New York Times: Squeezed by an India-China Standoff, Bhutan Holds Its Breath

[Dungeness]

Like I have said, you have not been to Nepal and have not talked to the Nepalese and seen how fluent they are in Hindi. And I am not talking about the Madeshi (who are not "new immigrants") either, I am talking about the hill people who all mix in Kathmandu.

When you rely exclusively on the media to spoonfeed your cherrypicking, well the hypocrisy is simply there for all to see regarding that.

Just because many Nepalese speak Hindi, doesn't mean they don't have resentment on how India has been dominating their country. Chinese would not assume that Singaporeans love China because they speak Mandarin.

In the age of information, we all are cherry-picking what we believe is true through media. Otherwise, you and I would have had the same stand on everything, right? Even we had a chance to be on the ground, you and I probably would come to different conclusions on the same issue. I read through different reputable sources of information, pro/anti/3rd party, to reduce the bias and stereotype.

NYT is a 3rd party this time, so it should be closer to the neutrality than either Chinese media or Indian Media.

 

[Jlaw]

Harmless India, cash cow for everybody. It should be the reason.
But now, maybe China need take India as a evil hegemony in South-Asia. China need feel obligate to do something for South-Asia.

Harmless I don't know. If a mouth canker become worse, it's cancerous. Than you got trouble

 

[Nilgiri]

Just because many Nepalese speak Hindi, doesn't mean they don't have resentment on how India has been dominating their country. Chinese would not assume that Singaporeans love China because they speak Mandarin.

In the age of information, we all are cherry-picking what we believe is true through media. Otherwise, you and I would have had the same stand on everything, right? Even we had a chance to be on the ground, you and I probably would come to different conclusions on the same issue. I read through different reputable sources of information, pro/anti/3rd party, to reduce the bias and stereotype.

NYT is a 3rd party this time, so it should be closer to the neutrality than either Chinese media or Indian Media.

Sorry the media has lied one too many times to me. I avoid it all together for forming any kind of opinion now. Basically the anti-thesis of cherry picking is what I use now.....I explore all sides and arguments and am very mindful of how the media distorts.

To make the argument on the ground, you would have to actually go to the ground in the first place. One nepali radio DJ (as far I know didn't have any inherent bias for or against the issue) interviewed regular passer-bys in Kathmandu during the worst part of the madhesi border blockade thing....the overall spread of opinions was diverse, but overall came to pretty interesting result (even those that identified India as some evil entity at say govt level). There is a clear fundamental reason why India and Nepal have complete open borders for their citizens...and why for example the largest population of Nepalis outside Nepal is in the capital of India.

I am basically highly skeptical to anything in the media these days...and yes it also naturally backtracks and persists to include media portrayal of China's govt, society etc...its not like they fundamentally changed...just things now are a lot more polarized on many subjects of debate.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

As if the CHinese would accept the countless articles by NYT on China

Selective Hypocrites....

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

As if the CHinese would accept the countless articles by NYT on China

Selective Hypocrites....

Sorry we're not worship white people like you and your government did, we just teach Indians to have a taste of their own medicine for using western propaganda against Chinas as god blessing word...and now how like when they give the negative view about India...hard to swallow isnt' it

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Sorry we're not worship white people like you and your government did, we just teach Indians to have a taste of their own medicine for using western propaganda against Chinas as god blessing word...and now how like when they give the negative view about India...hard to swallow isnt' it

Lol. Tell that to the organised gangs in USA and CAnada where Chinese are importing illegals next only to the Mexicans. So much for white worship.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/episodes/2013-2014/the-voyage-of-the-black-dragon

Heard about it? Its pretty famous in NA colleges.

 

[sinait]

Lol. Tell that to the organised gangs in USA and CAnada where Chinese are importing illegals next only to the Mexicans. So much for white worship.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/episodes/2013-2014/the-voyage-of-the-black-dragon

Heard about it? Its pretty famous in NA colleges.

You are confusing White worship with the search for a better life.
Nobody is disagreeing that it is easier to earn more in the USA and Canada, in addition to being more sparsely populated and with less pollution.
.

 

[Alphacharlie]

Chinese the Great Massiar of the East...

Bhutan is not by Any Thread Holding its Breath --- They have been giving Statements on a Regular Basis of Chinese Neo Colonism...

 

[Dungeness]

Sorry the media has lied one too many times to me. I avoid it all together for forming any kind of opinion now. Basically the anti-thesis of cherry picking is what I use now.....I explore all sides and arguments and am very mindful of how the media distorts.

To make the argument on the ground, you would have to actually go to the ground in the first place. One nepali radio DJ (as far I know didn't have any inherent bias for or against the issue) interviewed regular passer-bys in Kathmandu during the worst part of the madhesi border blockade thing....the overall spread of opinions was diverse, but overall came to pretty interesting result (even those that identified India as some evil entity at say govt level). There is a clear fundamental reason why India and Nepal have complete open borders for their citizens...and why for example the largest population of Nepalis outside Nepal is in the capital of India.

I am basically highly skeptical to anything in the media these days...and yes it also naturally backtracks and persists to include media portrayal of China's govt, society etc...its not like they fundamentally changed...just things now are a lot more polarized on many subjects of debate.

NYT "lies", CNN "fakes", India has "gutter media" and China media is all "propaganda". So what to believe?

Were you at Doklam when the standoff started? But you did not seem to have any problem to believe the story that "First Bhutanese soldiers were pushed away by Chinese, then they turned to India Army for help"?
My point is, we all "cherry-pick" what we believe is closer to the truth through media, and the critical thinking should play an important part before we form our own opinion, which many people lack, including many of your compatriots.

"Free press" works the best for people who have a "free mind".

By the way, you may also be interested in this article from India Media, to see if Bhutanese (high ranking officials, monks, students, opposition parties, etc) are actually as affectionate about India as you would like to believe, and their views about China.

"As the Doklam crisis continues to linger, Bhutan seems to be drifting away from India. In the capital, THE WEEK finds young Bhutanese openly proclaiming their love for China. Even monks and senior officials are not immune to China’s charm"

http://www.theweek.in/theweek/cover/dangerous-liaison.html

 

[Dungeness]

A Nepalese point of view on Donglang Standoff in his reply to a Chinese poster on Reddit:

"I don't know if you really are Chinese but you make a good point.. the territory of Doklam is a disputed territory between China and Bhutan not with India.. there are reports that India sent its troops to Doklam without even informing Bhutan which is crazy.. and now we have this standoff.. basically there's zero trust between India and China.. Indians believe that China is trying to control doklam because it's a strategic place to strike siliguri corridor in a event of any war.. China believes Doklam is their territory as per 1890 treaty and that they want to negotiate directly with Bhutan.. Nepal and China also had border disputes but we now have a treaty and no disputes.. China wants to do the same with Bhutan but India won't allow it.. this is a standoff and Nepal is neutral here.. Chinese Deputy prime minister was here recently and he appreciated our position because India is trying to pressure Nepal to ally with it..

Now i have no sympathy for Bhutanese govt which was responsible for ethnic cleansing of Nepali speaking Bhutanese citizens and it was helped by India but.. their frustration is understandable.. in this day and age Bhutan doesn't even have relations with China or any P5 countries.. only India.. one Bhutanese PM tried to change that but then India stopped the fuel supplies and he was badly defeated.. India doesn't care about Bhutan one bit

About China.. now Nepal should expand relations with China and we are doing that but there is constant Indian pressure to back off because expansion of relations between Nepal and China means decrease in Indian influence and they don't want that.. we also signed OBOR.. hopefully a petroleum deal will be there.. the geography is the barrier but once there is rail link things will change.. i certainly along with majority of Nepalis appreciate Chinese non interference in our affairs unlike India.. China welcomed our new constitution and India didn't bcoz Nepali leaders in a very rare event rejected Indian govt order to postpone or cancel constitution promulgation..

Now.. I'm a democrat and i certainly am not a fan of Chinese political system.. i just don't believe in dictatorship of any kind and it will never work in a diverse Country like Nepal.. no one group can rule over others.. China is different because nearly 90% of Chinese are of single ethnic group.. i also know that majority of Chinese are kinda okay with the current political system which is basically state capitalism not communism.. you can own private property in China.. the simple reason is that economy is growing and i think while a lot of Chinese would want more freedom they fear what a sudden democracy will bring with multiple political parties and divisions among others.. they don't want chaos like with Russia in 1990s.. maybe a gradual transition to democracy?? Also.. i will appreciate how much China has come.. back in 1970s China was not even top 20 and now it's second largest economy and growing.. 600 million people out of poverty is no joke by any means.. and what is present in China is a kind of meritocratic dictatorship because you just don't get to be leader of China.. there is a long way.. it's quite a unique system which is why in this day and age of democracy it still survives.. there's no way this system would survive if majority were not happy with it.. you can't control 1.3 billion with fear alone.. internet regulation is a problem in China but hey they have their own Google or Facebook or Twitter and even YouTube.. quite nationalistic i would say..lastly there is big fear among Chinese that if there is sudden democracy it may bring disintegration of China bcoz there may be referendum demands for independence in Tibet or xinjiang.. a lot of Chinese fear that the west wants this.. I'm not justifying Chinese political system but i think it's not as simple as some people thing.. how many Nepalis will want to remain poor forever in a democracy or rise to middle class in a quasi dictatorship?? If it was a binary choice..

Anyway.. i hope Nepal China relations will improve more.."