Opinion: Pakistan must become an authoritarian state to progress

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Pakistan only deserves to be a monarchy under the House of Sharif. All hail the king or maybe the queen these days.

This is what has happened to Pakistan so far when Pakistan Army Chiefs tried to be smart:

1963 - General Ayub Khan swapped Shaksgam Valley.
1971 - General Yahya Khan lost half of the country in just 13-days.
1984 - General Zia-ul-Haq lost Siachin Glacier.
1999 / 2006 - General (convicted traitor) Pervez Musharraf lost Kargil / Waziristan.
2011 - General Pervez Ashfaq Kiyani: OBL raid.
2019 - General Qamar Javed Bajwa: India annexed Kashmir.

This is what happened during PM Nawaz Sharif's third tenure:

2015 - Pakistan's seabed territory increased by 50,000 sq km, from 200 nautical miles to 350 nautical miles.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

1984 - General Zia-ul-Haq lost Siachin Glacier.

This is what happened under Gen. Zia's tenure.

• Nawaz Sharif was spawned.

 

[Black.Mamba]

This is what has happened to Pakistan so far when Pakistan Army Chiefs tried to be smart:

1963 - General Ayub Khan swapped Shaksgam Valley.
1971 - General Yahya Khan lost half of the country in just 13-days.
1984 - General Zia-ul-Haq lost Siachin Glacier.
1999 / 2006 - General (convicted traitor) Pervez Musharraf lost Kargil / Waziristan.
2011 - General Pervez Ashfaq Kiyani: OBL raid.
2019 - General Qamar Javed Bajwa: India annexed Kashmir.

This is what happened during PM Nawaz Sharif's third tenure:

2015 - Pakistan's seabed territory increased by 50,000 sq km, from 200 nautical miles to 350 nautical miles.

Main bhi tou yehe keh raha hoon bhai.
Bus Nawaz sharif for life after that Mariam and then her son. We only deserve Sharif's after all we are all Nooni - toons.
Btw humaray supreme leader kub tak wapis ayeen gaye? 9 mahenay pura nahi huay abhi tak?

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Main bhi tou yehe keh raha hoon bhai.
Bus Nawaz sharif for life after that Mariam and then her son. We only deserve Sharif's after all we are all Nooni - toons.

Better than dollarised traitors.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

On a serious note Pakistan cannot become a authoritarian state because it is too diverse, too divided and disunited. However imagine if each province broke away. They would be fertile for authoritarian rule.

• Punjab would either came under a military dictatorial regime or Nawaz Sharif dictatorship with near absolute powers.
• 
  
• Khyber Pakhtunkwa would by now come under sway of Imran Khan or another hard man.
• 
  
• Sindh would fall to absolute rule of the Bhutto family who probably would declare a Emirate of Sindh which would led to civil war against the minorities who would run north to KP/Punjab, west Balochistan and to India.

 

[Yankee-stani]

On a serious note Pakistan cannot become a authoritarian state because it is too diverse, too divided and disunited. However imagine if each province broke away. They would be fertile for authoritarian rule.

• Punjab would either came under a military dictatorial regime or Nawaz Sharif dictatorship with near absolute powers.
• 
  
• Khyber Pakhtunkwa would by now come under sway of Imran Khan or another hard man.
• 
  
• Sindh would fall to absolute rule of the Bhutto family who probably would declare a Emirate of Sindh which would led to civil war against the minorities who would run north to KP/Punjab, west Balochistan and to India.

Turkey,Russia,China,Iran,Indonesia,etc have large ethnic minorities yet still are able to have a semblance of authoritarian rule or had in the past the problem with Pakistan is no one wants to push a single identity discourse its basically Poor Mans Yugoslavia

 

[Yankee-stani]

Turkey,Russia,China,Iran,Indonesia,etc have large ethnic minorities yet still are able to have a semblance of authoritarian rule or had in the past the problem with Pakistan is no one wants to push a single identity discourse its basically Poor Mans Yugoslavia

Expanding on Yugoslavia the country was massively de centralized in its socialist era in fact after 1974 de centralization increased only guy to keep it together was Tito but with him gone country fell apart a decade later evebthough country was quite wealthy in the Eastern Bloc,large army/military industrial complex and decent literacy rates Pakistan on the other hand much poorer,large army with nukes I am not saying or suggesting a breakup of Pakistan but it's a warning if things don't get in order

 

[Black.Mamba]

Turkey,Russia,China,Iran,Indonesia,etc have large ethnic minorities yet still are able to have a semblance of authoritarian rule or had in the past the problem with Pakistan is no one wants to push a single identity discourse its basically Poor Mans Yugoslavia

It is deliberately kept this way, that is why we often hear narratives of the same "ummah" so that we can identify ourselves more with the rest and less within ourselves. Then reminding us through different means and narratives how we are in debt to the arabs as Islam came to this region because of them, or we are actually Turkic or the Afghans because they came and saved us from the devil. We are everything else but Pakistani. For last 70 years we have been roaming around like headless chickens, not having any identity of our own. Both internal and external powers like to keep the masses this way to get what they need, when they need it. They play both the religion as well as the ethnicity card, knowing the day we will realise that we are Pakistani first and anything else later will be the end of their status quo. Until then lets all sing the sindhi, pathan, punjabi, balochi, shia, sunni, hindu, muslim, urdu, english, saraiki, pashto songs but not the song of Pakistan.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Turkey,Russia,China,Iran,Indonesia,etc have large ethnic minorities yet still are able to have a semblance of authoritarian rule or had in the past the problem with Pakistan is no one wants to push a single identity discourse its basically Poor Mans Yugoslavia

Succinctly said. 100% spot on. All the countries you mention have minorities but all have one ethnic group around which the countries are welded. Take Turkey. It might have Kurds, Arabs, Circassian etc but the Turkic idenity has been so foisted on the rest that it leaves no space for dissent.

Take Russia. again it might have minorities but Russia makes no apology for being a Russian state. Again same applies for Iran where Fars are the defining frame of the country.

In Pakistan there is no such thing as strong, unified identity but a vague notion of Islam which does not help to create any strong national identity as it is religion of 1.5 billion people spread across 40 countries. It is hardly Pakistan's property.

So the result is all groups in the country behave like minorities and where identity is frowned on but larger Islamic, trans-national notions of ummahg are nurtured. Result weak, fragmented country. Instead of strong government you see coalitions built on weak conveergences. Those who run the country try ruling with stability of a guy running while juggling. More thought goes into the juggle then ruling. Thus not much gets done.

All the countries you mention have minorities but all have one ethnic group around which the countries are welded. Take Turkey. It might have Kurds, Arabs, Circassian etc but the Turkic idenity has been so foisted on the rest that it leaves no space for dissent.

In Pakistan's case instead of being welded to something unique and tied to the country Islam a religion has been used. As this is a amorphous, global and universal concept it does little to create a strong, central, unified national Pakistan identity.

• If Karachiwallahs can see Indian Muslims as their brothers
• if Peshwar can see Afghan Muslim as their brothers
• if Lahoriwala can see Arab Muslims aas their brothers
• etc

you can see the recipe for disaster. Pakistan rarely figures on it's own.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

It is deliberately kept this way, that is why we often hear narratives of the same "ummah" so that we can identify ourselves more with the rest and less within ourselves. Then reminding us through different means and narratives how we are in debt to the arabs as Islam came to this region because of them, or we are actually Turkic or the Afghans because they came and saved us from the devil. We are everything else but Pakistani. For last 70 years we have been roaming around like headless chickens, not having any identity of our own. Both internal and external powers like to keep the masses this way to get what they need, when they need it. They play both the religion as well as the ethnicity card, knowing the day we will realise that we are Pakistani first and anything else later will be the end of their status quo. Until then lets all sing the sindhi, pathan, punjabi, balochi, shia, sunni, hindu, muslim, urdu, english, saraiki, pashto songs but not the song of Pakistan.

Great post. Cannot fault it for one word.

@Yankee-stani read this.

 

[Yankee-stani]

It is deliberately kept this way, that is why we often hear narratives of the same "ummah" so that we can identify ourselves more with the rest and less within ourselves. Then reminding us through different means and narratives how we are in debt to the arabs as Islam came to this region because of them, or we are actually Turkic or the Afghans because they came and saved us from the devil. We are everything else but Pakistani. For last 70 years we have been roaming around like headless chickens, not having any identity of our own. Both internal and external powers like to keep the masses this way to get what they need, when they need it. They play both the religion as well as the ethnicity card, knowing the day we will realise that we are Pakistani first and anything else later will be the end of their status quo. Until then lets all sing the sindhi, pathan, punjabi, balochi, shia, sunni, hindu, muslim, urdu, english, saraiki, pashto songs but not the song of Pakistan.

I worry a lot about Pakistan and where its going Pak is very lucky these last 70 years but luck is one thing propping nukes and army is fine but dont stoop yourselves like the Indians who have this same mindset Nukes are an massive insurance but not ends to means Pakistan needs to form a united identity I say two main groups are the Punjabi and Pasthuns why cant Pakistan use the two groups as the "main one"

Succinctly said. 100% spot on. All the countries you mention have minorities but all have one ethnic group around which the countries are welded. Take Turkey. It might have Kurds, Arabs, Circassian etc but the Turkic idenity has been so foisted on the rest that it leaves no space for dissent.

Take Russia. again it might have minorities but Russia makes no apology for being a Russian state. Again same applies for Iran where Fars are the defining frame of the country.

In Pakistan there is no such thing as strong, unified identity but a vague notion of Islam which does not help to create any strong national identity as it is religion of 1.5 billion people spread across 40 countries. It is hardly Pakistan's property.

So the result is all groups in the country behave like minorities and where identity is frowned on but larger Islamic, trans-national notions of ummahg are nurtured. Result weak, fragmented country. Instead of strong government you see coalitions built on weak conveergences. Those who run the country try ruling with stability of a guy running while juggling. More thought goes into the juggle then ruling. Thus not much gets done.

View attachment 712615
In Pakistan's case instead of being welded to something unique and tied to the country Islam a religion has been used. As this is a amorphous, global and universal concept it does little to create a strong, central, unified national Pakistan identity.

• If Karachiwallahs can see Indian Muslims as their brothers
• if Peshwar can see Afghan Muslim as their brothers
• if Lahoriwala can see Arab Muslims aas their brothers
• etc

you can see the recipe for disaster. Pakistan rarely figures on it's own.

Great post. Cannot fault it for one word.

@Yankee-stani read this.

its quite spot on

 

[Black.Mamba]

Great post. Cannot fault it for one word.

@Yankee-stani read this.

I tried having this conversation in another thread but it was getting off-topic and you can read the rest, maybe we can invite them and have a discussion because this thread is suitable for this debate. It is about time we start having this discussion who we really are.

Here was my post:
I know it irks a lot of members here and in general Pakistani's as well but instead of importing heroes from other Arab, Turk or Central Asian regions when will be start honouring our heroes, the warriors and people of our land or at least the people who have been instrumental to us, Pakistan or this land at least.

This false bravado "we ruled or took over constantinople........" Nope we never fought, ruled or took over constantinople, it is an achievement of someone else not ours, they should boast about it was not us. We should honour our heroes. Rashid Minhas, Lalak Jan or Aziz Bhatti are far bigger heroes for us than Sultan fateeh can ever be.

The contributions of Władysław Turowicz to PAF and Pakistan are far far greater than those Mamluk rulers. Similarly Ranjeet Singh should be our hero as compared to those afghan invaders.

We all have witnessed the rise of Ertugurl in Pakistan, Believe me our history and the history of the present day Pakistan is no less than any Ertugurl, Mamluk or Mehmet. The sooner we accept it, honour it the earlier we will rise as a nation. Relying on the achievements of others or borrowed history will not take us anywhere. Borrowed history is like borrowed money, it is not an asset just a liability.

PAF Squadrons - re(naming) Petition

Though this is a very sensitive topic, but to lighten the mood, we should take some time to give our views and raise some questions in regard to the names of our Squadrons in the Air Force. Q. Why the hell are there Two Squadrons named: Sherdils (Aerobatics & No. 19)? Q. Why do the Sherdils...

defence.pk

@TheSnakeEatingMarkhur @TNT @wasileo80

 

[Yankee-stani]

I tried having this conversation in another thread but it was getting off-topic and you can read the rest, maybe we can invite them and have a discussion because this thread is suitable for this debate. It is about time we start having this discussion who we really are.

Here was my post:
I know it irks a lot of members here and in general Pakistani's as well but instead of importing heroes from other Arab, Turk or Central Asian regions when will be start honouring our heroes, the warriors and people of our land or at least the people who have been instrumental to us, Pakistan or this land at least.

This false bravado "we ruled or took over constantinople........" Nope we never fought, ruled or took over constantinople, it is an achievement of someone else not ours, they should boast about it was not us. We should honour our heroes. Rashid Minhas, Lalak Jan or Aziz Bhatti are far bigger heroes for us than Sultan fateeh can ever be.

The contributions of Władysław Turowicz to PAF and Pakistan are far far greater than those Mamluk rulers. Similarly Ranjeet Singh should be our hero as compared to those afghan invaders.

We all have witnessed the rise of Ertugurl in Pakistan, Believe me our history and the history of the present day Pakistan is no less than any Ertugurl, Mamluk or Mehmet. The sooner we accept it, honour it the earlier we will rise as a nation. Relying on the achievements of others or borrowed history will not take us anywhere. Borrowed history is like borrowed money, it is not an asset just a liability.

PAF Squadrons - re(naming) Petition

Though this is a very sensitive topic, but to lighten the mood, we should take some time to give our views and raise some questions in regard to the names of our Squadrons in the Air Force. Q. Why the hell are there Two Squadrons named: Sherdils (Aerobatics & No. 19)? Q. Why do the Sherdils...

defence.pk

Central Asia and the Caucasus are cool regions to explore but Pakistanis larping at these Soviet created stans who chug Vodka/Georgian wine all the time only got their independence in like 1991/1992 is funny as hell but at same time sad I noticed this is more recent had Central Asia stayed in the reformed USSR no Pakistani would care lol

*and PS I have met Central Asians and Caucuasians here in NY we have large Russian speaking areas here in Queens and Brooklyn they are strangers to me rather than "brother" lol

 

[Black.Mamba]

I worry a lot about Pakistan and where its going Pak is very lucky these last 70 years but luck is one thing propping nukes and army is fine but dont stoop yourselves like the Indians who have this same mindset Nukes are an massive insurance but not ends to means Pakistan needs to form a united identity I say two main groups are the Punjabi and Pasthuns why cant Pakistan use the two groups as the "main one"

In my opinion the Nukes insurance only comes into play with regards to India for a more conventional oriented conflict. They identity or the social fabric conflict we are discussing and which of-course is equally exploited by India and some other not so friendly counties as well, the only insurance we have against it is a strong Military. Numerous attempts through various methods are made on regular basis to defame them but generally the masses still hold onto it and that is the only insurance policy for us.

The problem I foresee is that we have no fail safe, there is no backup or any other force nor factor that will hold our social fabric in place. Imagine that our military becomes something that of Iran's or Iraqs, Libya's or even Egypts what will be happening? All it takes is one serious war or a series of blunders that can lead to such place. We will be having saudi sympathiser, then another lot relating to Iran, then another one running behind the turks and then the Nawaz Sharif type in favour of India "we have always be one..... I don't understand where this line/border came in between". Imagine he is the three time PM of Pakistan and he does not even know why Pakistan was created and yet he was and some what ruling us and our minds. The pakhtoon, sindhi, balochi, punjabi, urdu speaking, english speaking are yet to come into the picture.

 

[Aspen]

Imran Khan is out. Look at all the people who said have faith in democracy. Look where we are now.