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Navy set to issue tender for new submarines

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The Indian Navy is set to "very soon" issue a RfP (request for proposal or tender) for a new line of six submarines with AIP (air independent propulsion) capability.

The requirement has been pending for quite a few years but the proposal for the new line, designated Project 75-I, has now being given firm clearance by the government, according to Indian Navy chief, Admiral DK Joshi.

Asked how soon is "very soon," the naval chief told India Strategic defence magazine (..:: India Strategic ::.. Home Page: The authoritative monthly on Defence and Strategic Affairs.) that the defence acquisition committee (DAC) had already cleared a note on acceptance of necessity (AON), the navy had finalized the RfP and it was in its last stage of formalities for clearance in the defence ministry.

As per procedures, depending on the money involved, AON has to be cleared by a competent authority. If the requirement involves more than Rs 1,000 crores ($200 million ), then it is by the DAC, headed by the defence minister. The approval was accorded just before the Navy Day on December 4, 2012.

AIP increases the mission life of a submarine by around three times, depending upon the task and parameters required. The capability enables a submarine to generate air onboard without the need to surface for breathing to recharge its batteries.

At present, none of the Indian submarines have this capability, and some of them can only be under water for only three to five days. The existing fleet of 14 diesel-electric submarines is rather weak despite the periodic upgrades, although some newer EW (electronic warfare) systems have been installed.

Submarines are about staying underwater as long as possible, and that is why nuclear power is used to keep them submerged for around three months, or to the limits of human endurance.

The new Project 75-I submarines should be huge in value, estimated at around $10 billion-plus, depending upon the offsets and transfer of technology (ToT).

At present, six new Scorpenes under Project 75 are being built for more than 5% billion (Rs 23,562 crore) by the state-run Mazagon Dock Ltd. (MDL) under licence from the French DCNS company.

MDL is also hoping to get the new Project 75-I line but it has substantial work in hand for years — 14 ships in addition to the six Scorpenes. The experience gained in building the Scorpenes though should be extremely useful and must not get wasted.

AIP is also being considered for the last two of the existing line of Scorpenes by installing plugs — about eight meters in length and the same diameter as that of the submarine. Admiral Joshi said that the (Defence Research and Development Organisation) DRDO was working on building these plugs, but that if this entailed delay, "we will not wait".

The Scorpene project is already late by three years, with the first submarine scheduled to be out in June 2015 — instead of 2012 — and the last in September 2018.

DCNS has offered to build the plugs and some negotiations have taken place with it. Nonetheless, DRDO's Naval Materials Research Laboratory (NMRL) at Ambernath in Maharashtra is working on the project to bring in some indigenous capability and content.

About the Project 75-I, defence ministry sources said that its Department of Defence Production was working on fine-tuning some features like Who-Will-Do-What among the Indian shipyards and the suppliers in terms of sub-systems and weapons. Details on offsets and ToT, which have a sizeable bearing on the costs, are also being given the last touches.

Notably, the defence offsets policy mandates a minimum investment of 30 per cent to be put back in a related defence industrial venture in India, but in the biggest defence contract that is now being negotiated for the French Rafale multi role combat aircraft (MRCA), this figure is 50 per cent.

As per indications, the RfP for the submarines should be out even in January 2013, or latest by March before the financial year 2012-13 ends.

The Indian Navy's current fleet of conventional diesel-electric submarines is quite old.

There are four HDW Shishumar class submarines acquired from Germany and 10 Kilo Sindhughosh class from Russia, both from 1986 onwards. The service life of a submarine is estimated at around 20 years, but because of political indecision after the allegations over the purchase of Bofors guns from Sweden, the modernization process of the Navy — along with that of the Army and Indian Air Force — suffered.

In 1998, the then naval chief, Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat, projected a requirement of a 24-submarine fleet in the navy's long-term vision for 30 years. In 1999, the Cabinet committee on security (CCS) — the apex body headed by the prime minister — approved the plan for their indigenous construction in two lines.

The Scorpenes are being built in India to gain experience and indigenous support capability. India had gained some earlier with the induction of HDW boats but as there was no follow-on programme, that experience was lost and all those involved in the project have retired.

The only direct submarine acquisition of the Indian Navy after the HDW and Kilo submarines is that of the single nuclear power attack submarine (SSN) INS Chakra from Russia in 2012. There are also some technical issues with it, and during his recent to New Delhi, Russian President Vladimir Putin promised to have them sorted out ASAP.

An SSN is a nuclear propelled but not nuclear armed submarine. The conventionally-powered diesel electric submarines are knows as the SSK class.

Navy set to issue tender for new submarines - The Times of India
 
don't give it to French, they got their hands full with work and money too..bring in Germany..heard they make good submarines.
 
It's the French wine again. Scorpene with AIP and submarine launched MICA missile. Just bring it on!
 
It's the French wine again. Scorpene with AIP and submarine launched MICA missile. Just bring it on!

Naval MICA would be an interesting addition, but way more important will be naval Scalp cruise missiles for the land attack requirement.
 
with out delay..
lesson from scorpion deal.

India has to take its share of blame for the delays. With all the upgrades to Indian shipyards of late not to mention the upgrades directly because of the first Scorpene deal the next lot of SSKs should not have as much trouble. IIRC this procurement calls for first 2 to be built in foreign shipyards whilst domestic construction starts in parallel or am I high and getting this all wrong?
 
then what about s80,the most advanced at present.
 
the best option as for me will be awarding the contract to French for API Scorpions.

this will help in the fastest induction as we are already making these subs.
also for early induction we can split the order as 2 acn de delivered from French shipyard & we will make 4 of them.
 
India has to take its share of blame for the delays. With all the upgrades to Indian shipyards of late not to mention the upgrades directly because of the first Scorpene deal the next lot of SSKs should not have as much trouble. IIRC this procurement calls for first 2 to be built in foreign shipyards whilst domestic construction starts in parallel or am I high and getting this all wrong?

:lol:

No, u r right on the mark. India/MDL last made a submarine in the year 1990 & by the time scorpene construction began in the year 2005-06 (nearly 16 years), whatever advantage (TOT, human resource, infrastructure, training, etc.) in building German HDW subs were completely lost, entire generation got changed & our submarine strength was in abysmal state. The delay in scorpenes construction can be attributed to the infrastructure changes in MDL, tech absorption, training of manpower, etc. But the good thing is that we have now passed the difficult phase & the P-75I will be a smooth affair. IN was delaying the issuing of the tender for the same b'coz this will be the last class of subs which will be procured from a foreign country, after that every successive sub class will be Indian. So, IN wanted to make most of the TOT clause in the deal.

As per the plans of P-75I, 2 of the 6 subs will be directly procured off the shelf from foreign shipyard, 3 will be made in MDL & 1 in HSL. I think the since the tenders are scheduled to be issued by the end of this fiscal, it will take anywhere b/w 18-24 months for construction to begin at the foreign shipyard depending upon the requirements of the IN. Within 12 months after that, Indian shipyards should begin the construction, since there will be requirement of infrastructural changes, training etc. But we can say that within 3-4 years, we can see as much as 3 sub construction going on in PARALLEL. By 2020, i think IN will be able to induct 3-4 of these subs & all 6 by 2022-23.

IMO, selection of DCNS/bigger scorpenes will be the best choice for this tender, since they have a proven AIP, land attack capability, Anti-aircraft missiles & above all MDL has already the tech. & experience to build the scorpenes & now they just have to go a little further.AFAIK, The only negative associated with bigger scorpenes is no VLS for launch of Brahmos.
 
:lol:

No, u r right on the mark. India/MDL last made a submarine in the year 1990 & by the time scorpene construction began in the year 2005-06 (nearly 16 years), whatever advantage (TOT, human resource, infrastructure, training, etc.) in building German HDW subs were completely lost, entire generation got changed & our submarine strength was in abysmal state. The delay in scorpenes construction can be attributed to the infrastructure changes in MDL, tech absorption, training of manpower, etc. But the good thing is that we have now passed the difficult phase & the P-75I will be a smooth affair. IN was delaying the issuing of the tender for the same b'coz this will be the last class of subs which will be procured from a foreign country, after that every successive sub class will be Indian. So, IN wanted to make most of the TOT clause in the deal.

I highly doubt that this would be the last foreign made sub for Indian navy. Getting some foreign technology is not the same as absorbing the technology and be able to improve upon it. If its that easy, than India can build its sub from TOT of the original scorpenes. By the time the last of the P75I sub is build, there would be newer technology. India would need to purchase another generation of subs and more TOT.

So this is why TOT is useless as India is not capable of absorbing the technology and build something better upon it. It should spend more money acquiring the TOT on purchasing more hardware. Instead of flushing it down the drain.
 
I highly doubt that this would be the last foreign made sub for Indian navy. Getting some foreign technology is not the same as absorbing the technology and be able to improve upon it. If its that easy, than India can build its sub from TOT of the original scorpenes. By the time the last of the P75I sub is build, there would be newer technology. India would need to purchase another generation of subs and more TOT.

So this is why TOT is useless as India is not capable of absorbing the technology and build something better upon it. It should spend more money acquiring the TOT on purchasing more hardware. Instead of flushing it down the drain.

I know there is no SENSE trying to convince u but i will give just 1 try.

This was always the plan, from as early as 1999:

Broadsword: N-subs: India debates, China struggles

The 30-Year plan envisioned building 24 conventional submarines in India. Six were to be built from western technology and six with Russian collaboration; then Indian designers, having absorbed the best of both worlds, would build 12 submarines indigenously. Project 75, to build six Scorpene submarines (the “western” six), was contracted in 2005. In this series of articles, Business Standard has reported that the MoD believes it is still 4-6 years away from Project 75I, i.e. beginning work on the second six submarines

& if u have forgotten than let me remind u that we now build our own Destroyers, Frigates, corvettes, OPV & even ACs. We have to take tech from other nations for subs simply b'coz we were the late starters in the field & have to cover the gap in next few years. In fact Arihant was made in India with some outside help, which is a good start.
 

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