked. Actually worst war ever to take place will occur when he does.

Ok, let's presume that 90% of all Muslims wanted a real Muslim caliphate to return tomorrow.

Who should rule then? From where? For how long? Would Muslims even agree with each other on those 3 crucial questions? I very much doubt this.

For now I think that Makkah and Madinah should have a position similar to the Vatican but still be a part of Saudi Arabia as they are ancient Hijazi cities just like they were before the birth of Prophet Muhammad (saws).

Also the Muslim world will never be a threat to the West as long as the gap in economy, science etc. is as big as it is currently.

When the Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid etc. caliphates were the biggest empires in the world they were not only renowned for their military strength and religious zeal but also for being ahead of most others in terms of science and economy.

Al-Baghdadi has already declared a caliphate in Syria and Iraq. Look how that is going.

Saudi Arabia can lead an caliphate. This is not concern to me who leads it as long he's a Muslim who supports all our plights unless they're unjust or un Islamic.