Nizami’s death penalty not fair governance: Erdoğan

[Joe Shearer]

You are creating a controversy where none exist



It is a matter of perspective really

When I read it and realised you were being mischievous and trolling the trollable, I groaned and held my head, in anticipation of the firestorm. The reaction has been fairly muted, and more like the roar of a match-stick, so maybe I was worried unnecessarily. Still, it was a very mischievous thing to do.

 

[Loafer]

As the successor of the last legitimate Khilafah the last greatest empire that world has ever witnessed, the last bastion of Ahlu sunnah Wal Jamaah, it befalls on Istanbul to stand up for for the opressed muslim majority in all nations

Therefore it is of our business. All ahlu Sunnah wal Jamaah struggles for independence, right and dignity is our struggle as well.

Why don't you take all Muslims away them in your country?

No Muslim will suffer and Kuffar will leave in Peace.

Allah will be happy.

 

[jaunty]

As the successor of the last legitimate Khilafah the last greatest empire that world has ever witnessed, the last bastion of Ahlu sunnah Wal Jamaah, it befalls on Istanbul to stand up for for the opressed muslim majority in all nations

Therefore it is of our business. All ahlu Sunnah wal Jamaah struggles for independence, right and dignity is our struggle as well.

Sir, you seem to suffer from this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions

I wish you good health!

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Sir, you seem to suffer from this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions

I wish you good health!

Opening a book, even if once in a while is good for your overall health. Learn about history and take a look into the great Ottoman Empire, there are many lessons to be taught.

 

[jaunty]

Opening a book, even if once in a while is good for your overall health. Learn about history and take a look into the great Ottoman Empire, there are many lessons to be taught.

Living in the present is even better. It's been a century since the dissolution of Ottoman Empire. Wake up and smell the coffee! No one in Bangladesh gives a remote fukk about what your Sultan has to say on their internal matter, a few left over Pakistanis notwithstanding. If this was against the will of the people, there would have been widespread riot. Instead most people are happy about it. Here is a reality check for you- you do not matter!

 

[Zulkarneyn]

, there would have been widespread riot

Things progress gradually, everything is not put into motion immediatly after certain events. One lesson you might take from reading history and the development of politically motivated events. You are ignoring a certain faction of Bangladeshi public that doesn't accept the executions to be just and have a different view than the current powerholders. Time will tell

 

[Joe Shearer]

Living in the present is even better. It's been a century since the dissolution of Ottoman Empire. Wake up and smell the coffee! No one in Bangladesh gives a remote fukk about what your Sultan has to say on their internal matter, a few left over Pakistanis notwithstanding. If this was against the will of the people, there would have been widespread riot. Instead most people are happy about you. Here is a reality check for you- you do not matter!

The greatest hero of the Turks in modern times, a man whom the great Jinnah idolised, was Ataturk, who kicked aside the debris of the Ottoman Empire and their decaying religiosity to build a glorious new, modern Turkey. It is the sickening mediaevalism of the Islamists that has caused the decay of the modern Turkey, the same sentiments that we have seen just a post before.

Things progress gradually, everything is not put into motion immediatly after certain events. One lesson you might take from reading history and the development of politically motivated events. You are ignoring a certain faction of Bangladeshi public that doesn't accept the executions to be just and have a different view than the current powerholders. Time will tell

There is always a backward, primitive section of society in every society. Their equivalent in modern-day Norway, for instance, is the mass-murderer and self-avowed Fascist, Anders Behring Breivik. It would be nice to put these extreme lunatic fringe people together and let them sort themselves out.

You could contribute usefully to the discussion.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

who kicked aside the debris of the Ottoman Empire and their decaying religiosity to build a glorious new, modern Turkey.

Please don't embarass yourself. Your historical knowledge is in dire need of update if you think the Young Turk revolution of 1907-1908 and the creation of the Turkish Republic in 1923 can only be credited to a single man. Things towards progress were set in motion by Ottoman beuracrats starting from early 19th century, the Tanzimat reforms, constitutionality in mid 1850s, establishing a parliamentary system and such. Turkey has not emerged out of thin air, it is a direct continuation of Ottoman Empire, those proceses that led to the creation of Republic in 1923 were an ongoing process for centuries.

If i have to take you seriously on historical matters on Ottoman Empire or Turkey you first need to update yourself in these fields. I can recommend Erik Zurcher's The Young Turks Legacy.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Please don't embarass yourself. Your historical knowledge is in dire need of update if you think the Young Turk revolution of 1907-1908 and the creation of the Turkish Republic in 1923 can only be credited to a single man. Things towards progress were set in motion by Ottoman beuracrats starting from early 19th century, the Tanzimat reforms, constitutionality in mid 1850s, establishing a parliamentary system and such. Turkey has not emerged out of thin air, it is a direct continuation of Ottoman Empire, those proceses that led to the creation of Republic in 1923 were an ongoing process for centuries.

If i have to take you seriously on historical matters on Ottoman Empire or Turkey you first need to update yourself in these fields. I can recommend Erik Zurcher's The Young Turks Legacy.

Thank you for your support and assistance. I had had enough of it in college. What the Young Turks did was to break away dramatically from the gradual progress that Ottoman Turkey had attempted in its decaying years as the 'sick man of Europe'. Tracing their work back fifty years to the futile attempts of the Empire to modernise merely highlights that the major contribution of this failed attempt at modernising was the creation of a sufficiently educated segment of the ruling classes, a segment that examined the Empire, and its attempts at modernising, and dismissed them contemptuously in favour of a vastly radical and pointedly anti-religious model.

The Young Turks were a group, all right, but which of them even approached Ataturk in any way? Just as we might ask, who of the Muslim leadership of Pakistan even approached Jinnah in any way?

 

[Zulkarneyn]

The Young Turks were a group, all right, but which of them even approached Ataturk in any way?

Most of the elites of Young Turks and CUP leadership, following the defeat of the Great War were either exiled or imprisoned. Names like Adnan Adivar, Enver Pasha and such. The problem with the history you probably have read in your classrooms are mostly that of official Turkish historiography, a history on the verge of pure propaganda. Ataturks undertook extreme measures to take the credit for the War of Independence, this is evident in his Nutuk, a complete work of Kemal's writing on Ottoman-Turkey's war of independence.

Figures from CUP/Young Turks approached him, but upon realizning the threats they posed to the newly established narrative of the newly birthed Republic he imprisoned most and silenced them. I'm not against Kemal's reforms and his struggle. I'm purely against fabrication and revisionism of history. That's why you need to wear critical lenses and take these official historiography of Republic, which in its initial years functioned as dictatorship, due to the transition, with a grain of salt

 

[Anubis]

Pakistan is in violation of the 1974 agreement by not taking back the Bihari population from BD.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Most of the elites of Young Turks and CUP leadership, following the defeat of the Great War were either exiled or imprisoned. Names like Adnan Adivar, Enver Pasha and such. The problem with the history you probably have read in your classrooms are mostly that of official Turkish historiography, a history on the verge of pure propaganda. Ataturks undertook extreme measures to take the credit for the War of Independence, this is evident in his Nutuk, a complete work of Kemal's writing on Ottoman-Turkey's war of independence.

Figures from CUP/Young Turks approached him, but upon realizning the threats they posed to the newly established narrative of the newly birthed Republic he imprisoned most and silenced them. I'm not against Kemal's reforms and his struggle. I'm purely against fabrication and revisionism of history. That's why you need to wear critical lenses and take these official historiography of Republic, which in its initial years functioned as dictatorship, due to the transition, with a grain of salt

Points well made. I see that you are deeper read and better informed on Turkish historiography than I had suspected. I know about Ataturk's ruthless dealings with his former peers, and his concentration of power, which by itself allows for his exaggerated praise to be viewed with scepticism. Fair enough, their official hagiography will be taken with a pinch of salt. Having said that, his true achievement was not merely military, although that, beyond the propaganda, is material and not to be deprecated, his true achievement was more in the sphere of modernising and reforms.

The process that you describe is, of course, a familiar one in each and every revolution, without exception: the English, the French, (not the American), the south American (in all its distinctive sections), the Russian, as you have now mentioned, the Turkish, the Chinese, the Egyptian - remarkably consistent in how the initial narrow elite narrowed down even further to the one. Without exception. I had known that Ataturk rose to power after disabling or imprisoning his peers. However, his military achievements are attested by independent sources, and there is little reason to doubt his achievements either at Gallipoli or later, against the Greeks, in a more remote capacity.

Your point about the Republic initially having functioned as a dictatorship is well made, again, and is an ironic undertone to Jinnah's admiration of Ataturk and his achievements, in that it preshadowed, in a way that the great man never could have imagined, the future of Pakistan herself.

I must be more careful about your posts.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Points well made. I see that you are deeper read and better informed on Turkish historiography than I had suspected. I know about Ataturk's ruthless dealings with his former peers, and his concentration of power, which by itself allows for his exaggerated praise to be viewed with scepticism. Fair enough, their official hagiography will be taken with a pinch of salt. Having said that, his true achievement was not merely military, although that, beyond the propaganda, is material and not to be deprecated, his true achievement was more in the sphere of modernising and reforms.

The process that you describe is, of course, a familiar one in each and every revolution, without exception: the English, the French, (not the American), the south American (in all its distinctive sections), the Russian, as you have now mentioned, the Turkish, the Chinese, the Egyptian - remarkably consistent in how the initial narrow elite narrowed down even further to the one. Without exception. I had known that Ataturk rose to power after disabling or imprisoning his peers. However, his military achievements are attested by independent sources, and there is little reason to doubt his achievements either at Gallipoli or later, against the Greeks, in a more remote capacity.

Your point about the Republic initially having functioned as a dictatorship is well made, again, and is an ironic undertone to Jinnah's admiration of Ataturk and his achievements, in that it preshadowed, in a way that the great man never could have imagined, the future of Pakistan herself.

I must be more careful about your posts.

I agree with all of your points. It seems after all some great minds converge

 

[Joe Shearer]

I agree with all of your points. It seems after all some great minds converge

I should have noticed that you are Turkish yourself, and proceeded with caution. A lesson learnt.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

I should have noticed that you are Turkish yourself, and proceeded with caution. A lesson learnt.

I don't hold you accountable, this is PDF, i've yet to meet a fellow like you here