Indus Pakistan
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The more I read history the more I am impressed by the Indus River. It indeed has been one of histories fulcrums. A land which has played significant role in history of mankind. It has attracted the Achaemenid Persians, the Greeks, the Kushans all the way to the British in recent times. Even in the Neolithic era it was making history. I wish more Pakistan's took interest in this and took pride in the ititanic events that took place on this land that is called Pakistan today.
"The Fertile Crescent in the Near East is one of the independent origins of the Neolithic, the source from which farming and pottery-making spread across Europe from 9,000 to 6,000 years ago at an average rate of about 1 km/yr. There is also strong evidence for causal connections between the Near-Eastern Neolithic and that further east, up to the Indus Valley"
This suggests that Neolith cultures spread out west and east from the Fertile Crescent. In the east from Syria/Iraq and Iran it moved into present day Pakistan. Then from the highlands in Western Pakistan it dropped down into the Indus Valley maturing to the great Indus Valley cities like Harappa and Mohenjo Daro.
"the available 14C data with the archaeological evidence for early Neolithic sites in South Asia to analyze the spatio-temporal continuity of the Neolithic dispersal from the Near East through the Middle East and to the Indian subcontinent. We reveal an approximately linear dependence between the age and the geodesic distance from the Near East, suggesting a systematic (but not necessarily uniform) spread at an average speed of about 0.65 km/yr."
Citation: Gangal K, Sarson GR, Shukurov A (2014) The Near-Eastern Roots of the Neolithic in South Asia. PLoS ONE 9(5): e95714. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0095714
Editor: David Caramelli, University of Florence, Italy
Source > PLOS ONE: The Near-Eastern Roots of the Neolithic in South Asia
Western Pakistan is hilly plateau and in geographic terms continuation of the Iranian plateau. This area of Pakistan has lots of pre Indus Valley sites most famous of the Mehrgarh which as beenb dated to about 7,000BCE well before Harappa or Mohenjo Daro sites on the Indus floodplain. The hilly plateau is proximal to the west bank of the Indus.
Source > Neolithic Site of Mehrgarh in Pakistan
Map below. Pre Indus sites on the plateau to the east of Indus are shown in red stars (these are just selection) in modern day Iran, Afghanistan and Western Pakistan. From this high ground neolithic cultures spread down east to the Indus River as shown in the arrows. Harappa and Mohenjo Daro (in diamond red) went on to become the defining cities of the Indus Valley Civilization all centred around the River Indus - which gave the civilizations it's name.
The average Neolithic dispersal speed graph.
The interaction between sites in the high plateau of Iran, Afghanistan, Western Pakistan and the verdant Indus River Basin in Pakistan has been known for some time.
"This paper presents a systematic review of the archaeological evidence for cultural interaction between the Helmand and the Indus during the 3rd millennium BCE. A series of artefacts found at Shahr-i Sokhta and nearby sites (Iranian Seistan) that were presumably imported from Baluchistan and the Indus domain are discussed, together with finds from the French excavations at Mundigak (Kandahar, Afghanistan)"
Cortesi, Maurisio Tosi,Alessandra Lazzari et al - Cultural Relationships beyond Iranian Pleateu, Helmand Civilization, Balochistan and the Indus River.
Source > Cultural Relationships beyond the Iranian Plateau: The Helmand Civilization, Baluchistan and the Indus Valley in the 3rd Millennium BCE on JSTOR
Here below is my map of tge early civilization's all of which have interaction and trade. This is based on Posi et al Map. BMAC is Bractrian Margiana Archaelogical Complex. The remarkable thing is almost all are based around great rivers. Nile-Egypt, Tigris/Euphrates-Mesoptotamia, Amu Darya-BMAC, Heland River-Helmand Complex, Indus River- Harappa/IVC.
Source > https://www.google.co.uk/search?neww....0.yj1EopI-bvI
The above map is based on Tosi et al 1979. The boundaries are approximate for obvious reasons.
Copyright: © 2014 Gangal et al. This is an open-access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
There is the possibility that this thread is going to attract the Saraswati legend legionaires - let's stick to science and leave religion, myth, mumbo jumbo at the door please. I have used scientific papers or academic sources from reputable institutions some of which have even decalred their funding making them as objective as you can get.
With regards to the Saraswato myth I will however include the source below prepared by group of scientists specialists in fluvial dynamics which if any of you did geography (which I did and along with history love them) will know is the speciality that deals with science of rivers.
Liviu Giosan, Mark G. Mackli, Dorian Q. Fuller, Stefan Constantinescu, Julie A. Durcan, Thomas Stevens, Geoff A. T. Duller, Ali R. Tabrez, Kavita Gangal, Ronojoy Adhika, Anwar Aliza, Florin Filip, Sam VanLaningham and
James P. M. Syvitsk.
As can be seen below this team was multi-national, from India, Pakistan, USA, UK, Romania, Italy from many differant universities and institutes. You can read the full article yourself but the bottom line is there was no major river as is made out by the Saraswati myth peddlers. I only include this to cull any more discussion on this favourite cul de sac. Any more you are welcome to open another thread.
Fluvial landscapes of the Harappan civilization - Liviu Giosan, Mark G. Mackli, Dorian Q. Fuller, Stefan Constantinescu, Julie A. Durcan, Thomas Stevens, Geoff A. T. Duller, Ali R. Tabrez, Kavita Gangal, Ronojoy Adhika, Anwar Aliza, Florin Filip, Sam VanLaningham and
James P. M. Syvitsk.
Source > http://www.pnas.org/content/109/26/E1688.full.pdf
Ps. Note everything is cited and from third party credible Western sources as we all know South Asian sources tend to be highly partial.
"The Fertile Crescent in the Near East is one of the independent origins of the Neolithic, the source from which farming and pottery-making spread across Europe from 9,000 to 6,000 years ago at an average rate of about 1 km/yr. There is also strong evidence for causal connections between the Near-Eastern Neolithic and that further east, up to the Indus Valley"
This suggests that Neolith cultures spread out west and east from the Fertile Crescent. In the east from Syria/Iraq and Iran it moved into present day Pakistan. Then from the highlands in Western Pakistan it dropped down into the Indus Valley maturing to the great Indus Valley cities like Harappa and Mohenjo Daro.
"the available 14C data with the archaeological evidence for early Neolithic sites in South Asia to analyze the spatio-temporal continuity of the Neolithic dispersal from the Near East through the Middle East and to the Indian subcontinent. We reveal an approximately linear dependence between the age and the geodesic distance from the Near East, suggesting a systematic (but not necessarily uniform) spread at an average speed of about 0.65 km/yr."
Citation: Gangal K, Sarson GR, Shukurov A (2014) The Near-Eastern Roots of the Neolithic in South Asia. PLoS ONE 9(5): e95714. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0095714
Editor: David Caramelli, University of Florence, Italy
Source > PLOS ONE: The Near-Eastern Roots of the Neolithic in South Asia
Western Pakistan is hilly plateau and in geographic terms continuation of the Iranian plateau. This area of Pakistan has lots of pre Indus Valley sites most famous of the Mehrgarh which as beenb dated to about 7,000BCE well before Harappa or Mohenjo Daro sites on the Indus floodplain. The hilly plateau is proximal to the west bank of the Indus.
Source > Neolithic Site of Mehrgarh in Pakistan
Map below. Pre Indus sites on the plateau to the east of Indus are shown in red stars (these are just selection) in modern day Iran, Afghanistan and Western Pakistan. From this high ground neolithic cultures spread down east to the Indus River as shown in the arrows. Harappa and Mohenjo Daro (in diamond red) went on to become the defining cities of the Indus Valley Civilization all centred around the River Indus - which gave the civilizations it's name.
The average Neolithic dispersal speed graph.
The interaction between sites in the high plateau of Iran, Afghanistan, Western Pakistan and the verdant Indus River Basin in Pakistan has been known for some time.
"This paper presents a systematic review of the archaeological evidence for cultural interaction between the Helmand and the Indus during the 3rd millennium BCE. A series of artefacts found at Shahr-i Sokhta and nearby sites (Iranian Seistan) that were presumably imported from Baluchistan and the Indus domain are discussed, together with finds from the French excavations at Mundigak (Kandahar, Afghanistan)"
Cortesi, Maurisio Tosi,Alessandra Lazzari et al - Cultural Relationships beyond Iranian Pleateu, Helmand Civilization, Balochistan and the Indus River.
Source > Cultural Relationships beyond the Iranian Plateau: The Helmand Civilization, Baluchistan and the Indus Valley in the 3rd Millennium BCE on JSTOR
Here below is my map of tge early civilization's all of which have interaction and trade. This is based on Posi et al Map. BMAC is Bractrian Margiana Archaelogical Complex. The remarkable thing is almost all are based around great rivers. Nile-Egypt, Tigris/Euphrates-Mesoptotamia, Amu Darya-BMAC, Heland River-Helmand Complex, Indus River- Harappa/IVC.
Source > https://www.google.co.uk/search?neww....0.yj1EopI-bvI
The above map is based on Tosi et al 1979. The boundaries are approximate for obvious reasons.
Copyright: © 2014 Gangal et al. This is an open-access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
There is the possibility that this thread is going to attract the Saraswati legend legionaires - let's stick to science and leave religion, myth, mumbo jumbo at the door please. I have used scientific papers or academic sources from reputable institutions some of which have even decalred their funding making them as objective as you can get.
With regards to the Saraswato myth I will however include the source below prepared by group of scientists specialists in fluvial dynamics which if any of you did geography (which I did and along with history love them) will know is the speciality that deals with science of rivers.
Liviu Giosan, Mark G. Mackli, Dorian Q. Fuller, Stefan Constantinescu, Julie A. Durcan, Thomas Stevens, Geoff A. T. Duller, Ali R. Tabrez, Kavita Gangal, Ronojoy Adhika, Anwar Aliza, Florin Filip, Sam VanLaningham and
James P. M. Syvitsk.
As can be seen below this team was multi-national, from India, Pakistan, USA, UK, Romania, Italy from many differant universities and institutes. You can read the full article yourself but the bottom line is there was no major river as is made out by the Saraswati myth peddlers. I only include this to cull any more discussion on this favourite cul de sac. Any more you are welcome to open another thread.
Fluvial landscapes of the Harappan civilization - Liviu Giosan, Mark G. Mackli, Dorian Q. Fuller, Stefan Constantinescu, Julie A. Durcan, Thomas Stevens, Geoff A. T. Duller, Ali R. Tabrez, Kavita Gangal, Ronojoy Adhika, Anwar Aliza, Florin Filip, Sam VanLaningham and
James P. M. Syvitsk.
Source > http://www.pnas.org/content/109/26/E1688.full.pdf
Ps. Note everything is cited and from third party credible Western sources as we all know South Asian sources tend to be highly partial.
Our archaeologists had proven that Vincha people were in search of Obsidian, to be able to cut fabric. 
