New Dead Line: India must try to become developed country by 2030: Jaitley

[Dungeness]

1. There s no uniform retirement age, different org have dif norms and age may vary across pvt and public sector and even different positions.

2. Org job sector is covered by pensions and provident fund across pvt and public sector. As for unorg sector covering contract labor, household employees and agriculture sector - retirement is driven by savings.

Thanks for the reply.

Unorganized sectors account for 80-90% of Indian work force, so for large majority of Indians, there is no concept of retirement if they fail to save enough money for the rest of their life? No social safety network at all?

There is nothing wrong in having milestones. It gives Indians a motivation to work towards that goal. If Indians work hard, India can become a middle income country by 2030.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Pension_Scheme

http://articles.economictimes.india..._mantri-jan-dhan-yojana-pmjdy-pension-schemes

We may have different understandings for the term "milestone". For us, "milestone" means something achieved, not something we say we WILL achieve.

As for a mid-long goal for a country, there should be a comprehensive national development strategy that whole country will follow through, rather than individual politicians come up with random time lines here and there.

 

[randomradio]

Thanks for the reply.

Unorganized sectors account for 80-90% of Indian work force, so for large majority of Indians, there is no concept of retirement if they fail to save enough money for the rest of their life? No social safety network at all?

You are right. But there are two ways they deal with that. First way is to buy or build houses during their working years. Second way is to depend on children.

Most people feel these two ways provide more security than insurance.

Inflation in India is extremely high. So money schemes are not a good system in India. I'll give you an example with Chinese currency. Let's say only you earn in your family and your family's monthly expenditure is 8000 yuan per month, that's 96000 yuan a year. In China, with 3% inflation, if you want the same lifestyle after 30 years, when you have retired, you will need 233,000 yuan a year or 19000 yuan a month. Money schemes are fine for China. You only need 2.5x return and you are safe.

Now, let's assume the same value for an Indian. With 8% inflation, if you want the same lifestyle after 30 years, when you have retired, you will need 966,000 yuan a year or 80,500 yuan a month. You need returns worth 10 times. Even the best stable insurance plans only give a 4x return over 20 years.

Do you see the difference here? Money schemes are practically impossible for retirement in India. You will need to save large amounts of money to make that happen. Instead, you would rather choose to invest in real estate and the stock market. But not everybody knows enough about stock markets, so they invest in gold and real estate. Gold keeps capital safe and real estate provides for retirement through rent or sale.

By the time you are retired, your children will also be able to help. Now you may ask why children will want to support their parents. The answer is obvious, our culture is tuned to that, plus they get to inherit their parent's property, which will give them a more stable retirement plan when it's their turn.

 

[randomradio]

This is the first time a thread is opened about India becoming a developed nation. Indians typically talk about becoming a superpower.

For countries like India and China, superpower status is far easier to achieve than developed nation status.

Achieving US level defence budget and economic development for US level population is very easy. China will achieve that in 5 years, India will achieve that in 15.

By 2030, both China and India should easily achieve superpower levels.

 

[RISING SUN]

*2030 arrives*

New Dead Line: India must try to become developed country by 2060: Jaitley

See where we were when 2020 was set as target and where we are now. Same way you will have to compare where we are now to where we will be in 2030. Government is pushing to bring as many as possible population under financial inclusion schemes than in past. Target the best, work for it and try to achieve it, all it needs is a systematic plan. But why would it matter to you

 

[danger007]

It would be good if we improve educational standards, complete electrification, full fledge rail, road and shipping connectivity by 2030... leave developed country status aside..

It would be good if we improve educational standards, complete electrification, full fledge rail, road and shipping connectivity by 2030... leave developed country status aside..

 

[dani958]

it will take time it hard to give work for 1.3 bilion people

 

[Beast]

There is nothing wrong in having milestones. It gives Indians a motivation to work towards that goal. If Indians work hard, India can become a middle income country by 2030.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Pension_Scheme

http://articles.economictimes.india..._mantri-jan-dhan-yojana-pmjdy-pension-schemes

It's a big difference between setting achievable targets and setting unrealistic target that is nothing but boasting.

Indians is undeniable having the title of king of bragging

 

[Dungeness]

You are right. But there are two ways they deal with that. First way is to buy or build houses during their working years. Second way is to depend on children.

Most people feel these two ways provide more security than insurance.

Inflation in India is extremely high. So money schemes are not a good system in India. I'll give you an example with Chinese currency. Let's say only you earn in your family and your family's monthly expenditure is 8000 yuan per month, that's 96000 yuan a year. In China, with 3% inflation, if you want the same lifestyle after 30 years, when you have retired, you will need 233,000 yuan a year or 19000 yuan a month. Money schemes are fine for China. You only need 2.5x return and you are safe.

Now, let's assume the same value for an Indian. With 8% inflation, if you want the same lifestyle after 30 years, when you have retired, you will need 966,000 yuan a year or 80,500 yuan a month. You need returns worth 10 times. Even the best stable insurance plans only give a 4x return over 20 years.

Do you see the difference here? Money schemes are practically impossible for retirement in India. You will need to save large amounts of money to make that happen. Instead, you would rather choose to invest in real estate and the stock market. But not everybody knows enough about stock markets, so they invest in gold and real estate. Gold keeps capital safe and real estate provides for retirement through rent or sale.

By the time you are retired, your children will also be able to help. Now you may ask why children will want to support their parents. The answer is obvious, our culture is tuned to that, plus they get to inherit their parent's property, which will give them a more stable retirement plan when it's their turn.

China had the similar culture, and that is the way Chinese have always been for thousands of years. Modern societies are operating in different way, the health care and social welfare are increasingly becoming the responsibilities of the governments. You can't not find one developed country without a working retirement system.

Your example is fine if the economy of the country is static. my parents started out with combined income less than 100 yuan a month, now in their retirement, their combined monthly pension payment is about 9000 yuan, and adjusted yearly according to inflation. They are just as common as any city folks, those retired in their 50's and 60's, dancing or excising in every street corners in China.

Indians must know the shortcomings of their traditional way to support their senior citizens, that is why any organized formal company would have some kind of pension plans as you said.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Most important priority will be 100% quality education for all, low cost/free health care, better infrastructure and 100% population connected to energy and information grid.

 

[Dungeness]

For countries like India and China, superpower status is far easier to achieve than developed nation status.

Achieving US level defence budget and economic development for US level population is very easy. China will achieve that in 5 years, India will achieve that in 15.

By 2030, both China and India should easily achieve superpower levels.

You are wrong though about this one. China has her dreams, but Being a superpower was never one of them. China's long term goal has been to achieve the status of moderately developed country by 2050.

Most important priority will be 100% quality education for all, low cost/free health care, better infrastructure and 100% population connected to energy and information grid.

Totally agree! The inclusive development is way more important than the status of "developed country" or "superpower".

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

the whole world be developed before 2030. only problem i see is that they will be no living object remaining on the globe. wars, nukes, water, environmental pollution you name it

 

[faithfulguy]

For countries like India and China, superpower status is far easier to achieve than developed nation status.

Achieving US level defence budget and economic development for US level population is very easy. China will achieve that in 5 years, India will achieve that in 15.

By 2030, both China and India should easily achieve superpower levels.

For India, since it strive to be a superpower more than economic development, you could be right.But I don't see China becoming a superpower as that it's not its aspiration, unlike India. I can imaging India follow the route of superpower USSR by focus on military development and project enhancing national prestige in place of welfare of its people.

 

[-xXx-]

Questions to Indian members: If there is no universal pension plan for all Indians, how Indians live their retirement life? What is the legal retirement age for Indians?

• Till now all government employees, once retired, at an age of 60, were entitled to life long pension which is generally 50% of the last drawn salary.
• They also get a hefty retiral money in form of provident fund.
• Private employees are not entitled for any pension from the firm they work, but they are entitled to provident fund and pension fund which is a hefty amount paid once.
• Indians do have saving mentality. We do not spend much and keeps on saving our entire life for our retirement.
• Indian culture ensures that kids feel obliged to take care of their aging parents.
• That's how we roll.

 

[randomradio]

China had the similar culture, and that is the way Chinese have always been for thousands of years. Modern societies are operating in different way, the health care and social welfare are increasingly becoming the responsibilities of the governments. You can't not find one developed country without a working retirement system.

Your example is fine if the economy of the country is static. my parents started out with combined income less than 100 yuan a month, now in their retirement, their combined monthly pension payment is about 9000 yuan, and adjusted yearly according to inflation. They are just as common as any city folks, those retired in their 50's and 60's, dancing or excising in every street corners in China.

Indians must know the shortcomings of their traditional way to support their senior citizens, that is why any organized formal company would have some kind of pension plans as you said.

Not everybody gets plum govt jobs with safe retirement plans.

You are wrong though about this one. China has her dreams, but Being a superpower was never one of them. China's long term goal has been to achieve the status of moderately developed country by 2050.

Nobody believes that even for a second. Having a developed country life and superpower status are two completely different things.

But I don't see China becoming a superpower as that it's not its aspiration, unlike India.

Nobody believes that even for a second.

And no, India is going through the same changes China is. India's economy is not even close to that of the USSR.

To achieve superpower status, we only need to be as big and influential as the US. That's not difficult to achieve for China and India.

 

[RepublicOk]

Optimistic figure. I'd bet on 2070-80.