No More Mirage for IAF

[EagleEyes]

French Mirage no more interested in 10-billion dollar IAF deal
New Delhi | February 02, 2006 8:13:41 PM IST

SHIV AROOR

Posted online: Thursday, February 02, 2006 at 0149 hours IST

NEW DELHI, FEBRUARY 1: The Navy’s effort to purchase American E-2C Hawkeye carrier-based early warning aircraft collapsed recently for technical reasons, but so strong is the force’s need for such a capability that it has decided to compromise and explore operating the aircraft from shore-based airfields.

Northrop-Grumman, makers of Hawkeye, gave Naval HQ a detailed full-day presentation on the craft in the third week of December and is expected to meet naval vice-chief Vice-Admiral V Bharathan over the next two days for a second level of detail update. Normally used off aircraft carriers, the Hawkeye needs a steam catapult for take-off and is unsuitable for the Admiral Gorshkov which only has a ski-jump.

The December presentation shows that the US firm has proposed the sale of 10 platforms, with a pair each based at Goa, Visakhapatnam, Kochi and Porbandar and two in reserve.

The Navy’s interest in the Hawkeye was reflected in a technical memorandum signed by HAL with Northrop-Grumman a year ago in New York. The Navy was initially sceptical about the aircraft’s range when operated from shore, but is now understood to be considering the platform keenly

French aviation company Dassault and the supplier of Mirage 2000-5 fighter jets, are reportedly unhappy with the Indian Defence Ministry for the delay in taking a decision in the acquisition of Mirage 2000-5 fighter jets.

This comes in the wake of Union Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee statement that " Request for Proposals" (RFP) for purchase of 126 fighter jets for the Indian Air Force were open to any manufacturers," which he made while inaugurating India's biggest defence exhibition Defexpo 2006.

Though the Indian Government has not yet floated any global tender, the race for the dollar ten billion deal has already heated up among whose and who of the global defence manufacturers. The notable being the US aviation giant- Boeing, Lockhedmartin, Swedish SAAB and Russian defence manufacturers Rosoboronexport.

French company Dassault conspicuous by its absence in the Defexpo-2006 also has not taken any decision to field other expensive and heavier aircraft like Rafale fighter.

The French companies are impatient and want to withdraw their offer of Mirage 2000-5, as they "cannot wait anymore for the Indians to make up their mind on whether or not to buy the Mirage 2000-5 as it was difficult to the sustain the cost of an idle production chain."

India is unlikely to acquire the fighter aircraft in a hurry.

The country's armament purchase is currently at a record low and is less than Rupees 80 crores (USD 18 million) compared to Rupees 160 crores(USD 36 million) in 2002-03.

The recent slump has been attributed to the controversies in the defence deals of the previous NDA government, which has prevented the current regime to go slow on the procurement. But the Indian defence currently is in dire need of finalising purchase of 126 multi-role combat aircraft, 155MM artillery guns and state-of-art surveillance equipment.

The Defexpo was today buzzing with the reports of Swedish SAAB companies high pitch campaign to put forward the Gripen fighter jets for the IAF.

Although unsure of U.S. administration giving clearance to fighter jets sale to India; Boeing with FA-18 Hornet, and Lockhedmartin F-16 are the current favorites to mop up this lucrative deal in-spite of tough competition thrown up by Russia's MIG-29 and British Typhoons. (ANI)

http://www.ibnlive.com/article.php?id=4758...58§ion_id=3

 

[Sid]

As far as I know, that was the reason for Dassault pulling out of the contenders' race and now the Mirage 2000-5 production liine has been shut down. France has, infact, now put up Rafael for competition of 126 aircraft that IAF requires.

But it is quite safe to say that Rafael would lose out due to its high cost of acquisition plus the logistics and training as well as maintainance.

 

[Bull]

Originally posted by myst@Feb 21 2006, 10:49 PM
As far as I know, that was the reason for Dassault pulling out of the contenders' race and now the Mirage 2000-5 production liine has been shut down. France has, infact, now put up Rafael for competition of 126 aircraft that IAF requires.

But it is quite safe to say that Rafael would lose out due to its high cost of acquisition plus the logistics and training as well as maintainance.

[post=5989]Quoted post[/post]​

on the point again.The are shutting down the lines for M2K,a dn so are offering rafales.I also dont like to see rafale in IAF colours, but the looks are deadly.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=5525


French company offers upgraded fighter jet
AK DHAR NEW DELHI, FEB 21 (PTI)
With the Indian Air Force close to floating international tenders for acquisition of 126 multi-role combat aircraft, French defence major Dassault Aviation has offered to sell its latest fighters Rafale.

The French offer was made by Chacks Edelstenne, CEO of Dassault Aviation, when he called on the Minister of State for Defence Rao Inderjit Singh here yesterday. The Deputy Chief of the Air Staff Air Marshal AK Nangalia was also present.

Edelstenne told PTI his company informed the Minister of Dassault's decision not to field its upgraded Mirage 2000-5 for the Indian deal. The French Mirages were leading contenders for the Indian sale, as the IAF already has 40 Mirage-2000D aircraft in its inventory.

"We are on the verge of closing the Mirage fighter assembly line and want to offer India a quantum jump in technology in the shape of upgraded new multi-mission Rafales", he said.

"Though India has not not floated the Request for Proposals (RFP), we have conveyed to India to supply 40 Rafale multi-mission fighters in single source deal", the Dassault CEO, who is currently here as part of French President Jacques Chirac business entourage, said.

And in a major move, French aviation engine giant, Snecma, which is bidding for DRDO's joint collaboration project on the Kaveri engines, has offered to mount them in two Rafale fighters. Snecma is already collaborating with public sector Hindustan Aeronautics Limited on production of aero engines powering the Advanced Light Helicopters.

Dassult's surprise bid to pitch in its Rafale fighters for the IAF's multi-role combat aircraft project appears significant indicating that India could opt for two types of fighters in its moves to cover the shortfall in squadron strength.

Besides, Dassault, four other companies American Boeing and Lockheed-Martin, Swedish Grippen and Russian Mig-29S are competing for the Indian sale. IAF Chief S P Tyagi has said that once the RFP was floated,other bidders were also welcome to join in.

Rafale, along with Boeings F-18 , both of which have some of the features of the fifth generation fighters are expected to be priced higher.

During a closed door meeting with accompanying French Business delegation here yesterday, President Chirac is understood to have told them that Indian market was now highly competative and French companies would have to offer latest technology if they was to make deep inroads here.

 

[Sid]

At the end of the day, I would expect the IAF to go for the Mig-29s with thrust-vectoriing as they already have the logistics in place and their pilots are experienced on the type of aircraft and should have no difficulty adapting to the newer version. Mig-29 is a very capable aircraft indeed.

F-16s and F-18s, althought very good aircrafts, would not find much acceptance within the Indian bureaucracy as well as the IAF itself because they have never used an American aircraft before and to induct these totally different jets (when you compare them to their current force structure) would mean that new logistics and infrastructure would need to be addressed and put in to place which is itself quite a costly venture apart from just buying the aircrafts themselves.

Rafael, once again, very capable but also very very expensive. And there's no point in buying the Rafael now when they already have the Su-30s in place as their frontline combat aircrafts. Rafaels would just confuse the planners in doing their job as well.

One thing to be kept in mind is that the IAF is looking to buy these 126 AC to form the bulk of the IAF which means they're really not looking for the most high-tech AC around since they already have the Sukhois for that role. Just like PAF is going for Jf-17 to form the backbone of its force, the Indians are looking for something a little cheaper and a little high-tech than the most revered ACs around; because their indigenous fighter jet, the LCA Tejas is taking time in that they just handed its Kaveri engine project to a French firm.

I'll say it again, Mig-29, so far the best option, not only because of the above mentioned reasons, but because they also come from a reliable source, RUSSIA.

 

[Khan]

Though the Indian Government has not yet floated any global tender, the race for the dollar ten billion deal has already heated up among whose and who of the global defence manufacturers. The notable being the US aviation giant- Boeing, Lockhedmartin, Swedish SAAB and Russian defence manufacturers Rosoboronexport.

I though sweden had a policy of not selling fighter aircrafts to any country thats part of a flash point. I guess thast why we didnt get the Grippens. Can somebody explain the actual story.

 

[Sid]

I'm sure that the prospect of a $10b deal overshadowed any such policy. Though I'll see what I can dig up.

 

[RAPTOR]

I though sweden had a policy of not selling fighter aircrafts to any country thats part of a flash point. I guess thast why we didnt get the Grippens. Can somebody explain the actual story.

Its simple..Sweden sold india the BOFORS guns which are hardly defensive in nature. The reason Sweden didnt sell Pakistan the Gripens was because the indians started screaming and howling about the sale even before Musharaf left Pakistan. So the swedes backed off and offered only the Eireye awacs. The same goes for Belgium and Holland which wont sell any used F-16s to Pakistan because of indian inteference.

Also, a lot of you might not know this...but when india signs any defense contract with a country...it has a clause in it that says "Not to be sold to Pakistan" otherwise contract null and void. Why do you think Russia refused to sell anything to Pakistan and France will not sell any major weapons platform to Pakistan anymore. Same goes for Israel.

 

[miroslav]

People are forgetting one hard fact of life regarding the M2K5.

The Mirages are more expensive than the Su-30MKI's.

IAF is looking for MRCA's to replace the old fleet of MiG's and Jags.

There is no point on spending hard cash on a plane like Mirage.

Miro

 

[Nasir]

Then? What do you think would be the cheap option?

IAF is no way getting Mirage 2K5, i can bet on that.

Any other option, maybe available, but it will be expensive to replace MiGs and Jags.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Bull]

Then? What do you think would be the cheap option?

IAF is no way getting Mirage 2K5, i can bet on that.

Any other option, maybe available, but it will be expensive to replace MiGs and Jags.

Just my 2 cents.

They have shut doen the plant,so how can anybody get it.

Deifnilty its going to be expensive to replace 200 Acs..my 1 cent

 

[miroslav]

Then? What do you think would be the cheap option?

Its not about cheap or expensive.

Point is when you can get MKI in less money why would you spend more on Mirage?

In my opinion best option is a split order between MiG-35 and Rafael.

No amriki stuff.

Miro

P.S: - My opinion is not counted by the Babu's in the MoD

 

[kingkong]

The HAL Tejas (IPA: /t̪eʒəs/ Sanskrit: तेजस् (help·info): "Radiance") is a lightweight multirole jet fighter being developed by India. It is a tailless,[1] compound delta wing design powered by a single engine. Originally known as the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA)—a designation which continues in popular usage—the aircraft was officially named "Tejas".[2] by then Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee on 4 May 2003.[3]

 

[sms]

^ There is no value add to bring up this old and dead thread?