No need for 126 Rafales: Parrikar

[Bang Galore]

I know that you have been consistent in your stand and now the forces have to live with 36 when clearly they could have got more of these birds if the decision to buy them would have completed 3 years back with enough flexibility but St Anthony wanted to remain a Saint for his own Lungi.

This whole tender was one big mess. (politeness keeps me from using stronger language) The IAF played this stupidly & the then RM/MoD allowed this stupid game to go on. How can you judge single engined fighters like the Mig35, F-16, Gripen with bigger aircraft like the F18, Rafale & the EF and say that the Rafale & the EF are more capable. Any idiot could have told them that without wasting years & years. How does that square with your budget & what would they offer should have been the only things to be explored. The IAF is mainly responsible for this mess, running after expensive toys & acting as if money is no object is why they are now left with 36 aircrafts.

 

[IND151]

These statements could also be psychological games being played as a way to leverage the back channel price negotiations.

picture abhi baaki hai

but either way, I hope they go for at least 12 more.

Possible

 

[SamantK]

This whole tender was one big mess. (politeness keeps me from using stronger language) The IAF played this stupidly & the then RM/MoD allowed this stupid game to go on. How can you judge single engined fighters like the Mif35, F-16, Gripen with bigger aircraft like the F18, Rafale & the EF and say that the Rafale & the EF are more capable. Any idiot could have told them that without wasting years & years. How does that square with your budget & what would they offer should have been the only things to be explored. The IAF is mainly responsible for this mess, running after expensive toys & acting as if money is no object is why they are now left with 36 aircrafts.

There is nothing more to add than this. Period.

 

[egodoc222]

Going for Saab gripen with co-development of tejas mk2 and in future for amca should be the next step!!!
As 36 rafale would be used for strategic purposes...lca mk2 and gripen will be work horses...

Wat is the flyaway cost of gripen e/f??

 

[drunken-monke]

India unlikely to go for more than 36 Rafale fighters at this stage
NEW DELHI: India is unlikely to buy more than 36 French Rafale fighters as of now, less than one-third of the 126 jets that were envisaged under the now-scrapped $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project.

But another 20 Rafale jets might be procured at a later stage to make a total of three squadrons, much like what was done in the acquisition of Mirage-2000s from France in the mid-1980s.

India hopes to ink the deal for the direct purchase of the first 36 fighters in "a flyaway condition" by around August, following which the fighters are to be delivered over the next two years.

As was decided during the Modi-Hollande summit in Paris on April 10, India will get "better terms and conditions" for the 36 Rafales under a government-to-government agreement.

"The discussions (between high-level Indian and French contract negotiating committees) started on May 13. Let them complete the discussions and come back. As of now, there are only 36 Rafales, which was the mandate given by the PM," said defence minister Manohar Parrikar, talking to TOI.

"The direct acquisition of 36 Rafales is based on the IAF's critical operational requirement. What is the final offer at the end of the discussions, it will be considered then. I will not like to comment at this stage... let the discussions come to some conclusion," he added.

Under the deadlocked MMRCA project, in which Rafale emerged the winner in January 2012 after a hotly-contested open global competition, the first 18 jets were to come in "a flyaway condition". The rest 108 were to be made by Hindustan Aeronautics in India after transfer of technology.

But the acquisition of all the 126 fighters would have been "a very steep slope to climb financially", given that it would have required around Rs 1,30,000 crore over 10-12 years, said Parrikar.

But how does the "Make in India" policy tie in with the outright purchase of the 36 Rafales? "There is a Make in India component with the 50% offsets clause in the contract (France will have to plough back 50% of the contract value back into India as offsets)... We have to use it properly," he said.

The final MMRCA negotiations had stalled over the pricing for the 108 fighters to be produced by HAL, with it costing "2.7 times" more than what was originally envisaged, as was reported by TOI.

The relatively fast-track acquisition of even the 36 Rafale fighters will come as a big relief for the IAF, which is down to just 34 fighter squadrons when at least 44 are required to be confident against China and Pakistan. What makes the situation even more alarming is the fact that the existing four MiG-27 and 10 MiG-21 squadrons in the combat fleet have to be progressively retired in the 2016-2022 timeframe.

India unlikely to go for more than 36 Rafale fighters at this stage - The Times of India

Bold part is what we are interested with...

 

[GURU DUTT]

Sirs,

This is called a cluster fcuk----. To some of you indian members---how does it feel to get your feet back on the ground----how does it feel when you have your expectations smashed and reality hit you in the face and you realize the it was just an illusion----.

That also after 5 years and more of this drama---you guys are left empty handed with a little bit of grease to stroke yourself ( the 36 rafales ).

I want to know how the French are feeling---how are they taking this news----. Do they feel like they have been rammed hard in a manner only the Indians can do it-----aah those poor French----.

salaam mastan saheb

these typeof news about 36 rafales are nothing but physilogical games played between new PMO &DM on one side and dassault, beurocracy lobby & there media clowns

its like both are plying (chirriya urr- tot aurr)

1.36 is not the final number for rafales its 54 + 8

2. negociation and mind games are played on media by both sides which is making indian beurocracy very very unhappy as they know there golden egg lying goose is gone (at least for all the arms tenders in next 4 years)

baki aap khud samjhdaar ho

 

[Donatello]

Sirs,

This is called a cluster fcuk----. To some of you indian members---how does it feel to get your feet back on the ground----how does it feel when you have your expectations smashed and reality hit you in the face and you realize the it was just an illusion----.

That also after 5 years and more of this drama---you guys are left empty handed with a little bit of grease to stroke yourself ( the 36 rafales ).

I want to know how the French are feeling---how are they taking this news----. Do they feel like they have been rammed hard in a manner only the Indians can do it-----aah those poor French----.

See, if Indians were the only export customer for Rafale at 126 units, French would care. But now, Rafale has smaller orders from Egypt (confirmed at 24), Qatar for 24 units plus 12 options, Kuwait is waiting to see, and given the mess aroud them, they'll probably get a squadron or two. UAE want's 30-40 Rafales as well. So that makes up the loss of Indian orders. Meanwhile, French learnt a good lesson. How Indians were trying to take them for a ride, but on this very forum, i always stated, the way India was envisioning that Dassault transfer all know how of Rafale to India (India expected the blueprints to be given to them in the same cost), that was never going to happen. Western technology innovators don't do that. French refused to budge, and i respect them for that. Of course they lost billions, but i guess if they are clever enough, they can con India with the related ammunition sales

salaam mastan saheb

these typeof news about 36 rafales are nothing but physilogical games played between new PMO &DM on one side and dassault, beurocracy lobby & there media clowns

its like both are plying (chirriya urr- tot aurr)

1.36 is not the final number for rafales its 54 + 8

2. negociation and mind games are played on media by both sides which is making indian beurocracy very very unhappy as they know there golden egg lying goose is gone (at least for all the arms tenders in next 4 years)

baki aap khud samjhdaar ho

Are you guys really stupid or what?

Your own defense minister has clearly said that they have saved the money by not ordering the 90 Rafales and they don't plan on ordering any more than 36. The whole tender became a fiasco, and just to save face on the French front, Modi went there and signed the deal. If he was really smart, he would've waited until the Paris Air Show due this month.

 

[Styx]

If he was really smart, he would've waited until the Paris Air Show due this month.

you really know your shit, bro

shame you're not our defence minister

 

[ito]

I say bring in SAAB and make it a partner in Tejas program. It will not only improve the Tejas platform but also will help also build Indian capability for AMCA.

 

[Gabriel92]

I want to know how the French are feeling---how are they taking this news----. Do they feel like they have been rammed hard in a manner only the Indians can do it-----aah those poor French----.

Concerning the deal,some are frustrated because the number ordered will be 36 Rafale and not 126,but some see it as a good news,because instead of giving full ToT and build only 18 Rafale at home,Dassault won't give any ToT and 36 Rafale will be built at home.

 

[Donatello]

you really know your shit, bro

shame you're not our defence minister

No need. You've got plenty of clowns to entertain the circus.

 

[MastanKhan]

Concerning the deal,some are frustrated because the number ordered will be 36 Rafale and not 126,but some see it as a good news,because instead of giving full ToT and build only 18 Rafale at home,Dassault won't give any ToT and 36 Rafale will be built at home.

Hi,

So if and when the deal gets signed----it is just an average deal---not even at par---. All that drama was not worth it---.

 

[SamantK]

Hi,

So if and when the deal gets signed----it is just an average deal---not even at par---. All that drama was not worth it---.

Sir,

Let me humbly submit that we do not do deals for Drama.

Thanks!

 

[Prajapati]

Concerning the deal,some are frustrated because the number ordered will be 36 Rafale and not 126,but some see it as a good news,because instead of giving full ToT and build only 18 Rafale at home,Dassault won't give any ToT and 36 Rafale will be built at home.

That is a foolish assertion. What good is Technology if you cannot monitize it in time.

With Time ALL Technology becomes worthless.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir,

Let me humbly submit that we do not do deals for Drama.

Thanks!

Hi,

For over the years---I have kept quiet over the Rafale issue---maybe a comment here a comment there----but no flame in the past.

Excuse my language please---what the fluk was that drama for ---for the last 8 years or what----MMRCA MMRCA MMRCA----we will do this---we will do that----bring your bids---we will take the lowest bid---we will test this---we will test that----we will see this---we will see that----upstairs---downstairs---up in the air----down in the boonies---what a cockamamie bullshit jumping thru the hoops kind of drama----.up in the mountains---down in the desert----cold start---hot start---

What was that---we know how to negotiate---we don't bend over----nobody will take us for granted---we will get transfer of technology or no deal---we will do this we will do that----.

I don't know if you are a girl or a guy---otherwise I have a nice joke to perk up the mood.

India took stupidity to the levels seen never before with this MRCA deal----. Drama drama drama----wanted to squeeze the ballz of the French---. Look how the ego of the drama queen has been shattered----haven't even signed the 36 aircraft deal yet----still not been able to finalize the deal.

Those who knew what the aircraft could do---signed the deal in TWO MONTHS.

So---how does one feel with their egos smashed and shattered pieces littering the ground of brutal and unforgiving reality.