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No fighters for pakistan: Russia

Pakistan is still interested in it and sometime negociation can take years before contract is sign. Just wait and see what comes out of it.
Pakistan might be trying to negociated a deal for J-11 and it's just a tactic to reduce the price.
J-11 has a long history.
Russia sold downgraded version of Su-27 to China then China copied it as J-11. Now if PAF is going to buy it , that would be downgrade version of J-11. It means PAF is going to buy downgrade version of downgraded Su-27. I think the same JF-17 can be much better. Seriously
 
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J-11 has a long history.
Russia sold downgraded version of Su-27 to China then China copied it as J-11. Now if PAF is going to buy it , that would be downgrade version of J-11. It means PAF is going to buy downgrade version of downgraded Su-27. I think the same JF-17 can be much better. Seriously
the old j11 is a copy of su 27 but the new j11 d is Indigenously-produced by china and has aesa radar which is much better than su30mki and also remember it has around 60 % use of composites which reduces its rcs by alot
so saying j11 b or d is downgraded su 27 then u r living in a fools paradise and let me tell you j11 is better than su30mki
 
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the old j11 is a copy of su 27 but the new j11 d is Indigenously-produced by china and has aesa radar which is much better than su30mki and also remember it has around 60 % use of composites which reduces its rcs by alot
so saying j11 b or d is downgraded su 27 then u r living in a fools paradise and let me tell you j11 is better than su30mki
You think that China would sell it's recently available technology? Are you nuts?
China has upgraded it's J-11s to J-11D at April 29, 2015. If you can buy it , i will not say no. Buy downgrade version of J-11D. Nice choice however i don't doubt China is not going to sell it. At least until they improve J-11D.
 
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J-11 has a long history.
Russia sold downgraded version of Su-27 to China then China copied it as J-11. Now if PAF is going to buy it , that would be downgrade version of J-11. It means PAF is going to buy downgrade version of downgraded Su-27. I think the same JF-17 can be much better. Seriously

All i can say is read up about j-11d
 
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All i can say is read up about j-11d
I prefer anything Russian bro. If you cannot buy from Russia , so make your homemade jets even if it's 3d gen fighter coz you can upgrade it.
Don't waste your money on Chinese trash. I know China has good technologies but they will stay in China until unveiling a better one. So don't lose Russian TECH it's much ahead.
 
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j-10, j-11 are unproven. they have not been evaluated by neutral professional air force. you can say paf evaluated them. if it was good paf would have purchased them instead of sucking up to the americans for f-16s

Too much of such taunt and rhetoric. You need to refrain from use of such unethical language and need to show some decency.

How would you define a bird is not proven but if you bring the battle seen theory and even if it has go by that, how many birds in world, inducted by air forces are proven. Birds are inducted in good numbers by PLAAF after rigorously tested and are flying since long.

PAF evaluated the aircrafts yet shows interest about the bird which fits for the doctrine. Chinese flankers are not for export yet.

Neutral professional air force, from where the UN that India do not acknowledge or from the Mars. There is no neutral air force and all institutions belongs to respective countries which makes itself a nation's force.

Which air force is unprofessional? Share the names or links please and in what since as after all PAF is acknowledged by many professional air forces around the world. Recently participated in red flag, before that in Anatolian Eagle and has been praised as well.

Don't throw flame baits and make baseless claims or otherwise share the source and any official statement in such regards while quoting PAF. J-10 was evaluated, was offered, not inducted due to requirement of our doctrine and bird available at that time but the same has evolved and progressed a lot and is flying continuously with PLAAF.

Those unproven birds forced India to buy Rafale through such biggest deal to counter them even having the fleet of SU-30s or those Indian SUs are not proven to counter the threat but NO, it is always about the change in arena and doctrine that warrants the different purchases. Nations bought F-35 way before serial production and orders were placed and started to receive that as 1 bird without any that so-called proven terminology.
 
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Too much of such taunt and rhetoric. You need to refrain from use of such unethical language and need to show some decency.

How would you define a bird is not proven but if you bring the battle seen theory and even if it has go by that, how many birds in world, inducted by air forces are proven. Birds are inducted in good numbers by PLAAF after rigorously tested and are flying since long.

PAF evaluated the aircrafts yet shows interest about the bird which fits for the doctrine. Chinese flankers are not for export yet.

Neutral professional air force, from where the UN that India do not acknowledge or from the Mars. There is no neutral air force and all institutions belongs to respective countries which makes itself a nation's force.

Which air force is unprofessional? Share the names or links please and in what since as after all PAF is acknowledged by many professional air forces around the world. Recently participated in red flag, before that in Anatolian Eagle and has been praised as well.

Don't throw flame baits and make baseless claims or otherwise share the source and any official statement in such regards while quoting PAF. J-10 was evaluated, was offered, not inducted due to requirement of our doctrine and bird available at that time but the same has evolved and progressed a lot and is flying continuously with PLAAF.

Those unproven birds forced India to buy Rafale through such biggest deal to counter them even having the fleet of SU-30s or those Indian SUs are not proven to counter the threat but NO, it is always about the change in arena and doctrine that warrants the different purchases. Nations bought F-35 way before serial production and orders were placed and started to receive that as 1 bird without any that so-called proven terminology.

In this case what is the definition of an unprofessional air force ?? It would be one that does not have the money or capability to induct and operate a high performance combat aircraft. Burma would one. Zimbabwe might be another.

The PAF is professional force. They are not neutral bystanders. They won't say in public anything negative about Chinese aircraft.

In the case of F-35 countries are buying an un-proven aircraft. they are banking on the track record & ability of Lockheed and Uncle Sam to deliver a high quality product.

lots of different countries have evaluated the rafale and su-30. i am sure they are shortcomings. countries are using their own money to purchase these combat aircraft. that speaks for itself
 
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j-10, j-11 are unproven. they have not been evaluated by neutral professional air force. you can say paf evaluated them. if it was good paf would have purchased them instead of sucking up to the americans for f-16s

J-10 was going to cost 65 million per plane and it cost money to invest in new plateform. Instead of getting J-10, Paf is incorporating it's technology in Jf-17.
From the previous disscussions with Chinese friends, J-11 wasn't officially offered to Pakistan and it if did, Pakistan had an issue with Engine, Pakistan does not want chinese engine and Russians are not willing to sell the engine to Pakistan.
 
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In this case what is the definition of an unprofessional air force ??

You brought in the arguments. And those Chinese birds are only flown by them or what?


It would be one that does not have the money or capability to induct and operate a high performance combat aircraft. Burma would one. Zimbabwe might be another.

What this has to do with Chinese birds evaluation? What do you want to say as you brought in the argument that the bird is not evaluated by neutral professional airforce, so what is your claim.


The PAF is professional force.

Then you are stating this.


They are not neutral bystanders. They won't say in public anything negative about Chinese aircraft.

Why would a professional AirForce would do that after all, the process is to evaluate if found fit then procure or leave it due to any lacks and inform the manufacturer rather than defaming and propaganda in public. How to say anything in public about any A/C from your friendly country, for the sake of arguments and why? Why India did not make it public about Russian A/C weaknesses and short comings even after many crashes and are still going for Rafale? Chinese birds are not proven but still India fears and buying everything that it can but why, you think only to bring down the unproven birds?


In the case of F-35 countries are buying an un-proven aircraft.

You just rebutted your own argument of not buying unproven aircraft.



they are banking on the track record & ability of Lockheed and Uncle Sam to deliver a high quality product.

LM and US are not the world alone but that matters nations who they are liking and dealing with. You have just answered your own argument about PAF being not neutral bystanders and wouldn't say anything in public because it is the case in favour of China for us as you stated here. You have issues with China doesn't mean that everyone should have.



lots of different countries have evaluated the rafale and su-30. i am sure they are shortcomings. countries are using their own money to purchase these combat aircraft. that speaks for itself

Everyone is using own money or you have something on your mind that you are not sharing with us here. why the countries, even with all that shortcoming purchasing the unproven AirCrafts. US never acknowledged any Russian fighter as proven but you have them so why is that so.


Stop undermining others and respect to have respect.
 
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Sorry just some offtopic news to confirm.

Russia had refuses to take part in the joint exercise with the Pakistan, which was going to held in Azad Kashmir, and they have also cancelled the MI-35 chooper deal.

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy can you confirm this.
 
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Sorry just some offtopic news to confirm.

Russia had refuses to take part in the joint exercise with the Pakistan, which was going to held in Azad Kashmir, and they have also cancelled the MI-35 chooper deal.

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy can you confirm this.

Are you certain of these NEWS?

Indian newspaper are reporting that Russia and France have outright blamed Pakistan and Pakistan based outfits for Uri attacks and called for action against LeT,JeM, and Hizbul. It is just that I wanted to confirm that it is true as sometime Indian newspapers get ahead of themselves.
 
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Are you certain of these NEWS?

Indian newspaper are reporting that Russia and France have outright blamed Pakistan and Pakistan based outfits for Uri attacks and called for action against LeT,JeM, and Hizbul. It is just that I wanted to confirm that it is true as sometime Indian newspapers get ahead of themselves.

Well I watched news yesterday a hindi news channel, but don't want to jump to the conclusion yet, that why I am not sure yet.
 
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Sorry just some offtopic news to confirm.

Russia had refuses to take part in the joint exercise with the Pakistan, which was going to held in Azad Kashmir, and they have also cancelled the MI-35 chooper deal.

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy can you confirm this.

Before posting here, you should have done your home work and an official statement quoted by source would suffice though such is nothing but rumor and Indian Media stunt.


Russia shoots down Indian plea for Pak drills cancellation [The Nation] 21 Sep, 2016


Islamabad - India’s campaign to isolate Pakistan at the international level suffered the first setback as Russia rejected its diplomatic plea to cancel joint military exercise with Pakistan beginning from Saturday.

“Reports of cancellation of exercise are incorrect.
The joint military exercise will be held as per scheduled, from 24 September,” Pakistan’s Ambassador to Russia Qazi Khalilullah told The Nation.

The clarification from Pakistan’s ambassador to Russia comes after Indian media propagated that Moscow had cancelled its joint military drill with Pakistan in response to a letter from Indian Ministry of External Affairs seeking cancelation of Russian military joint exercise with Pakistan.

Ambassador was taken by surprise over the baseless Indian propaganda saying Pakistan enjoys excellent friendly relations with Russian Federation.

“Both Pakistan and Russia have developed their bilateral cooperation in various fields including political, economic and defence fields,” Ambassador Qazi Khalilullah added.

Pakistan is in the process of procuring Russian helicopters, while Russian companies have secured a multi-billion dollars project to lay LNG gas pipeline from south to north.

Foreign Office Spokesman Nafees Zakaria also rejected the Indian claim regarding cancellation of exercise.

According to a statement issued by the Foreign Office in Islamabad, Zakaria said the Pak-Russia joint military exercise will be held as per schedule.

He said that India is spreading false propaganda regarding cancellation of the exercise by Russia.

Around 200 military personnel from Russia and Pakistan will participate in the exercise.
Both sides have revealed little else about the drill, dubbed Friendship 2016, except that it will take place in mountainous areas.

The fact that the exercise takes place in mountainous terrain could be an indication that Russia is interested in learning from Pakistan’s military counterinsurgency (COIN) operations.

The military exercise is a clear signal that Moscow and Islamabad are interested in deepening military-to-military relations.
This obviously indicates a desire on both sides to broaden defence and military-technical cooperation.

New Delhi has stepped up efforts to diplomatically isolate Pakistan in the aftermath of the attack on an Indian army camp in Uri in the Indian-occupied Kashmir which killed 18 soldiers.

Eighteen soldiers died in Sunday’s attack, which was the worst of its kind to hit the divided Himalayan region in more than a decade and has increased hostility between the nuclear-armed neighbours.

Occasional violations of a 2003 ceasefire between the nuclear-armed rivals are not uncommon.
The last was reported on September 6 this year and caused no casualties.

Tens of thousands of people have died in the fighting, most of them civilians.

Out of its sheer frustration, India blamed Pakistan for the Uri incident in its bid to malign Pakistan as terror sponsoring state, while Pakistan rejecting the allegation blamed India of using the incident to sidetrack its record of atrocities and human right violations in the occupied Kashmir.

Pakistan also believes that Indian intelligence agency RAW which has been openly trying to destabilise Pakistan by sponsoring terror incidents has been in the habit of creating false flags such as the one in Uri to malign Pakistan.

“Ever since Pakistan had arrested a senior RAW operative from Balochistan, Indian intelligence agency has been doing all this out of its sheer frustration,” sources said.





Published in The Nation newspaper on 21-Sep-2016
http://nation.com.pk/national/21-Sep-2016/russia-shoots-down-indian-plea-for-pak-drills-cancellation



Only Indian media outlets are calling for such cancellation yet Pakistan media outlet, quoting the foreign Secretary and foreign office and under mentioned is India media quoting through several media outlets only.

Meanwhile, several Indian media reports have claimed that Russia has cancelled "Druzhba-2016," its first joint military exercises with Pakistan, which was supposed to be held from 24 September to 7 October.
 
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There is a higher probability of Su-35 being sold to China and then it being sold to Pakistan after couple of years. This is the most probable route, IF the plane is coming to Pakistan.
It won't be possible my friend, Russi won't allow.

Pakistan can't count on Russi cause India has deal with Russi under the table.

J-10 was going to cost 65 million per plane and it cost money to invest in new plateform. Instead of getting J-10, Paf is incorporating it's technology in Jf-17.
From the previous disscussions with Chinese friends, J-11 wasn't officially offered to Pakistan and it if did, Pakistan had an issue with Engine, Pakistan does not want chinese engine and Russians are not willing to sell the engine to Pakistan.
It's not about the engine, current domestic WS10G is very much up to mark. It's about China had promised to Russia that we won't sell Chinese flanker to third country. When push come to shove, maybe we will sell J11b to PAF. If Russia not happy with us selling J11b to PAF, they can sell Su35.

J-11 has a long history.
Russia sold downgraded version of Su-27 to China then China copied it as J-11. Now if PAF is going to buy it , that would be downgrade version of J-11. It means PAF is going to buy downgrade version of downgraded Su-27. I think the same JF-17 can be much better. Seriously
Should go for J11b or J11d, actually J11 is gonna be retired cause the avionics system is obsolete product. The current J11b/D is totally different fighter with the Su27SK Russi sold to us.
 
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