Nawaz Sharif

[Lahori paa jee]

A true Pakistani





And this is how we treat our leaders

 

[Lahori paa jee]

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Is this guy going to be around for the next couple of hundred years to run Pakistan? So where is the loyalty to institutions, to ideologies, to visions, to policies? Those are the only things that allow for continuity in the development and growth of a nation - not one time leaders. Or is the PML -N hoping to start a Sharif dynasty, along with the PPP's Bhutto dynasty.

Political parties that cannot function in the absence of one individual are useless. Is your loyalty to Pakistan or the Sharif khandan? If it was to Pakistan then the PPP and PML leadership should have ditched Nawaz and BB to get into talks with Mushy for a return of the Army to the Barracks and a strengthening of state institutions. The course you took indicates that your loyalty is to individuals, not the nation.

 

[Keysersoze]

I think this shows the problems with Pakistani politics.... The man was completely useless and yet we still have a few people (with their cults of personality) raving about them. What the hell have these vultures ever done for the country? I mean seriously I want a list of their ACTUAL achievements because right now it looks like not a hell of a lot.

I guess some people are still stuck in their feudal mentality

 

[bhangra12345]

Replacing Sharif with Musharraf in your comments

Is musharraf going to be around for the next couple of hundred years to run Pakistan?So where is the loyalty to institutions, to ideologies, to visions, to policies? Those are the only things that allow for continuity in the development and growth of a nation - not one time leaders. Or is the army hoping to start a musharaff dynasty,

Countries that cannot function in the absence of one individual are useless. Is your loyalty to Pakistan or the Musharaff khandan? If it was to Pakistan then the army generals should have ditched Musharaff to get into talks with political parites for a return of the Army to the Barracks and a strengthening of state institutions. The course you took indicates that your loyalty is to individuals, not the nation.

my changes in bold.

But isnt it what all the political parties are screaming about?

 

[bhangra12345]

I think this shows the problems with Pakistani politics.... The man was completely useless and yet we still have a few people (with their cults of personality) raving about them. What the hell have these vultures ever done for the country? I mean seriously I want a list of their ACTUAL achievements because right now it looks like not a hell of a lot.

I guess some people are still stuck in their feudal mentality

The most serious actual achievement that they ever did was they have (you can see the thread starter) public support which they have acquired it in a democratic way.

not like musharraf who being a subordinate to the democratically elected PM of Pakistan, held a gun to his superior's head, threw the superior away and made himself the head of Pakistan.

 

[Keysersoze]

Bhangra I would not Musharaff around for the long haul.....However I would not want any of the old parasites back........

 

[Keysersoze]

The most serious actual achievement that they ever did was they have (you can see the thread starter) public support which they have acquired it in a democratic way.

Cronyism, nepotism and the use of feudal systems is not what I would call democratic means.

Other than this I want to know what they have done? Because frankly the above is not a acaheivement.

 

[bhangra12345]

Bhangra I would not Musharaff around for the long haul.....However I would not want any of the old parasites back........

The old guard(parasites) will go only if you allow new guards to develop. For the new guards to develop there will have to be continuous elections. When one stifles the elections, from where will the new crop come from?

When elections are not coming, which is the only guard left? the old guard, so naturally they are the only ones who can atleast attempt to strike back.

When was any of these old guards allowed to functioned normally? Did any of them rule for more than 3 years even when they had thunderous majorities.

All the leader worship is a part and parcel of any democratic development. The army in Pakistan is nipping the democracy in its bud. Every democracy will make mistakes and then grow up.

Remember 'Democracy is not perfect, infact it is bad, the only difference is that other forms of govt are worse.'

Even a mature democracy is not perfect and you expect an infant democracy to be so?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Replacing Sharif with Musharraf in your comments

my changes in bold.

But isnt it what all the political parties are screaming about?

Not at all. The screaming and ranting of the political parties has been solely about the "return of their true leaders". Musharraf asked the PPP after the coup if they would be willing to work with him to reform Pakistan, provided they ditch Bhutto - they refused.

Is this not the height of betrayal and lack of interest in changing the fortunes of 160 million Pakistanis? They refused to play their role in their nations development for the sake of individuals?

When Pakistanis support Musharraf, they do it to support his social policies of moderation and his economic policies, not the man himself. I have no problem with the PPP and PML-N, provided their leadership actually show some ambition and ideas, rather than continue with the sycophantic attachments to BB and NS.

The fact is that none of them really have any ideas - they are intellectually bankrupt and have hitched their fortunes to the "personality cult" of two individuals.

Why don't they get involved in legislating to reform institutions, get involved in advancing ideas and initiating discourse over those ideas in the parliament, in the media, in society. No, instead we have dharnas and walkouts over the "uniform".

 

[bhangra12345]

Cronyism, nepotism and the use of feudal systems is not what I would call democratic means.

Other than this I want to know what they have done? Because frankly the above is not a acaheivement.

You expect the politicians who never even had a decent run of governance to destroy a feudal system which has been propped up by the Pakistan army's rule of more than 35-40 years?

Cronyism, nepotism - arent these charges even on the army rule? whom are you kidding? The steel mill saga is too fresh to even refresh. How the lands are being allocated to the officers and how they are usurping the civilian adminstrative posts- I know that you know these issues pretty well to even discuss.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You expect the politicians who never even had a decent run of governance to destroy a feudal system which has been propped up by the Pakistan army's rule of more than 35-40 years?

The politicians for the most part are part of the Feudal system in Pakistan.

The problem is not with politicians, but specifically with two who have had a chance at running things and should bow out to allow new leadership to emerge. In that context, if NS and BB were to at least accept the 2 term condition, progress towards a return of the army could be possible.

I would support a permanent retirement of all three. Then we can get on.

 

[bhangra12345]

Not at all. The screaming and ranting of the political parties has been solely about the "return of their true leaders". Musharraf asked the PPP after the coup if they would be willing to work with him to reform Pakistan, provided they ditch Bhutto - they refused.

Why should they ditch all the ideologies they stood for because some govt officer has asked them to? What was his standing at the time apart from his credit of throwing a democratically elected govt. I didnt know this before, but if it is true, I salute these people for not bowing to army diktats.

Is this not the height of betrayal and lack of interest in changing the fortunes of 160 million Pakistanis? They refused to play their role in their nations development for the sake of individuals?

when did the 160 million pakistanis come into picture? The asking of PPP was about reinforcing an INDIVIDUAL's rule, they were willing to sacrifice the ministerial berths for the sake of the country against an individual.

When Pakistanis support Musharraf, they do it to support his social policies of moderation and his economic policies, not the man himself. I have no problem with the PPP and PML-N, provided their leadership actually show some ambition and ideas, rather than continue with the sycophantic attachments to BB and NS.

If Pakistanis support Musharraf, let him play by the rules and hold proper free and fair elections. Change rules every other day for propogating his own rule and sycophantic himself, do not show that he has pakistanis support.

The fact is that none of them really have any ideas - they are intellectually bankrupt and have hitched their fortunes to the "personality cult" of two individuals.

Just add the army and the "personality cult" of one individual- Musharraf

Why don't they get involved in legislating to reform institutions, get involved in advancing ideas and initiating discourse over those ideas in the parliament, in the media, in society. No, instead we have dharnas and walkouts over the "uniform".

Which parliament are you talking about? The parliament in which rules are made in army house? Where the parliament doesnt function because of lack of quorum, where the governing class realizes that there anyway is no use of coming to parliament as it has zero effect anyway. Is this the parliament you are talking about?

When there is no "parliament" to protest, where else can they protest except for dharnas and walkout?

 

[bhangra12345]

The politicians for the most part are part of the Feudal system in Pakistan.

The problem is not with politicians, but specifically with two who have had a chance at running things and should bow out to allow new leadership to emerge. In that context, if NS and BB were to at least accept the 2 term condition, progress towards a return of the army could be possible.

A rule which was arbitrarily given out by the army because that was a rule so that they cannot come into picture? If they would not have satisfied this rule, he would have concocted something else.

If the army propped up the feudal system through out its history, from where else will the leaders come?

I would support a permanent retirement of all three. Then we can get on.

musharraf's army has an age of retiring not politics and that is because of a very very good reason.

 

[Awesome]

lol @ true Pakistani. He just raped and plundered Pakistani the Pakistani treasury. Wait min... You are right that's a 'true' Pakistani (leader).