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Operation Rah-e-Nijat (South Waziristan)

Yeah but it makes me cry when I feel abt our politicians..........they never did and nither they would ever cared for that single drop of blood.
They already destroyed our country from one end (Economy) coz they ever hav their own intrests.

Inshallah soon we will see peace but we will keep watching faces of these devil politicians.

Well bro, have to agree with you on this. Its really the dilemma of our country. Infact some of the Political parties helped these fiends in Past and still are doing so. Those who call US evil and there children study there.

But Pakistan is founded to survive forever. I hope one day those politicians might notice these sacrifices.

KIT Out:pakistan:
 
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Yeah but it makes me cry when I feel abt our politicians..........they never did and nither they would ever cared for that single drop of blood.
They already destroyed our country from one end (Economy) coz they ever hav their own intrests.

Inshallah soon we will see peace but we will keep watching faces of these devil politicians.

we have a very poor class of politicians. there is not doubt in it. but i think we did not allow democracy to flourish in this country. civilians and army rotates here. a military takeover sends everything back to square one. if we let the system continue i am quite sure the system will throw out the rotten eggs. new faces, and parties will emerge. its best for army and country to stay out of it. Army shall work on its professionalism. we should at least respect for the high offices like the president and prime minister. they may be corrupt but tell who is not in the current lot or in the past. we also have seen many of these problems started during military takeovers. my appeal is to be patient and let the system continue. with stability, and peace economy will grow. people will get education and media will mature and help create awareness. one thing more, as democracy is still very new, i wont mind army interfering in very crucial issues. we are not yet like Europe or America. that will take time.
 
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No big deal Khan G if we get some of our men out of Eastern front. Western front is a hot shot for now. Needs full emphasis. Once this threat is over than India isn't going anywhere and by the way India has not been inducting their ***** from eastern borders but from western borders. So if we are moving to western from eastern, the objective is still same, **** the enemy.

What u say?

KIT Out

Fully agreed, that's what i tried to tell our takfiri TTP sympathizer.
 
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Also, last time around, the IDPs were screened before they came in. But I agree, the threat remains, and I am sure the military has thought of that possibility as well. The thing is, we are not trying to wipe out Taleban from the entire country, because it's impossible to do that. We are trying to destroy their HQ, command and control networks, so that they may become incapacitated for the most part. The clean-up of Taleban-ism will take years, maybe even decades, so if a few foot soldiers of the Taleban escape, they can't do much damage without any leadership.

Once PA moves in & makes the TTP on the run, then they can raise the capability of the locals & will get a lot of cooperation from the locals in identifying the TTP guys. Same was done in Swat, once Army moved in, cleared the area, locals started to come back & hell of intelligence started to go the PA way, when militants disguised as IDPs came back, PA started to pick them up one by one & many were captured even in the IDP camps. The govt has the registration data of IDPs & they can now very well track them, many after seeing their comrades captured either started to give themselves up or are on the run changing places after places.

Hope PA uses a locals heart wining strategy & does not let the TTP grow again. As you said once TTP leadership & safe heavens are destroyed then their ability to strike will be reduced to low levels & with passage of time can be slowly finished, but for that Afghanistan situation has to get better & US has to leave.
 
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Regarding the current situation, i have this much to say.

In the darkest of times there are somethings which can have a positive effect as well...
Pakistan Army is becoming much more tough and battle ready than it was at any given time in its history...
Officers who have been to battlegrounds and have performed with valor and diligence are being promoted...the skill set is being enhanced...
These terrorists are making us stronger...our Army and Air force are getting crucial battle experience...

In the long run this experience and this hardening of our formations will hold true against any enemy who attacks us, internal or external.
Experience alone is one of the most important aspects of war...

So in this i think we should not be afraid that we are compromising on eastern border, worst comes to worse, if we are attacked on eastern border, we shall use a lot of weapons we cannot use against TTP...we are not that insecure on the eastern border...especially once we weigh the threat posed by TTP...
The current Army has now many commanders with active battlefield experience, it has taken time but they have become more experienced and past failures have taught them what not to do...

When i interact with my friends and family serving in the forces, there is an air of confidence and grit about them, they are battle veterans now.

May Allah give us victory over these terrorists and may this fight for Pakistan and its people renew the spirit of this nation

All Green,

These tribels are well trained fighters, most of them got gurrilla training in Russian war , they have complete advantage over PA , also have anti craft guns , they have capability to continue war for ten or more years .

PA dont have stamina to contniue war for than 3 weeks , they will play bull fight and when they will see now PA is tired they will encircle our army.

We have many recent examples Israel-labenon war, Israel Gaza war, Wana war 2003-2004.

Better we find any political solution of conflict.:agree:
 
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Dear Taimikhan:

That was excellent and highly informative post. Very well researched!!.

My key concern is here:
“”If you remember in 2001 crises, the whole army was nearly mobilized in 2 weeks time, even the far flung formations of Quetta & Peshawar reached the borders””.

In a future crisis Pak Army may not have the flexibility to move formations from Swat, Bajaur, and Waziristan to the Eastern border.

First of all we have currently no problems with India, when the time will come, we sure will do something, as in the wake of mumbai attacks, PA did shift majority of the forces from these area.

Also remember that FC elements, Bajaur Scouts, Chitral Scouts, and Tochi Scouts were deployed in the Northern areas during the 1971 war. Such a backup may not be available in a future conflict.

There are now 14 or so FC elements, many of them raised after 71, the size of these elements increased considerably. The size of PA has grown compared to 71, we had 100,000 troops in East Pakistan. The number of Rangers has increased, FC Baluchistan increased. Its different then 71. Plus looking at the current situation & as future projection PA would have raised many new units in the past few years to correct the imbalance if any arises.

Situation of Army Aviation is cause for serious concern. The aircrew issues can probably be resolved through aggressive induction / training in 2-3 years. Fleet utilization profile of Mi-17’s, Bell-412, AH-1’s in this phoney war is such that fatigue cycles are accumulating like hell. The AH-1 fleet is by now almost useless for sustained anti armor operations against India. We have been just too meek and undemanding to our customer (USA). It would make sense to demand at least 100 AH-1 and possible AH-64.

As i said, the size of PA aviation has increased many fold, they are not stupid to be utilizing 100% of their strength in this current operations, they know we have India on the side, they would be keeping the required strength needed if in case something goes wrong with India. But if you still wish to think that PA aviation is doomed, can't stop you.


“”Come on yaar itnaa bhi stupid & underestimate naa karo PA ko””
I don’t think PA is stupid. It is just a bit too JAZBATI in carrying out its US assigned duty. As for foresight and planning PA has not done terribly well. Please read this article by Air Cdr (R) Kaiser Tufail:
Aeronaut: Kargil Conflict and Pakistan Air Force

There is no need to bring Kargil in this, as PAF had no role to play in Kargil, that is why they were left out of the initial planning, as it was to be just a ground war in one specific area, not a full fledged war. The more elements had been involved in the planning, the more chances of leakage would have been there, ruining the surprise element. But personally kargil was uncalled for, no need was there for such a misadventure. Both these things are different, plus in this war, PAF is doing a pretty good job & a pretty good role too. Joint coordination. Armies learn with experiences.

"It is just a bit too JAZBATI in carrying out its US assigned duty."

My 7 month old daughter got injured yesterday in the Peshawar Blast, my home is about 150 meter away from the blast site, she was sleeping & the blast shock wave broke the glass of the windows & a piece of glass fell on her. My homes 80% glass windows broken, many window frames have been displaced from their location. My mom & wife are terrified & still cry due to the shock of the blast when they remember it. 2 hafiz e quran boys dead, 3 members of the same family a father & his two daughters dead, a women taking her grade 2 child both dead, hundreds of such stories to recount & you still say its an American war. If its an American war why the fcuk don't your takifiri brothers in TTP go to Afghanistan & kill Americans,there are no Americans here in Pakistan to kill. What was my daughters sin or the just few among thousands mentioned innocent peoples sin to die such a horrible death. If your takfiri brothers leave Pakistan & fight Americans there, no one from Pakistan is gonna hunt them. So instead of sitting in luxury & siding with your takfiri brothers, go to them & fight with them.

I wish you had went through what I had to yesterday holding your 7 month old baby covered in blood then may be you understand who the fcuk is wrong & who is fighting whose war. Feel sorry for pathetic people like you, I pray people like you go through such hell to realize what it feels. When your 7 month old baby is lying in front of you not smiling, not eating & crying with pain, then people like you may realize, until then you guys will just keep sitting in front of your computers & write ***** like above.
 
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All Green,

These tribels are well trained fighters, most of them got gurrilla training in Russian war , they have complete advantage over PA , also have anti craft guns , they have capability to continue war for ten or more years .

PA dont have stamina to contniue war for than 3 weeks , they will play bull fight and when they will see now PA is tired they will encircle our army.

We have many recent examples Israel-labenon war, Israel Gaza war, Wana war 2003-2004.

Better we find any political solution of conflict.:agree:

Can you ever think from the brain lying in your head or there isn't any ?? Once in a while do write after using it.
 
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but remembering the subsequent displacement which had potential of further consolidation of the Talibs within the local populance (IDPs) in terms of difficulty in detection etc.
What?
In a future crisis Pak Army may not have the flexibility to move formations from Swat, Bajaur, and Waziristan to the Eastern border.

Also remember that FC elements, Bajaur Scouts, Chitral Scouts, and Tochi Scouts were deployed in the Northern areas during the 1971 war. Such a backup may not be available in a future conflict.
Dear you dont even know what all we have in our kitty.

i would suggest you to refrain from creating hysteria among masses and stop concluding false, ill-calculated and vague estimates.

You think that a civilian sitting on the internet shows 'concern' over the liquidation of military assets and those who command it wouldnt have thought about it? i never knew you underestimated our planners so low.

We still maintain that our main adversary is india (if she itches again) and we know how to handle her, so just relax.

Situation of Army Aviation is cause for serious concern. The aircrew issues can probably be resolved through aggressive induction / training in 2-3 years. Fleet utilization profile of Mi-17’s, Bell-412, AH-1’s in this phoney war is such that fatigue cycles are accumulating like hell. The AH-1 fleet is by now almost useless for sustained anti armor operations against India. We have been just too meek and undemanding to our customer (USA). It would make sense to demand at least 100 AH-1 and possible AH-64.

Well it is atleast better than rusting them in bunkers and conducting shooting practice on already 'dead' enemy!

It is just a bit too JAZBATI in carrying out its US assigned duty.
First it is not a duty assigned by anyone. If you still consider as such, i can just feel sorry for you and for those who have suffered miles in the hands of these buggers.

Second, when you face a very much live enemy and see your comrades blown up, emotions finds a very dark corner and sits there for guud. Thankfully we have learned alot from our mistakes.

As for foresight and planning PA has not done terribly well.
Bravo!
What exactly is your scale for this measurement?

Also try to see how many are with you on this deduction of yours.

Please read this article by Air Cdr (R) Kaiser Tufail:
Aeronaut: Kargil Conflict and Pakistan Air Force
Oh! not again. Please take some time and try to go through the (atleast 2-3) threads on sir Kaiser's article on this forum!!

You call this battle hardening? Pulverizing a few Kalashnikov wielding wild eyed crazies without any real defense does not make you a better soldier.
Strange!

You call these people incompetent and lousy. i wish you have a hand with them once.

Though THESE people may not be match for a professional Army, but the what they do (LIC, COIN, Special Ops etc) is very much a nightmare for any military. i think you need to re-read strategy and may be a little military history.

These kind of internal conflicts are a sure short way to destroy the Army professionally. They get used to easy pickings and pot shots against a numerically and technologically inferior adversary.

This is what happened to the “battle hardened” Georgian Army in Aug 2008. Most of the Georgian Army was recycled through Iraq, and their president thought that they were combat hardened. When Russian armor formations numbering less than 7000 penetrated into South Ossetia and the Air cover was lost to the Russian SU-27; about 30,000 Georgian troops based around Gori began running towards Tbilisi; leaving their shoes behind.

Agreed!

Long term employment of any military in unconventional warfare would hurt its conventional capability, but then you missed one very basic thing; the emphasis is on LONG TERM (read indian army's strangle-ness in Kashmir, american neck in iraqi/afghani noose etc etc), a few months of active, large/full scale and high tempo operations wont hurt, atleast to an Army like ours, who have something already fixed in the back of their mind!

Javed, sorry to say, you analyze but analyze vacuously!

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And taimi dear, let it not be you spilling all the beans about 'what all and what not' while you reply!!
 
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Brother Tami I can feel your grief........it is really painful to see someone close to you hurt and u cannot do anything……My prayers are for your child……and what u said above, I am totally agree with you. We don’t have to let these basters go away. There must be a revenge for even a single droplet of blood they shed and we will do this.

InshaAllah
 
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Brother Tami I can feel your grief........it is really painful to see someone close to you hurt and u cannot do anything……My prayers are for your child……and what u said above, I am totally agree with you. We don’t have to let these basters go away. There must be a revenge for even a single droplet of blood they shed and we will do this.

InshaAllah

Thanks a lot bro, do pray whenever you can.
 
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Pakistan launches Taliban assault


Fierce fighting has broken out as Pakistan's army launched an air and ground offensive against Taliban militants in the South Waziristan area.

Officials said 30,000 troops, backed by artillery, had moved into the region where Pakistan Taliban leader Hakimullah Mehsud is based.

Militants were reported to be offering stiff resistance as troops advanced from the north, east, and west.

A curfew was imposed in the region before the offensive began.

There have been several co-ordinated Taliban attacks in recent days, killing more than 150 people in cities across Pakistan.

Pakistan's top army spokesman Maj Gen Athar Abbas confirmed that a fully-fledged assault had begun and said that an offensive could last up to two months.

"The objective is to clear this terrorist organisation from the area, who has taken over the area, turned these state institutions, organisations out and has taken the entire population hostage," he told the BBC.

He added that intense fighting was expected during the course of the operation.

Dozens of casualties have already been reported by local officials as both sides used heavy weapons.

The bodies of three Pakistan soldiers were taken to the northern town of Razmak. There have also been unconfirmed reports of militant deaths.

Nearly all communications in the region were down after the Taliban destroyed a telecommunications tower at Tiarza, local officials said.

Reports from the area are sketchy as it is difficult and dangerous for foreign or Pakistani journalists to operate inside South Waziristan.

Aerial bombardments in the the Makeen area, a stronghold of the Mehsud tribe and a key army target, were also reported by local officials and witnesses.

One resident of Makeen town described the onset of fighting.

"We heard the sounds of planes and helicopters early Saturday. Then we heard blasts. We are also hearing gunshots and it seems the army is exchanging fire with Taliban," Ajmal Khan told the Associated Press news agency by telephone.

he ground operation comes after weeks of air and artillery strikes against militant targets in the region, which lies close to the Afghan border.

Thousands of civilians have fled South Waziristan in anticipation of the offensive.

Aid agencies say that many more are expected to flee but the tough terrain and the Taliban's grip on the area will present difficulties.

Transport has been difficult as roads have been blocked by the military.

There is a huge army presence on the road between Tank and Dera Ismail Khan, says the BBC's Islamabad correspondent Shoaib Hasan, near South Waziristan.

On his way to South Waziristan, he passed several army convoys on the road.

There has been no comment from the Pakistan military yet.

The mobilisation came a day after Pakistan Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani held a meeting of the country's senior political and military leadership.

Lengthy planning

Recent militant attacks were seen as an attempt to divide public opinion, but they appear to have strengthened the resolve of the government, which says the Taliban must now be eliminated, our correspondent added.

The army has been massing troops near the militants' stronghold for months - ever since the governor of Pakistan's North West Frontier Province announced a ground offensive in South Waziristan on 15 June.

Pakistan's government has been under considerable pressure from the US to tackle militancy there.

North and South Waziristan form a lethal militant belt from where insurgents have launched attacks across north-west Pakistan as well as into parts of eastern Afghanistan.

South Waziristan is considered to be the first significant sanctuary for Islamic militants outside Afghanistan since 9/11.

It also has numerous training camps for suicide bombers.

Pakistan launches Taliban assault


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Pakistan starts critical offensive against Taliban

By ISHTIAQ MAHSUD and NAHAL TOOSI, Associated Press Writers Ishtiaq Mahsud And Nahal Toosi, Associated Press Writers – 52 mins ago

DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan – Pakistani soldiers attacked militant bases in the main al-Qaida and Taliban stronghold along the Afghan border Saturday as the nuclear-armed country launched its most critical offensive yet against insurgents threatening its stability.

Five soldiers and 11 militants were killed as the more than 30,000 troops deployed to the region met stiff resistance in parts of South Waziristan, a possible hide-out of Osama bin Laden and a base for jihadists bent on overthrowing the U.S-backed government, attacking the West and scuttling the U.S. war effort in Afghanistan

The U.S. has pushed Pakistan to mount the offensive, which follows three unsuccessful campaigns since 2001 in the mountainous, remote region by mostly poorly equipped soldiers trained to fight conventional wars, not counterinsurgency operations.

The assault, which has been planned for several months, comes after a surge in militant attacks killed more than 175 people across Pakistan over the past two weeks. The operation is expected to last around two months and is aimed at clearing the region, then holding it, officials said.

Army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said the effort was focused on uprooting the Pakistani Taliban, an umbrella group of militants led by members of the Mehsud tribe blamed for most of the attacks that have battered the country over the last three years.

About 10,000 local militants and about 1,500 foreign fighters, most of them from Central Asia, control roughly 1,275 square miles (3,310 square kilometers) of territory, or about half of South Waziristan.

Intelligence officials said the ground troops Saturday were advancing on two flanks and a northern front of a central part of South Waziristan controlled by the Mehsuds. The areas being surrounded include the insurgent bases of Ladha and Makeen, the officials said on condition of anonymity because they were not allowed to brief the media.

Gunbattles were taking place outside Spinkai Raghzai, Kalkala and Sharwangai areas, the officials said.

As many as 150,000 civilians — possibly more — have left in recent months after the army made clear it was planning an assault. Most are believed to be staying in rented homes or with host families, but there are perhaps as many as 350,000 still in the region. The United Nations has been stockpiling relief supplies in a town near the region, but authorities are not expecting a major refugee crisis like the one that occurred during an offensive this year in the Swat Valley, also in the northwest.

Makeen resident Ajmal Khan said that the people left in his town were terrified but could not leave their homes due to a curfew.

"We heard sounds of planes and helicopters early Saturday. Then we heard blasts," Khan told The Associated Press by telephone. "We are also hearing gunshots and it seems the army is exchanging fire with the Taliban."

Over the last three months, the Pakistani air force has been bombing targets, while the army has said it has sealed off many Taliban supply and escape routes. The military has been trying to secure the support of local tribal armies in the fight.

At least 11 suspected insurgents were killed in the jet bombings, while a roadside bomb hit a security convoy, killing one soldier and wounding three others, two local intelligence officials said. A military statement Saturday evening said four soldiers were killed and 12 wounded in exchanges in the region.

It is nearly impossible to independently verify information from the region, which has little infrastructure or government presence. Foreigners require permission to enter the tribal areas, and few Pakistani journalists from other parts risk traveling there.

Recent opinion polls show widespread public support for military action against the insurgents and there is also broad political backing, a change from a few years ago. But a long and bloody conflict — and more terrorist attacks around the country — could erode that support.

Even if the army retakes the area, the offensive by itself is unlikely to be death blow to the country's entrenched militants, who have formed networks across the country, including with groups once nurtured by the state as proxies against its arch enemy India.

The militants could escape to other parts of Pakistan's semiautonomous tribal belt or cities in its heartland. The areas being targeted by the operation don't directly border Afghanistan, which could limit the impact on U.S., Afghan and NATO troops battling a resurgent Afghan Taliban.

Pakistan waged offensives in the Bajur and Mohmand tribal regions earlier this year that it hailed as successes. But militants are still active in both and there has been little reconstruction.

South Waziristan is also much farther that those two regions from the main northwestern city of Peshawar, meaning keeping the troops supplied will be much harder.

Since the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, the Pakistan army's three attempts to dislodge Taliban fighters from South Waziristan have ended in truces that left the Taliban in control. This time, the military has said there will be no deals, partly to avoid jeopardizing gains won earlier this year when Pakistani soldiers overpowered the Taliban in Swat.

The army's efforts in South Waziristan got a boost when a U.S. missile strike killed Pakistani Taliban chief Baitullah Mehsud in August. The militants have since named fellow tribesman Hakimullah Mehsud as their leader, and have claimed responsibility for most of the recent attacks, including a 22-hour standoff at the army's headquarters.

Taliban spokesmen could not immediately be reached for comment Saturday. Communications in and around the region appeared jammed, making it difficult to reach local residents or other witnesses.

The U.S. is trying to rush in equipment for the offensive that would help with mobility, night fighting and precision bombing, a U.S. Embassy official told AP in a recent interview, speaking on condition of anonymity because the issue is politically sensitive.

In addition to night-vision devices, the Pakistan military has said it is seeking additional Cobra helicopter gunships, laser-guided munitions and intelligence equipment to monitor cell and satellite telephones.

Army planners are also considering the weather. Snows expected in the coming weeks could block major roads in South Waziristan. At the same time, the winter could work to the army's advantage by driving fighters out of their unheated mountain hide-outs.

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Toosi reported from Islamabad. Associated Press writers Munir Ahmad, Asif Shahzad and Kathy Gannon in Islamabad and Hussain Afzal in Parachinar contributed to this report.



Pakistan starts critical offensive against Taliban
 
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All Green,

These tribels are well trained fighters, most of them got gurrilla training in Russian war ,

No they did not......Baitullah Mehsud never fought the russians neither did Hakimullah Mehsud.

they have complete advantage over PA , also have anti craft guns , they have capability to continue war for ten or more years .
PA dont have stamina to contniue war for than 3 weeks , they will play bull fight and when they will see now PA is tired they will encircle our army.

Like the did in SWAT?

We have many recent examples Israel-labenon war, Israel Gaza war, Wana war 2003-2004.

The population was behind them.....here the population is against them.

Better we find any political solution of conflict.:agree:

They tried during swat and where did it get us?

I cant remember if it was hazarat ali or Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddiq who caught these holier then though "muslims" during there rein and burnt them to death as punishment.......maybe we should do the same.
 
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taimi dear, i am really pained to read that you daughter was injured. Being a father i can imagine the pain that you must have felt, but ofcourse one cant to feel it until one goes through it. Really watching and listening to those all who have suffered because of these skunks sometimes becomes terrible and unbearable.

i pray for you and all those who have lost their beloved ones, may Allah keep them strong and grant them strength to bear the loss.

i also wish you baby a fast recovery, really taimi i... dont have words to say more...
 
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