New Player in the Stealth Game? Turkey Unveils Indigenous TF-X Fifth Generation Fighter

[waqasmwi]

Turkey has publicly unveiled the first mock up of the TF-X fifth generation medium weight stealth fighter - a platform reportedly under development since 2011 by Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI). The design was unveiled at the 2019 Paris Air Show, and should the program succeed it could make Turkey the sixth country to develop a fifth generation fighter domestically. The U.S., China and Russia are currently the only countries to have completed development of fifth generation fighter jets indigenously, while South Korea’s KAI KF-X and the Sino-Pakistani Project AZM appear to be further along in their development than their Turkish counterpart. While the U.S., China and Russia have all developed high end heavyweight fifth generation fighter jets designed for air superiority, the F-22, J-20 and Su-57 respectively, smaller powers have set their sights on lighter and less ambitious designs more comparable in their weight range and capabilities to the American F-35.

(Turkish TF-X Fifth Generation Stealth Fighter Mock Up)

Temel Kotil, the president and CEO of Turkish Aerospace Industries, stated following the unveiling of the mock up at the Paris Air Show: "Our machine is a mock-up, but in 2023 there will be a real machine, and first flight is in 2025, and [it will be in] service in 2028.” Turkey is currently the largest foreign operator of the Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon single engine fourth generation light fighter, and the TF-X is intended to replace the majority of the U.S. manufactured jets from the mid 2020s. Turkey’s ability to successfully develop the fighter remains in some doubt - given the considerable research and development costs required, the small scale of production planned and Turkey’s lack of experience developing combat aircraft. Indeed, considering Turkey’s need to outsource even the relatively simple upgrading of its third generation F-4 fighters abroad to Israel in the 2000s, the ability of the country’s military aviation industry to undertake such an ambitious project remains in serious doubt. Even Pakistan and South Korea for their part - the former with considerable Chinese assistance - have experience developing high end fourth generation fighters domestically in the form of the JF-17 Block 3 and FA-50. This makes prospects for their success in developing a fifth generation fighter appear considerably higher.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...eils-indigenous-tf-x-fifth-generation-fighter

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Its looks hella lot like a F-22 raptor

 

[Mr.NiceGuy]

Its looks hella lot like a F-22 raptor

Agreed man.

Look at this... Would you look at this.??

Both have wings...
Both have cockpits....
Both have tails and stabilisers...
Both have twin engines and air intakes...

Yeah mean both look alike ...

 

[CAN_TR]

Its looks hella lot like a F-22 raptor

Yeah.... not really.

 

[UzaySan]

TFX is 2 meters longer than F22

Its looks hella lot like a F-22 raptor

 

[Deino]

TFX is 2 meters longer than F22

And that alone shows IMO that it is not aimed to develop a realistic, feasible and affordable type but to make PR-stunts, nothing more. It is only on BIG and BIGGER but nothing more.

This even more in mind of the cooling down - or should I say soon close to non-existent - Turkish/US-relationship, which in the end will kill that promising project. No engine means no TFX and alone now without RR and soon without GE it is nothing but a fancy project. Too big and too ambitious.

 

[Khagan1923]

And that alone shows IMO that it is not aimed to develop a realistic, feasible and affordable type but to make PR-stunts, nothing more. It is only on BIG and BIGGER but nothing more.

This even more in mind of the cooling down - or should I say soon close to non-existent - Turkish/US-relationship, which in the end will kill that promising project. No engine means no TFX and alone now without RR and soon without GE it is nothing but a fancy project. Too big and too ambitious.

k

 

[Deino]

k

k means ???

 

[Mr.NiceGuy]

Will it be a success?

Well, I have doubts. Let's take a look at our own national main battle tank program. It has been 4 years since the project finalized but still we have been waiting for serial production. Still we have no engine to power it plus armor.

This project is more complex and hard to achieve comparing to MBT project. In my opinion, this is an another project to be a never ending story for our defense industry.

 

[CAN_TR]

k means ???

 

[UzaySan]

And that alone shows IMO that it is not aimed to develop a realistic, feasible and affordable type but to make PR-stunts, nothing more. It is only on BIG and BIGGER but nothing more.

This even more in mind of the cooling down - or should I say soon close to non-existent - Turkish/US-relationship, which in the end will kill that promising project. No engine means no TFX and alone now without RR and soon without GE it is nothing but a fancy project. Too big and too ambitious.

Did anyone ask your opinion?

 

[Deino]

Did anyone ask your opinion?

Or Yours or is this section restricted to fan boys and hey-ho-shouting supporters? AFAIK the meaning of a forum is to share opinions including one you don't like ... something you probably missed.

If you only want applause and agreement, You should probably look for a different forum.

 

[UzaySan]

that it is not aimed to develop a realistic, feasible and affordable

Ok just tell me what size it should be to be a "realistic, feasible and affordable" fighter

Or Yours or is this section restricted to fan boys and hey-ho-shouting supporters? AFAIK the meaning of a forum is to share opinions including one you don't like ... something you probably missed.

If you only want applause and agreement, You should probably look for a different forum.

 

[Deino]

Ok just tell me what size it should be to be a "realistic, feasible and affordable" fighter

Honestly, that's difficult to assume but IMO - admitted a layman's opinion - any attempt to develop a fighter with a performance goal equal or better than the F-22, Su-57 and J-20 aka the premier league without any true experience in completely indigenously developing a fighter on its own is - to rate it mildly - a difficult task, highly ambitious ... I would call it simply hubris!

I know now again these arguments will be brought forward that Turkey is not a third rate country, that it licence manufactures important parts for major aerospace products since decades ... but I can only refrain again: it is something completely different to manufacture on order or on your own especially since the major players keep there crown jewels - aka best secured secrets - on their own. That was a lesson, China had to learn the hard way during the Peace Pearl phase and India still learns - or maybe not - today. Just to pay and say we want full ToT is far from being able to develop and design alone.

Therefore - to come back to your question - my layman idea was always to develop a type similar or exactly in the class of the KF-X aka a type slightly below the F-35 to complement this maybe with more focus or air-to air.
IMO Turkey will some day deeply regret that they refused to take part in this project .... but time will tell

Anyway and it is meant in no way meant as arrogance or to bash Turkey, but simply my estimated guess on this issue.

 

[Oublious]

Honestly, that's difficult to assume but IMO - admitted a layman's opinion - any attempt to develop a fighter with a performance goal equal or better than the F-22, Su-57 and J-20 aka the premier league without any true experience in completely indigenously developing a fighter on its own is - to rate it mildly - a difficult task, highly ambitious ... I would call it simply hubris!

I know now again these arguments will be brought forward that Turkey is not a third rate country, that it licence manufactures important parts for major aerospace products since decades ... but I can only refrain again: it is something completely different to manufacture on order or on your own especially since the major players keep there crown jewels - aka best secured secrets - on their own. That was a lesson, China had to learn the hard way during the Peace Pearl phase and India still learns - or maybe not - today. Just to pay and say we want full ToT is far from being able to develop and design alone.

Therefore - to come back to your question - my layman idea was always to develop a type similar or exactly in the class of the KF-X aka a type slightly below the F-35 to complement this maybe with more focus or air-to air.
IMO Turkey will some day deeply regret that they refused to take part in this project .... but time will tell

Anyway and it is meant in no way meant as arrogance or to bash Turkey, but simply my estimated guess on this issue.

Well if we start like you we should never begin with something, every project have ther difficult story. KF-X didn´t fit TuAf demands, and why would partnering wiht Korea work? Korea trusted Americans for ToT but when Indonesia partnered they have refused to give ToT, so a country with not more experiences then Turkey will succeed? IF you ask me they will regret that they didn't partnered with us.

You have to begin somewhere, if we fail to deliver a Fighter. Still we would have gained experiences. It will be painful, ther is no other option.