Now, IAF wants new canopy for LCA

[Windjammer]

LCA aka Little Confused Aircraft becomes even more confused.

NOW, IAF WANTS NEW CANOPY FOR LCA
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 16, 2019

Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and HAL team has begun work on redesigning the canopy and put it on the test bed. Tejas R&D team has reworked the frame to accommodate the new canopy for the advanced model

BANGALORE: The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas aircraft, in its final operational clearance (FOC) configuration will have a new, thicker canopy with the Indian Air Force (IAF) having demanded the same. The same canopy is also to be used in the Tejas Mk-1A aircraft, which will be more advanced.
The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) team has already begun work on redesigning the canopy and put it on the test bed, sources working on the project said.
The Tejas R&D team has reworked the frame to accommodate the new canopy for the advanced model of Tejas, which will measure 24 mm as opposed to the existing 16 mm.
“The existing canopy lining could only hold a 16 mm glass, which had to be changed to accommodate 24 mm. Now the challenge would be to procure fresh glasses, as HAL had already made some purchases of the 16 mm glasses for the canopy, which is of no use now,” a person working on the LCA project said.
Since the changes were made to the structure, Tejas will have to be certified by the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC), which a senior official from the LCA project said will not be a problem as the reworked canopy has tested well on the test bed.
“The IAF has said that they now want the canopy to be able to negotiate a 40gm bird-hit as opposed to the 20gm that Tejas offered earlier. We will have to achieve as part of the FOC,” a senior member privy to developments said.
Besides, the IAF has also asked for mid air-refuelling capabilities in the night, which will see Tejas get another addition: a drogue light at the end of the refuelling probe. “These refuelling tests will also take a few months, as we have only recently achieved the wet tests in the day,” another source said.
While some of these changes has allowed HAL to begin manufacturing of the FOC configuration aircraft—orders for 20 of which have been placed—the defence PSU is banking on new orders of the 83 Tejas MK-1A to revive itself.
As reported earlier by TOI, HAL is staring at a depleting order book, with most of the major orders scheduled to be delivered by March 2020. Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman had recently said that the orders for 83 Tejas worth Rs 50,000 crore are in the pipeline. However, with cost negotiations still ongoing, HAL was unsure when the actual orders might be placed.



https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...w-and-thicker-canopy/articleshow/67550885.cms

 

[ZedZeeshan]

LCA aka Little Confused Aircraft becomes even more confused.

NOW, IAF WANTS NEW CANOPY FOR LCA
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 16, 2019

Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and HAL team has begun work on redesigning the canopy and put it on the test bed. Tejas R&D team has reworked the frame to accommodate the new canopy for the advanced model

BANGALORE: The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas aircraft, in its final operational clearance (FOC) configuration will have a new, thicker canopy with the Indian Air Force (IAF) having demanded the same. The same canopy is also to be used in the Tejas Mk-1A aircraft, which will be more advanced.
The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) team has already begun work on redesigning the canopy and put it on the test bed, sources working on the project said.
The Tejas R&D team has reworked the frame to accommodate the new canopy for the advanced model of Tejas, which will measure 24 mm as opposed to the existing 16 mm.
“The existing canopy lining could only hold a 16 mm glass, which had to be changed to accommodate 24 mm. Now the challenge would be to procure fresh glasses, as HAL had already made some purchases of the 16 mm glasses for the canopy, which is of no use now,” a person working on the LCA project said.
Since the changes were made to the structure, Tejas will have to be certified by the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC), which a senior official from the LCA project said will not be a problem as the reworked canopy has tested well on the test bed.
“The IAF has said that they now want the canopy to be able to negotiate a 40gm bird-hit as opposed to the 20gm that Tejas offered earlier. We will have to achieve as part of the FOC,” a senior member privy to developments said.
Besides, the IAF has also asked for mid air-refuelling capabilities in the night, which will see Tejas get another addition: a drogue light at the end of the refuelling probe. “These refuelling tests will also take a few months, as we have only recently achieved the wet tests in the day,” another source said.
While some of these changes has allowed HAL to begin manufacturing of the FOC configuration aircraft—orders for 20 of which have been placed—the defence PSU is banking on new orders of the 83 Tejas MK-1A to revive itself.
As reported earlier by TOI, HAL is staring at a depleting order book, with most of the major orders scheduled to be delivered by March 2020. Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman had recently said that the orders for 83 Tejas worth Rs 50,000 crore are in the pipeline. However, with cost negotiations still ongoing, HAL was unsure when the actual orders might be placed.



https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...w-and-thicker-canopy/articleshow/67550885.cms

 

[Maxpane]

let it go

 

[Windjammer]

HAL yet to build Tejas trainers, not expected before 2021
Training of pilots to fly the Tejas is now restricted to simulators and a couple of so-called “instrumented aircraft” with the Bengaluru-based Aeronautical Development Agency.

INDIA Updated: Jan 16, 2019 07:24 IST

Sudhi Ranjan Sen
Hindustan Times, New Delhi


The Indian Air Force has 11 Tejas fighters built by state-runHindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and is likely to receive five more by March, but it doesn’t have a single aircraft to train its pilots to fly the warplane.

• The two-seater Tejas trainer aircraft are not expected to be delivered before 2021, a senior ministry of defence official said, asking not to be identified because he is not authorised to speak to the media. “The process of building the trainers hasn’t yet started,” he said.
  
  Spokesperson for the Indian Air Force (IAF), Group Captain Anupam Banerjee, declined comment. Queries to HAL went unanswered.
  
  Training of pilots to fly the Tejas is now restricted to simulators and a couple of so-called “instrumented aircraft” with the Bengaluru-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), an arm of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), a second defence ministry official said. An instrumented aircraft differs from trainer aircraft. “It is not a standard version of the aircraft. For instance, the instrumentation panel in an instrumented aircraft is not standardised,” a senior IAF officer said on condition of anonymity .
  
  
  An instrumented aircraft is a prototype and requires a high degree of skill to fly. It is only used to test an aircraft, it is difficult to train new pilots in these jets,” the officer added.
  
  “Pilots have to shuttle between Sulur (in Tamil Nadu) — where the Tejas squadron is based — and Bengaluru to train. Both the simulator and the “instrumented aircraft” are located in Bengaluru. They are the property of the DRDO and IAF can only use the aircraft when they are not being used by the DRDO,” a senior test pilot of the Indian Air Force said, asking not to be identified said, and added, “generally trainers are collated with the squadron.”
  
  Senior HAL officials confirmed that trainer jets for the Tejas aircraft aren’t yet ready. “But we just underline that designs need to be frozen (finalised) before we can start producing the trainers,” one official said.
  
  He added: “We understand the compulsion of the IAF and hope we can arrive at a solution quickly,” the HAL official, who did not want to be named, said. The HAL official also said the state-owned planemaker cannot start a production line without clarity on how many trainer aircraft has to produce and to what specifications.
  
  “The DRDO, which designs the aircraft, did ask for changes. The IAF too changed the specifications. It asked for the four trainer jets under IOC (Initial Operational Clearance) configuration to be capable of refuelling mid-air. But that is because these are already a decade behind in being delivered. It makes sense to get trainers that are capable of refuelling mid-air than taking in trainers without these capabilities and then going for an upgrade,” a second defence ministry official said, explaining the changes in design.
  
  The IAF ordered 20 fighters with Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) and another 20 with Final Operational Clearance (FOC). The first contract for 20 jets under IOC configuration was signed in 2006. All 20 fighters including the trainers were to be delivered by 2011. The contract for 20 fighters under the FOC configuration was signed in 2011 with a similar delivery schedule.
  
  
  Of the 40 aircraft, eight were to be fighters to train pilots. In addition, the IAF will buy another 83 Tejas fighters from HAL. The technical evaluation of the 83 fighters is complete. Much of the price negotiations are also in process,” said a third defence ministry official, who too didn’t want to be identified.
  
  “Fighter flying has a syllabus, which cannot be done on a simulator. How does one supervise the flying of a youngster without flying with him on a trainer. The IAF?is now posting only qualified flight instructors and fight combat leaders to Tejas squadron because we cannot risk young pilots flying the fighters. Also, pilots going on leave or courses need to revalidate themselves when join back the squadron, how can these be done without a trainer?” Air Marshal SBP?Sinha (retd), the former commander of Central Air Command said.

 

[Beethoven]

These things shouldve been thought out a long time ago...still experimenting with an aircraft that is already behind schedule...Block 3 should roll out by the time they fix this problem...

 

[kmc_chacko]

LCA aka Little Confused Aircraft becomes even more confused.

NOW, IAF WANTS NEW CANOPY FOR LCA
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 16, 2019

Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and HAL team has begun work on redesigning the canopy and put it on the test bed. Tejas R&D team has reworked the frame to accommodate the new canopy for the advanced model

BANGALORE: The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas aircraft, in its final operational clearance (FOC) configuration will have a new, thicker canopy with the Indian Air Force (IAF) having demanded the same. The same canopy is also to be used in the Tejas Mk-1A aircraft, which will be more advanced.
The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) team has already begun work on redesigning the canopy and put it on the test bed, sources working on the project said.
The Tejas R&D team has reworked the frame to accommodate the new canopy for the advanced model of Tejas, which will measure 24 mm as opposed to the existing 16 mm.
“The existing canopy lining could only hold a 16 mm glass, which had to be changed to accommodate 24 mm. Now the challenge would be to procure fresh glasses, as HAL had already made some purchases of the 16 mm glasses for the canopy, which is of no use now,” a person working on the LCA project said.
Since the changes were made to the structure, Tejas will have to be certified by the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC), which a senior official from the LCA project said will not be a problem as the reworked canopy has tested well on the test bed.
“The IAF has said that they now want the canopy to be able to negotiate a 40gm bird-hit as opposed to the 20gm that Tejas offered earlier. We will have to achieve as part of the FOC,” a senior member privy to developments said.
Besides, the IAF has also asked for mid air-refuelling capabilities in the night, which will see Tejas get another addition: a drogue light at the end of the refuelling probe. “These refuelling tests will also take a few months, as we have only recently achieved the wet tests in the day,” another source said.
While some of these changes has allowed HAL to begin manufacturing of the FOC configuration aircraft—orders for 20 of which have been placed—the defence PSU is banking on new orders of the 83 Tejas MK-1A to revive itself.
As reported earlier by TOI, HAL is staring at a depleting order book, with most of the major orders scheduled to be delivered by March 2020. Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman had recently said that the orders for 83 Tejas worth Rs 50,000 crore are in the pipeline. However, with cost negotiations still ongoing, HAL was unsure when the actual orders might be placed.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...w-and-thicker-canopy/articleshow/67550885.cms

This is the problem with IAF, every-time they change their requirements and force, the R&D to achieve that without financial support and cry that its delayed.


@Windjammer , I didn't expected you to open new thread on LCA news, considering many of members object/complain about creating unnecessary LCA/Tejas threads without any substance. It would be great helpful if you could merge all LCA/Tejas related news with already existing HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions thread in Indian Defense Forum section instead of creating fresh thread for every petty information's. Let it be a norm so that Forum will be clean & neat.

This is my sincere & humble request and don't take it as offence.

 

[randomradio]

Another case of turning normal news into propaganda.

The new canopy has been in the works since quite sometime. It will come with FOC jets as part of a normal fit. The article is making a mountain out of a molehill.

And that article referring to twin seat trainers, is that meant as a joke? The IAF doesn't need twin seats to train pilots for the current batch of IOC and FOC jets. We have hundreds of Mig-21 qualified pilots for the LCA. Not to mention, rookie pilots can easily transition from the Hawk to the single seat LCA.

This is the problem with IAF, every-time they change their requirements and force, the R&D to achieve that without financial support and cry that its delayed.

There's nothing wrong with the requirement changes. It's all realistic and a normal part of development. The F-35 is also going through it.

The actual delays have little to do with requirement changes.

 

[hussain0216]

HAL yet to build Tejas trainers, not expected before 2021
Training of pilots to fly the Tejas is now restricted to simulators and a couple of so-called “instrumented aircraft” with the Bengaluru-based Aeronautical Development Agency.

INDIA Updated: Jan 16, 2019 07:24 IST

Sudhi Ranjan Sen
Hindustan Times, New Delhi


The Indian Air Force has 11 Tejas fighters built by state-runHindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and is likely to receive five more by March, but it doesn’t have a single aircraft to train its pilots to fly the warplane.

• The two-seater Tejas trainer aircraft are not expected to be delivered before 2021, a senior ministry of defence official said, asking not to be identified because he is not authorised to speak to the media. “The process of building the trainers hasn’t yet started,” he said.
  
  Spokesperson for the Indian Air Force (IAF), Group Captain Anupam Banerjee, declined comment. Queries to HAL went unanswered.
  
  Training of pilots to fly the Tejas is now restricted to simulators and a couple of so-called “instrumented aircraft” with the Bengaluru-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), an arm of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), a second defence ministry official said. An instrumented aircraft differs from trainer aircraft. “It is not a standard version of the aircraft. For instance, the instrumentation panel in an instrumented aircraft is not standardised,” a senior IAF officer said on condition of anonymity .
  
  
  An instrumented aircraft is a prototype and requires a high degree of skill to fly. It is only used to test an aircraft, it is difficult to train new pilots in these jets,” the officer added.
  
  “Pilots have to shuttle between Sulur (in Tamil Nadu) — where the Tejas squadron is based — and Bengaluru to train. Both the simulator and the “instrumented aircraft” are located in Bengaluru. They are the property of the DRDO and IAF can only use the aircraft when they are not being used by the DRDO,” a senior test pilot of the Indian Air Force said, asking not to be identified said, and added, “generally trainers are collated with the squadron.”
  
  Senior HAL officials confirmed that trainer jets for the Tejas aircraft aren’t yet ready. “But we just underline that designs need to be frozen (finalised) before we can start producing the trainers,” one official said.
  
  He added: “We understand the compulsion of the IAF and hope we can arrive at a solution quickly,” the HAL official, who did not want to be named, said. The HAL official also said the state-owned planemaker cannot start a production line without clarity on how many trainer aircraft has to produce and to what specifications.
  
  “The DRDO, which designs the aircraft, did ask for changes. The IAF too changed the specifications. It asked for the four trainer jets under IOC (Initial Operational Clearance) configuration to be capable of refuelling mid-air. But that is because these are already a decade behind in being delivered. It makes sense to get trainers that are capable of refuelling mid-air than taking in trainers without these capabilities and then going for an upgrade,” a second defence ministry official said, explaining the changes in design.
  
  The IAF ordered 20 fighters with Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) and another 20 with Final Operational Clearance (FOC). The first contract for 20 jets under IOC configuration was signed in 2006. All 20 fighters including the trainers were to be delivered by 2011. The contract for 20 fighters under the FOC configuration was signed in 2011 with a similar delivery schedule.
  
  
  Of the 40 aircraft, eight were to be fighters to train pilots. In addition, the IAF will buy another 83 Tejas fighters from HAL. The technical evaluation of the 83 fighters is complete. Much of the price negotiations are also in process,” said a third defence ministry official, who too didn’t want to be identified.
  
  “Fighter flying has a syllabus, which cannot be done on a simulator. How does one supervise the flying of a youngster without flying with him on a trainer. The IAF?is now posting only qualified flight instructors and fight combat leaders to Tejas squadron because we cannot risk young pilots flying the fighters. Also, pilots going on leave or courses need to revalidate themselves when join back the squadron, how can these be done without a trainer?” Air Marshal SBP?Sinha (retd), the former commander of Central Air Command said.

Considering the amount of time it takes to develop pilot competency and combat doctrines on a platform the indians have made a real dogs breakfast of this plane

 

[kmc_chacko]

The new canopy has been in the works since quite sometime. It will come with FOC jets as part of a normal fit. The article is making a mountain out of a molehill.

There's nothing wrong with the requirement changes. It's all realistic and a normal part of development. The F-35 is also going through it.

The actual delays have little to do with requirement changes.

F-35s can wait but Tejas can't.

 

[randomradio]

F-35s can wait but Tejas can't.

Regardless the delays have nothing to do with IAF's requirement changes.

 

[Windjammer]

And that article referring to twin seat trainers, is that meant as a joke? The IAF doesn't need twin seats to train pilots for the current batch of IOC and FOC jets. We have hundreds of Mig-21 qualified pilots for the LCA. Not to mention, rookie pilots can easily transition from the Hawk to the single seat LCA.
.

Amazing you sitting on a PC desk are more knowledgeable than those at HAL.
I mean after all if one was to go by your theory then what's the need to have a trainer now or in 2021.
And this from both HAL and IAF.

''Senior HAL officials confirmed that trainer jets for the Tejas aircraft aren’t yet ready. “But we just underline that designs need to be frozen (finalised) before we can start producing the trainers,” one official said.
He added: “We understand the compulsion of the IAF and hope we can arrive at a solution quickly,”

The IAF?is now posting only qualified flight instructors and fight combat leaders to Tejas squadron because we cannot risk young pilots flying the fighters. Also, pilots going on leave or courses need to revalidate themselves when join back the squadron, how can these be done without a trainer?” Air Marshal SBP?Sinha (retd), the former commander of Central Air Command said.

 

[Dash]

The 24mm glass is already developed and tested.

 

[Bullzz]

And the story continues .............

 

[randomradio]

Amazing you sitting on a PC desk are more knowledgeable than those at HAL.
I mean after all if one was to go by your theory then what's the need to have a trainer now or in 2021.
And this from both HAL and IAF.

''Senior HAL officials confirmed that trainer jets for the Tejas aircraft aren’t yet ready. “But we just underline that designs need to be frozen (finalised) before we can start producing the trainers,” one official said.
He added: “We understand the compulsion of the IAF and hope we can arrive at a solution quickly,”

The IAF?is now posting only qualified flight instructors and fight combat leaders to Tejas squadron because we cannot risk young pilots flying the fighters. Also, pilots going on leave or courses need to revalidate themselves when join back the squadron, how can these be done without a trainer?” Air Marshal SBP?Sinha (retd), the former commander of Central Air Command said.

It's a brand new aircraft and has never been flown outside India. What is it that you are expecting? We have 11 jets, so you can expect these to be flown by experienced pilots after all. Even our the initial lot of 36 Rafales will see experienced pilots flying first.

That's why I said we have tons of experienced Mig-21 pilots available and don't need a two seat trainer in a hurry. Hell, that's also why the IAF is willing to wait an extra year for it.

Ultimately, the trainer will be necessary over the next 10+ years when rookies are expected to perform complex missions right away on the advanced single seats coming up. The Mk1A will have a very complex integrated avionics suite, and will be completely integrated with the IACCS. So they have to deal with very complex data from the get-go. While in the US, the rookie F-35 pilots transition to the F-35 from the F-16, we can use a trainer to do the same. The Hawk and the trainer variant will give them a proper 4th gen fighter experience before the pilots qualify to fly the Mk1A. The current IOC and FOC versions are pretty basic as far as 4th gen aircraft are concerned, so do not need special training. Rookie pilots can transition to the FOC version straightaway, if they are given the chance to do so.

Or are you saying the JF-17 pilots are pretty pathetic since there is no two seat variant to train them even after 8 years?

 

[Taimoor Khan]

And that article referring to twin seat trainers, is that meant as a joke? The IAF doesn't need twin seats to train pilots for the current batch of IOC and FOC jets. We have hundreds of Mig-21 qualified pilots for the LCA. Not to mention, rookie pilots can easily transition from the Hawk to the single seat LCA.

That's thick coming from you lot considering how you lot been toeing this line for years about no dual seat JF17 available and how mighty Tejas beat JF17 in this way. So what happened to dual seat Tejas? I am confused. Was the dual seat Tejas a lemon?