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No Easy Indian Response to Pakistan’s Troop Shift

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No Easy Indian Response to Pakistan’s Troop Shift
newyorktimes.com

By SOMINI SENGUPTA
Published: December 28, 2008

NEW DELHI — Though tensions have risen in the past few days, neither India’s governing coalition led by the Congress Party nor its habitually hawkish political opposition is advocating a military confrontation with Pakistan, the country’s neighbor and archrival.

Pakistan’s redeployment of troops late last week to its border with India, from its tribal areas in the northwest, raised fears. The troop movement came a month after the attacks in Mumbai, India’s financial capital, which India says were orchestrated by Pakistan-based militants.

Fear of a conflict in South Asia is unlikely to pass quickly, as Pakistan has resisted a broad crackdown on the militants India says were behind the Mumbai assault.

But for India, many here say, the cost is too high, not just because both sides have nuclear arms. As an Indian official put it, “Almost anything against Pakistan would be messy.”
The Mumbai attacks prompted bellicose outbursts from the Indian news media and led Indian officials to state that their “restraint” should not be mistaken for “weakness.” Yet even a surgical strike on terrorists’ training camps in Pakistan, one of the options floated in the immediate aftermath of the attack, would bring unwanted risks, according to policy makers and analysts.

They say it could damage India’s economic prospects at a time when the country is vulnerable to the global downturn.

Moreover, past military engagements with Pakistan strengthened the political influence of Pakistan’s Army and weakened its civilian government. Many in India say they are reluctant to do anything to undermine civilian rule there.

“The Pakistan military is itching for a fight,” said Lalit Mansingh, a retired Indian ambassador to the United States. “That will give them the excuse not to carry on the fight on Afghanistan.”:lol:
This time, he said, the Indian government is left with no choice but to mount a diplomatic offensive against Pakistan, in part by appealing to some of its most stalwart allies, like Saudi Arabia, China and the United States. “People realize war would be more costly in its impact,” Mr. Mansingh said.
In that sense, the stakes for the next American president, Barack Obama, are potentially as high as they are for India. A new spike in tension would give the Pakistani Army the rationale it needs to refocus its energy on the eastern flank. The United States has strongly urged Pakistan to concentrate instead on fighting Islamic militants along its western border with Afghanistan.
The calculus is complicated by India’s need to project itself as a world power that cannot be seen as doing nothing in the face of the terrorist attack that killed 163 people, including nearly two dozen foreigners, in Mumbai a month ago.

The Indian government insists that the gunmen, including the sole survivor, were Pakistani. It has sent Pakistan a letter that India says he wrote requesting assistance from his home country. The government in Islamabad says it cannot confirm that the man is a Pakistani.

Nor has Islamabad agreed to India’s chief demand to date: to turn over suspects implicated in this and prior attacks.

Pakistan’s president, Asif Ali Zardari, said Saturday that his government would rein in extremist groups, but “not on your démarche,” a clear reference to India. Pakistani officials have also gone on record as saying they do not want war.

The troops Pakistan moved toward India, believed to number several thousand, represent only a small fraction of its military presence in the northwest. But a Taliban suicide bombing at a polling place in Pakistan on Sunday served as a reminder of the risks of taking too many troops away from battling insurgents inside the country.
One of Pakistan’s leading newspapers, Dawn, editorialized Sunday that the army “just cannot afford to redeploy any large number of its troops” and thus leave “the ‘wild’ west in a free fall.”:crazy:
Indians point out that their most recent effort to mobilize troops on the border with Pakistan did not end terror attacks. That occurred after a suicide attack on the Indian Parliament in December 2001. It ended in early 2004 with a peace deal, which has been effectively suspended since the Mumbai strike.
“You can’t fire the same bullet twice,” said Arun Shourie, a member of Parliament from the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party, or B.J.P., which was in power at the time. In a speech in Parliament last week, Mr. Shourie said neither a punitive airstrike nor a conventional troop mobilization was viable now.
The only safeguard against a future attack, he offered, would be to “do a Kashmir on Pakistan” — to provide aid to insurgents against the Pakistani state inside its restive provinces, including Baluchistan in the west. :tsk:

The Indian official who warned that almost any action would be messy, speaking on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to discuss strategic matters with the news media, said the 2001 standoff had accomplished little and resulted in “hundreds” of casualties among Indian troops.

“It didn’t achieve anything last time,” he said. “It didn’t scare off the Pakistanis.” :partay:
But whether the United States can or will lean hard enough on the Pakistani Army is hotly debated. Kanwal Sibal, a former foreign secretary of India, said he doubted that the Obama administration would impose conditions on future aid to Pakistan, which Islamabad needs to supplement its strained budget and finance military operations. :enjoy:
Sudheendra Kulkarni, a B.J.P. leader writing in The Indian Express on Sunday, said that it was pointless to expect the United States to “fight our battle.” :tup::lol::agree:

Yet the real crisis, argued Stephen P. Cohen, a South Asia expert at the Brookings Institution in Washington, is Pakistan’s inability to control what happens inside its territory. For India, a military strike seems unlikely to change that situation, he said. “It’s hard to find a military way of responding,” Mr. Cohen said.

Richard A. Oppel Jr. contributed reporting from Islamabad, Pakistan.

Correction: An earlier version of this article incorrectly identified Asif Ali Zardari. He is Pakistan’s president, not prime minister.
 
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No Easy Indian Response to Pakistan’s Troop Shift
newyorktimes.com

By SOMINI SENGUPTA
Published: December 28, 2008

NEW DELHI — Though tensions have risen in the past few days, neither India’s governing coalition led by the Congress Party nor its habitually hawkish political opposition is advocating a military confrontation with Pakistan, the country’s neighbor and archrival.

Pakistan’s redeployment of troops late last week to its border with India, from its tribal areas in the northwest, raised fears. The troop movement came a month after the attacks in Mumbai, India’s financial capital, which India says were orchestrated by Pakistan-based militants.


You see how the Indians spread lies & deceitful statements :-

It is a FACT that FIRST :-
- India moved troops to Rajhistan.
- India gave ultimatem with dates
- India gave threats of strikes in Pakistan including surgical ones.
- Indian IAF loaded planes intrudend in our airspace.

While all the time Pakistani democratically elected leaders kept on talking calm, peace & cooperation.

but now that we have equalled their actions, now India is claiming to be a peace loving & matured state.

This is the true baniya way of bad mouthing an opponent. Always attacking from the back. Not having the balls to once for all taking up the responsibility of aggression.

Just like at the time "Instrument of Accession" dates etc ...
 
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No Easy Indian Response to Pakistan’s Troop Shift
newyorktimes.com

By SOMINI SENGUPTA
Published: December 28, 2008

NEW DELHI — Though tensions have risen in the past few days, neither India’s governing coalition led by the Congress Party nor its habitually hawkish political opposition is advocating a military confrontation with Pakistan, the country’s neighbor and archrival.

Pakistan’s redeployment of troops late last week to its border with India, from its tribal areas in the northwest, raised fears. The troop movement came a month after the attacks in Mumbai, India’s financial capital, which India says were orchestrated by Pakistan-based militants.

Fear of a conflict in South Asia is unlikely to pass quickly, as Pakistan has resisted a broad crackdown on the militants India says were behind the Mumbai assault.

But for India, many here say, the cost is too high, not just because both sides have nuclear arms. As an Indian official put it, “Almost anything against Pakistan would be messy.”
The Mumbai attacks prompted bellicose outbursts from the Indian news media and led Indian officials to state that their “restraint” should not be mistaken for “weakness.” Yet even a surgical strike on terrorists’ training camps in Pakistan, one of the options floated in the immediate aftermath of the attack, would bring unwanted risks, according to policy makers and analysts.

They say it could damage India’s economic prospects at a time when the country is vulnerable to the global downturn.

Moreover, past military engagements with Pakistan strengthened the political influence of Pakistan’s Army and weakened its civilian government. Many in India say they are reluctant to do anything to undermine civilian rule there.

“The Pakistan military is itching for a fight,” said Lalit Mansingh, a retired Indian ambassador to the United States. “That will give them the excuse not to carry on the fight on Afghanistan.”:lol:
This time, he said, the Indian government is left with no choice but to mount a diplomatic offensive against Pakistan, in part by appealing to some of its most stalwart allies, like Saudi Arabia, China and the United States. “People realize war would be more costly in its impact,” Mr. Mansingh said.
In that sense, the stakes for the next American president, Barack Obama, are potentially as high as they are for India. A new spike in tension would give the Pakistani Army the rationale it needs to refocus its energy on the eastern flank. The United States has strongly urged Pakistan to concentrate instead on fighting Islamic militants along its western border with Afghanistan.
The calculus is complicated by India’s need to project itself as a world power that cannot be seen as doing nothing in the face of the terrorist attack that killed 163 people, including nearly two dozen foreigners, in Mumbai a month ago.

The Indian government insists that the gunmen, including the sole survivor, were Pakistani. It has sent Pakistan a letter that India says he wrote requesting assistance from his home country. The government in Islamabad says it cannot confirm that the man is a Pakistani.

Nor has Islamabad agreed to India’s chief demand to date: to turn over suspects implicated in this and prior attacks.

Pakistan’s president, Asif Ali Zardari, said Saturday that his government would rein in extremist groups, but “not on your démarche,” a clear reference to India. Pakistani officials have also gone on record as saying they do not want war.

The troops Pakistan moved toward India, believed to number several thousand, represent only a small fraction of its military presence in the northwest. But a Taliban suicide bombing at a polling place in Pakistan on Sunday served as a reminder of the risks of taking too many troops away from battling insurgents inside the country.
One of Pakistan’s leading newspapers, Dawn, editorialized Sunday that the army “just cannot afford to redeploy any large number of its troops” and thus leave “the ‘wild’ west in a free fall.”:crazy:
Indians point out that their most recent effort to mobilize troops on the border with Pakistan did not end terror attacks. That occurred after a suicide attack on the Indian Parliament in December 2001. It ended in early 2004 with a peace deal, which has been effectively suspended since the Mumbai strike.
“You can’t fire the same bullet twice,” said Arun Shourie, a member of Parliament from the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party, or B.J.P., which was in power at the time. In a speech in Parliament last week, Mr. Shourie said neither a punitive airstrike nor a conventional troop mobilization was viable now.
The only safeguard against a future attack, he offered, would be to “do a Kashmir on Pakistan” — to provide aid to insurgents against the Pakistani state inside its restive provinces, including Baluchistan in the west. :tsk:

The Indian official who warned that almost any action would be messy, speaking on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to discuss strategic matters with the news media, said the 2001 standoff had accomplished little and resulted in “hundreds” of casualties among Indian troops.

“It didn’t achieve anything last time,” he said. “It didn’t scare off the Pakistanis.” :partay:
But whether the United States can or will lean hard enough on the Pakistani Army is hotly debated. Kanwal Sibal, a former foreign secretary of India, said he doubted that the Obama administration would impose conditions on future aid to Pakistan, which Islamabad needs to supplement its strained budget and finance military operations. :enjoy:
Sudheendra Kulkarni, a B.J.P. leader writing in The Indian Express on Sunday, said that it was pointless to expect the United States to “fight our battle.”

Yet the real crisis, argued Stephen P. Cohen, a South Asia expert at the Brookings Institution in Washington, is Pakistan’s inability to control what happens inside its territory. For India, a military strike seems unlikely to change that situation, he said. “It’s hard to find a military way of responding,” Mr. Cohen said.

Richard A. Oppel Jr. contributed reporting from Islamabad, Pakistan.

Correction: An earlier version of this article incorrectly identified Asif Ali Zardari. He is Pakistan’s president, not prime minister.

Khasyani billi khamba nocha, this example suits very fit to what the Indians aer going through.:lol:
 
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These reports are quite unconfirmed and owing to our coalition politcal compulsion may not take off the ground

India offers US 120,000 troops for Afghanistan

Our trusty correspondent, Mandeep Singh Bajwa, informed us this morning that India has offered to send 120,000 troops to Afghanistan [Slugger: Correction: India is contemplating making this offer to the Americans]. Naturally we asked Mandeep "are we being used by the Indians in a psyops game to put pressure on Pakistan?" Not that the Government of India knows we exist, but in all the movies about the media the Editor always asks if the paper is being played.

Mandeep's answer, paraphrased, was this: "I don't know at what level the offer has been made, but the Indian Army and Air Force are down to identifying specific units, formations, and squadrons..." - details, as we said, at Long War Journal - "...as well as discussing a specific name for force commander, plus working on the details of pre-deployment training, so this is a lot more elaborate than needed for a psyops game.'

We'd prefer to discuss this after we learn more, rather than waste your time with elaborate theories spun out of nothing ("Orbat.com's military sources say..."). But the following points are immediately apparent.

For the new US administration, this offer would be heaven-sent and just making it would put the US Government in debt to the Indians - "your other friends/allies talked, we walked." The administration could turn around to to its own people, and say: "Americans, you complain we are carrying the Afghan burden by ourselves, now we have a partner."

At Orbat.com we've been constantly talking about the need for more manpower; well, here you have a whacking big increment of manpower. With US/Allied troops it takes one to 75% of what Orbat.com considers a minimum force if Afghanistan is to be won.

In one deft swoop, India forces the Americans to chose Delhi over Islamabad. To the Indians the constant US attempt to "balance" the two countries has been a source of serious blood pressure since the 1940s; obviously if the Americans accept it has to be India First from now on and Pakistan gets marginalized. Moreover, the Indians put America up the creek without the paddle regarding Pakistan: "what is it your so-called ally is doing, compared to what we are willing to do."

The devious cunning of the Indian move becomes more apparent when you consider if the US government refuses, the American people are going to get on the Government's case: "The Indians are offering and you're still sticking with those slimey two-timers the Pakistanis?"

For India, offering a huge contingent takes the pressure off the Indian government to act aggressively against Pakistan. India does not have a launch a single sortie against Pakistan to punish it for acting against India. Indian government can tell its own people: "What good will a pinprick do? The Israelis have been bashing up the Palestinians for two decades, and where are the results? What we are doing is to strike a hard blow at Pakistan without crossing the Pakistan border and getting beat up by everyone for provoking war."

Plus India neatly destroys Pakistan's strategic depth objective. The Indians have been wanting to get into the act in Afghanistan for several years, because they know a Taliban government means more fundamentalist pressure on Pakistan and thereby on India. But the Americans have been refusing India help for fear of offending the Pakistanis. For India to get into Afghanistan in force is to again change the paradigm of Indian-Pakistani relations as happened in 1971 when India split East Bengal from Pakistan. For the last almost 40 years India's efforts to marginalize Pakistan have been stymied. If the US accepts the Indian offer, India gains hugely.

But right now a lot of American decision-makers do not care if Pakistan is offended because they see the latter has no interest in fighting the insurgents or helping the US against the Taliban. Once alternate supply routes are available, US can write off Pakistan and as a consequence, paradoxically, vastly increase its leverage in that country.

As for Pakistani/jihadi retaliation against India or the Indian contingent in Afghanistan, we've said before the Indians don't care. Their point is India is squarely in the sights of the jihadis: India is already under severe, sustained attack and unable to retaliate. As for the security of the Indian troops, that really is the last thing the Indians are concerned about. They want to go to Afghanistan to fight, not to protect their troops against suicide bombers.

Two other minor points in passing. By making this offer, India takes the wind out of Pakistan's sails because the latter has very successful turned the world's attention from the Bombay atrocity to getting the world to stop escalation between India and Pakistan. Every day that goes by, India has less diplomatic/geopolitical freedom to hit Pakistan. But if India has offered several divisions for Afghanistan, obviously the last thing the Indians are thinking of is attacking Pakistan - 3/4th of the Army troops (as opposed to the CI troops) India is earmarking for Afghanistan are from the three strike corps. So India undercuts Pakistani claims that Delhi is preparing to attack.

The second point we find interesting. PRC knows if Pakistan falls to the jihadis, Sinkiang is the next target. By offering to go to Afghanistan, India is directly helping Beijing. Which puts Beijing in a very awkward spot as India is a big rival for influence in Asia. Not only will Indians be helping PRC, if China does send troops to Afghanistan, Delhi will canoodle with Washington without competition from China. Chinese will have no choice but to join the Afghan venture or lose influence in South and Central Asia, and with Washington.

To sum up: Orbat.com has been second to none in bashing the Government of India as incompetent and impotent. But with this offer, India has overnight changed the rules of game in South/Central Asia and struck a potentially fatal blow at Pakistan. In the end, this could become much, much bigger by an order of magnitude than breaking off East Pakistan in 1971.
source
 
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These reports are quite unconfirmed and owing to our coalition politcal compulsion may not take off the ground

India offers US 120,000 troops for Afghanistan


source

slugger; dear sir!
thats what uncle "sam" & uncle "tom" were good at, pitching brother against brother, simple infact , DIVIDE & RULE!:tsk::lol:

But ,i guss it is not going to happen, cause there wouldbe a huge impact, RUSSIA will never going to like it, CHINA surly wouldbe against it,& it will going to make IRAN very angry?

so, it could become ! all win win for pakistan!;):enjoy:
 
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These reports are quite unconfirmed and owing to our coalition politcal compulsion may not take off the ground

India offers US 120,000 troops for Afghanistan


source

This would be a dream come true for Pakistan. Go ahead to wield more influence with america but that will be a 62 for you not 71 for Pakistan. :lol: But the problem is that there are still saner people around in India so this is not gonna happen.
 
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