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Navy gets only 10pc of defence budget

KARACHI: Only 10 per cent of the defence budget goes to the navy, making even the day-to-day operations, maintenance and repairs a challenge, while India builds up on its fleet, acquiring warships, aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines, it emerged during a media briefing about the maritime exercise Seaspark 2015.

The exercise began in north Arabian Sea on Tuesday after a gap of three years.

“India has a strong sea strength,” Deputy Chief of Naval Staff (Plans) Commodore Raja Rab Nawaz said while sharing information about the number of warships, etc, acquired by both countries and the navy’s role in the scenario, which may be described as strategically defensive, although tactically offensive.

Later, while answering media’s queries, Deputy Chief of Naval Staff (Operations) Rear Admiral Kaleem Shaukat said: “Our strength as compared to India’s naval strength may be different when compared with various aspects. The ratios come out as something like one-third, one-sixth or one-tenth. The conventional gaps show how behind we are in building our sea strength while India has realised the sea’s importance.

“But, in order to shorten these gaps, the Pakistan Navy, like the Pakistan Army and Pakistan Air Force, has a development plan according to our resources. We also ask the government for extra funding as per our requirements, which does come through. For instance, we approach them case to case for things such as fleet tankers, missile boats and submarines.”

He said India planned to be a big global power through the sea which was not on Pakistan’s agenda at the moment because of monetary reasons as well as the prevalent mindset here.

“Getting aircraft carriers is not a part of our development plan as besides being an asset it can also be a target. Our state cannot afford to use all its navy to protect our aircraft carriers,” he said.

Rear Admiral Shaukat admitted that India’s aircraft carriers, although primarily there to project power, posed a threat. “We’ll see how we can neutralise this threat,” he said, adding that the navy was protecting the disputed Sir Creek area and other sensitive points. “Our marines are deployed in our creek areas.”

When asked if spies or terrorists from across the border might infiltrate into Pakistan while impersonating as fishermen who are picked up by the dozen all the time, he said fishermen were handled by the Pakistan Maritime Security Agency (PMSA).

Rear Admiral Shaukat said that besides 990km of coastal areas, Pakistan had land borders and an agriculture and continental mindset instead of looking to the sea for food. “We have blue water capability but our operations are sustained. We can safeguard our trade. But our merchant fleet has also become smaller. Our fish catch is worth billions of dollars but we are not exporting much. The mindset needs to be changed,” he said.

The navy’s contribution in the fields of education, health and job opportunities for the coastal communities, such as building hospitals in Ormara and Turbat in Balochistan, holding free medical camps and recruiting from the community in Gwadar, were also mentioned. The force carried out extensive search, rescue and relief operations during international and national disasters and contingencies, while playing an important role in rehabilitation, officials said.

Objective of exercise

The deputy chief of naval staff said that besides providing impetus to the country’s resolve for maintaining peace, security and stability in the region, the objective of the exercise was to corroborate the navy’s operational plans, assess its war preparedness and enhance its interoperability with the air force and army.

All operational units of the navy, including ships, submarines, aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, special forces and marines, along with elements of the PMSA, PAF and army, are participating in the exercise to make the ports and territorial waters safe from all kinds of threats, including non-traditional challenges such as piracy and pollution.

“During the exercise, full spectrum of threats would be exercised ranging from conventional to asymmetric, cyber and information warfare domains. Besides enhancement of operational preparedness, the exercise will also focus on seaward defence of the coast and their response against emerging non-traditional threats emanating from sea,” the official said.

“Being located at the confluence of world’s major sea routes, Pakistan’s strategic location can be exploited to our advantage through the development of the maritime sector and a strong navy for its effective defence. Pakistan Navy’s operational and development plans are, therefore, focused to maintain a potent and well-balanced naval force to deter aggression at sea. Being an essential appendage to the foreign policy, we also strive to foster stronger navy-to-navy relations through regular exercises and ship visits with regional as well as extra-regional navies,” he added.

The exercise will conclude on Nov 12.

Navy gets only 10pc of defence budget - Pakistan - DAWN.COM
Good article author,actually navy need to add some commercial in its businesses, ministry of shipping and ports should buy some commercial ships in which navy invest a bit for tech like radar and sensors ,these ships get some modification at karachi shipyard where portable misile systems can add or remove,so in peace time these work as reserve ships who are generating funds for navy and at time of need quickly become missile attack destroyers.
 
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Off course, out in the Open Seas PN does not has the firepower nor the experience to match the might of the IN. One has to accept the facts as they are. I have always said that within its borders and close to its borders, Pakistan Armed Forces are a very effecting fighting force. Within its own territorial waters, PN has a very potent Area Denial Capability but out in the Open Seas PN does not has the Aerial, Surface and Sub Surface Assets required to challenge the IN.



No, that is not a fair game. You're indeed correct, Great Powers will not take sides and this is why they will continue trade and commerce as business as usual. A halt to trade with Pakistan will be akin to choosing sides and a snub to one of the oldest doctrines(Freedom of Navigation), the USN has effectively imposed this doctrine for the past century. You would be ill advised to think that the US will take sides with India just to snub one of its oldest doctrines. Boarding of any flagged vessel of these countries will be considered a hostile act by India, and i doubt it India has the will to do something like this. If the past is any indicator, i doubt it India will board a Chinese or American flagged Vessel.

how many American flagged vessels are there ? Hint they are usually registered in panama or liberia
China would think twice of sending something by sea especially if they can send it by land or sea
 
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Furthermore, India has air craft carrier since 1960s but never dare to get it out to fight Pakistan in any war,,, be it latest Kargil war,
INS Vikrant didn't strike your military facilities during the 1971 war??

India has put too much eggs in a single basket,,, one successful attack against one asset and half of the assets of India are gone,,

You'll never get near an indian CBG but say you did hit a carrier, does that mean all of the IN's destroyers, frigates and submarines just disappear? "half of the assets are gone"- what nonsense.
 
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INS Vikrant didn't strike your military facilities during the 1971 war??
My friend INS Vikrant attacked on east Pakistan (i.e. Bangladesh) Chittagong where there was no presence of navy and just one squadron of air force bombers... hence effective against weak opposition not capable to attack... West Pakistan (now Pakistan) is a different story there is strong air arm of Pakistan as well as strong fleet (strong with reference to defense of small coastal borders of Pakistan. The successful operations in 1971 war against west Pakistan was through fast attack missile boats ,,, shoot and scoot strategy,, which is noe also adopted by Pakistan..



You'll never get near an indian CBG but say you did hit a carrier, does that mean all of the IN's destroyers, frigates and submarines just disappear? "half of the assets are gone"- what nonsense.

My friend its all about strategy and Objectives... Pakistan objective is to attack by shoot and scoot for which it is developing under water fleet second and most important objective is to defend its sea lanes... now Indian objective is to block Pakistan's sea lane,, for achieving the purpose Indian Fleet has to come close to Pakistan border be it carrier or any other assets,,, making them more vulnerable,,, they need to make a one dense attack from air and below surface to attack CBG,,, once the air carrier carrier destroyed it will not only destroy the carrier but will destroy multiple squadrons present on the ship,,, hence a very harsh below the capabilities of India,,, whereas its objective to block Pakistan sea lanes will also be lost as frigrates destroyers are good to defend and even attack but will not be sufficient for blocking Pakistan sea lanes...

If wars could have been won just by larger assets then USA must have destroyed Russia in 1980's but it can't as they were not able to reach Russia and despite of having several air craft carrier they did not launch any operation against russia...

Thy only purpose of navy against partially strong opposition is to block sea lanes, to halt the supply lines of fuel and weapons,, however, for achieving the objective you have come close which means your assets will be in an unknown area away from other assets of Indian navy (because Indian navy can deploy 100% assets in blocking Pakistan's sea lanes,,, it has to defend its ports as well) against 100% assets of Pakistan navy.... Furthermore, in blocking Pakistan sea lanes awacs, anti submarine planes will not be very effective as getting them near Pakistani borders will put them at high risk...
 
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My friend INS Vikrant attacked on east Pakistan (i.e. Bangladesh) Chittagong where there was no presence of navy and just one squadron of air force bombers... hence effective against weak opposition not capable to attack... West Pakistan (now Pakistan) is a different story there is strong air arm of Pakistan as well as strong fleet (strong with reference to defense of small coastal borders of Pakistan. The successful operations in 1971 war against west Pakistan was through fast attack missile boats ,,, shoot and scoot strategy,, which is noe also adopted by Pakistan..





My friend its all about strategy and Objectives... Pakistan objective is to attack by shoot and scoot for which it is developing under water fleet second and most important objective is to defend its sea lanes... now Indian objective is to block Pakistan's sea lane,, for achieving the purpose Indian Fleet has to come close to Pakistan border be it carrier or any other assets,,, making them more vulnerable,,, they need to make a one dense attack from air and below surface to attack CBG,,, once the air carrier carrier destroyed it will not only destroy the carrier but will destroy multiple squadrons present on the ship,,, hence a very harsh below the capabilities of India,,, whereas its objective to block Pakistan sea lanes will also be lost as frigrates destroyers are good to defend and even attack but will not be sufficient for blocking Pakistan sea lanes...

If wars could have been won just by larger assets then USA must have destroyed Russia in 1980's but it can't as they were not able to reach Russia and despite of having several air craft carrier they did not launch any operation against russia...

Thy only purpose of navy against partially strong opposition is to block sea lanes, to halt the supply lines of fuel and weapons,, however, for achieving the objective you have come close which means your assets will be in an unknown area away from other assets of Indian navy (because Indian navy can deploy 100% assets in blocking Pakistan's sea lanes,,, it has to defend its ports as well) against 100% assets of Pakistan navy.... Furthermore, in blocking Pakistan sea lanes awacs, anti submarine planes will not be very effective as getting them near Pakistani borders will put them at high risk...

Indian aircraft carrier can enforce a partial naval blockade from 1000 km away, Any Pakistani warship 200 km away from the Pakistani coastline will be a sitting duck to Indian air force strikes.

shoot and scot works well against fixed targets. I am not sure how you plan to track indian warships 500-1000 km away
 
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Indian aircraft carrier can enforce a partial naval blockade from 1000 km away, Any Pakistani warship 200 km away from the Pakistani coastline will be a sitting duck to Indian air force strikes.

shoot and scot works well against fixed targets. I am not sure how you plan to track indian warships 500-1000 km away
And why do you think that 1000 km away carrier will be more effective than 200 km away airbase of Pakistan with support of 100 km away AWACs, frigrates, 200 km aways land based radar and anti air wepons?

In order to make aircraft carrier on offensive weapon it has to come near striking range of Pakistan,, Aircraft carrier is nothing but moving air base and general rule says as near the target is as easy is the attack,,, infact why to use aircraft carrier when indian land based air craft are at much shorter distance and will take even less time to attack and sea target,,,, only potential offensive object of indian a/c carrier is to block supply lines from middle east of fuel and probable military support from middle eastern country which cannot be done by a/c while staying at a safe distance it has to take the risk and thats why Pakistan is equipping its air fleet with anti carrier wepons...

Havn't you notice the most exceptional arsenal of JF17 is CM400 AKG ... a supersonic carrier killer missile .... it is similar to brahmos and will be very difficult to intercept,,, just consider one successful strike will cost indian navy two advance fighter squadrons without even fighting and the most expensive assets of Indian Navy,,, whereas Pakistan submarines could also be lethal against air craft carrier against which there are no measure defenses available to a/c carrier except of P8 (which will not available near Pakistan border ... plus bigger the asset easier to target... easily available on radars,,, awacs would be able to see it 600KM away,,,

Furthermore, shoot and scoot is not the strategy which can be used for naval blockade,,, for naval blockade you have to stay within certain range to attack,,, my bro basic strategy is defense near your borders is easy as you have support of multiple assets no the terrain and can have hidden assets whereas attack is altogether a different story,,, gone are the days of 1965 and 1971 when there were very few radars with very few capabilities,,, now both of us has awacs and we always know other's activities,,, so even for Pakistan attack like dawarka is almost impossible,,,, you have to consider the realities of today's war,,, it has more to do with air power (as objective of both countries is to destroy other and not to capture other), missiles and area denial capabilities ...
 
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And why do you think that 1000 km away carrier will be more effective than 200 km away airbase of Pakistan with support of 100 km away AWACs, frigrates, 200 km aways land based radar and anti air wepons?

In order to make aircraft carrier on offensive weapon it has to come near striking range of Pakistan,, Aircraft carrier is nothing but moving air base and general rule says as near the target is as easy is the attack,,, infact why to use aircraft carrier when indian land based air craft are at much shorter distance and will take even less time to attack and sea target,,,, only potential offensive object of indian a/c carrier is to block supply lines from middle east of fuel and probable military support from middle eastern country which cannot be done by a/c while staying at a safe distance it has to take the risk and thats why Pakistan is equipping its air fleet with anti carrier wepons...

Havn't you notice the most exceptional arsenal of JF17 is CM400 AKG ... a supersonic carrier killer missile .... it is similar to brahmos and will be very difficult to intercept,,, just consider one successful strike will cost indian navy two advance fighter squadrons without even fighting and the most expensive assets of Indian Navy,,, whereas Pakistan submarines could also be lethal against air craft carrier against which there are no measure defenses available to a/c carrier except of P8 (which will not available near Pakistan border ... plus bigger the asset easier to target... easily available on radars,,, awacs would be able to see it 600KM away,,,

Furthermore, shoot and scoot is not the strategy which can be used for naval blockade,,, for naval blockade you have to stay within certain range to attack,,, my bro basic strategy is defense near your borders is easy as you have support of multiple assets no the terrain and can have hidden assets whereas attack is altogether a different story,,, gone are the days of 1965 and 1971 when there were very few radars with very few capabilities,,, now both of us has awacs and we always know other's activities,,, so even for Pakistan attack like dawarka is almost impossible,,,, you have to consider the realities of today's war,,, it has more to do with air power (as objective of both countries is to destroy other and not to capture other), missiles and area denial capabilities ...

positioning the aircraft carrier 1000 km off Pakistani coast makes it hard for the Pakistani military to locate & destroy it.

It is obviously less effective than if it is 200 km away. But it is vulnerable to shore based aircraft when it is 200 km away.

the objective of the aircraft carrier is to support ships that will intercept maritime trade traffic headed for pakistan and provide a platform for hunting down pakistani submarines. you do not need an aircraft carrier to hit pakistani navy frigates. Shored based Su-30 MKIs with their brahmos missiles can do it.
 
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The reason the BIG NATIONS be it France UK china and of course USA have carriers is to maintain their sea lanes and their trade.

They are trading nations with vast imports & exports.

India is a VERY LARGE TRADING NATION it needs a powerful navy.

Pakistan with single engined short legged planes will not get within 500km of the carrier.

Regarding your JF17 attacking a indian CBG my question is what if the indians take out your airforce in the first 24 hours to 48 hours

OR DO YOU THINK 220 SU30MKI & 100+ mig29,,,, 50+ mirage2000 and 120 jaguars are for show only .

Will you actually have any JF17 left to strike a CBG with
 
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The reason the BIG NATIONS be it France UK china and of course USA have carriers is to maintain their sea lanes and their trade.

They are trading nations with vast imports & exports.

India is a VERY LARGE TRADING NATION it needs a powerful navy.

Pakistan with single engined short legged planes will not get within 500km of the carrier.

Regarding your JF17 attacking a indian CBG my question is what if the indians take out your airforce in the first 24 hours to 48 hours

OR DO YOU THINK 220 SU30MKI & 100+ mig29,,,, 50+ mirage2000 and 120 jaguars are for show only .

Will you actually have any JF17 left to strike a CBG with

Why do you think that all of your air and naval assets will be used against Pakistan. Their is a reason air force and navy maintain squadrons. Each squadron with a specific task. Their primary training is for war and duty too. Their secondary training and task is to safeguard the territorial waters. if you are intelligent enough you should know jf 17 was never intended to be a strike fighter. Its a platform made to fill the gap of aircrafts and replace the f7's. Comparing the role of jf 17 vs f7 given the duty and operational requirements of the squadrons flying f7, its a big step in the right direction. Mirages of No 8 squadron are kept for maritime purposes. And the recent advancement if indian navy has sparked an urgency in PakistanI camp to acquire dedicated maritime role aircrafts. Even indians know incase of war maximum assets of IN will be tasked to safeguard the AC simply because its the pride of IN. You cant win a battle with an aircraft Carrier its only a support element. If you think indian fighterers can simultaneously attack from sea and land then dont forget that just for that purpose jacobabad airbase js present. It is strategically placed and can easily counter the land threat and the squadrons can safeguard karachi and shipping lines.
 
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Why do you think that all of your air and naval assets will be used against Pakistan. Their is a reason air force and navy maintain squadrons. Each squadron with a specific task. Their primary training is for war and duty too. Their secondary training and task is to safeguard the territorial waters. if you are intelligent enough you should know jf 17 was never intended to be a strike fighter. Its a platform made to fill the gap of aircrafts and replace the f7's. Comparing the role of jf 17 vs f7 given the duty and operational requirements of the squadrons flying f7, its a big step in the right direction. Mirages of No 8 squadron are kept for maritime purposes. And the recent advancement if indian navy has sparked an urgency in PakistanI camp to acquire dedicated maritime role aircrafts. Even indians know incase of war maximum assets of IN will be tasked to safeguard the AC simply because its the pride of IN. You cant win a battle with an aircraft Carrier its only a support element. If you think indian fighterers can simultaneously attack from sea and land then dont forget that just for that purpose jacobabad airbase js present. It is strategically placed and can easily counter the land threat and the squadrons can safeguard karachi and shipping lines.
Lol seriously mistaken dude.
AC carriers won't be needed for a force like Pakistan. IN new OPVs are coming with bramhos and large displacement.
If you want to know what can IN OPV do then revert back to 71 op trident and op python.
The CBG will be used for full naval blockade after your Navy defeated.
On terms naval arm.
Indian naval arm around s a separate unlike Pakistan.
PAF is facing a big qulitative as well as quantity threat.
If they use one squadron of jf 17 and mirage v then I don't see your PAF standing more than 72 hours in a war.
So if you are using jf 17 against mig 29k then only ALLAH can save you as for mirage they are still not comparable to mig and also low in numbers.
And this scenario I am stating after eliminating Indian navy's ground air base which are already equipped with migs for any of your jacocabad air base if you try to do strikes near Indian coastline (which is highly unlikely because it won't be passing Indian ships and destroyers)
 
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The Pakistani navy is hopelessly outgunned, unlike the other two arms and can't fight a conflict in its current state with the Indian Navy. People need some realism here. It will take another 10 years, with an increase of funding to 30% for the navy to build a credible deterrence.
 
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The Pakistani navy is hopelessly outgunned, unlike the other two arms and can't fight a conflict in its current state with the Indian Navy. People need some realism here. It will take another 10 years, with an increase of funding to 30% for the navy to build a credible deterrence.

pakistani submarine fleet can prevent a complete naval blockade. i would expand the submarine fleet which they are doing with the new subs from China. you can keep the indian navy off balance for a few weeks.

I would see if I can acquire 50-100 Russian Su-35 fighters. It would be mighty expensive.

surface vessels are a complete waste.
 
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Believe it or not Ministry of Defense just aid them they did not give Navy a Proper Budget
Navy needs many improvements. They need new Machine like JF 17 Thunders and F-16
Navy is treated as orphan in MOD.
 
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Indian aircraft carrier can enforce a partial naval blockade from 1000 km away, Any Pakistani warship 200 km away from the Pakistani coastline will be a sitting duck to Indian air force strikes.

shoot and scot works well against fixed targets. I am not sure how you plan to track indian warships 500-1000 km away

In the similar way your carrier is going to track Pakistan ships from 1,000 to 500 km away while also distinguishing between warships, merchant ships, Pakistani ships and others...

If your carrier can track sea lanes from 1000 km then we can see them from 1000 km as well... :p

My bro wake-up,,, keeping your career at safe distance will safe it from us but it will also prohibit it from any offensive role...

Furthermore, again I would like to highlight is there is no point of blocking merchant ships as most of them will stop coming to Pakistan as well as Indian ports on Pakistan side as there is full blown war and there is no point of killing them as all of them will be insured and will result in delay in trading activities (which will be already partially halt due to war) main blockade would be of two type of ships 1) oil carriers and 2) possible weapon support... both are from west i.e. from middle east region,,, it means for naval blockade you have to cross all the way Pakistani borders and come accross to the western side of Pakistan away from India... cherry on the top is Gawadar port which is further west to the Pakistan (will be used most in war time situation) .. India has to cross various air bases of Karachi .. both air force and navy maintain bases in karachi to attack these lines which will be operational in west...

My friend attacking sea lanes and complete naval blockade is not as easy as you think,, gone are the days when Bangladesh was in your arms reach... now Pakistan is altogather different story... weak spot of Pakistan navy in 1971 was absence of air arm,, now it has multiple squadron of JF17 and mirages...

An important thing to highlight is all your oil is coming from Pakistan side,,, there is no way that oil can go to india from middle east while passing in safe distance from Pakistan ... so thats why you have to bought a carrier,,, it is not for offensive purpose but for own defense,,, necessary for india,, as in war situation supply lines are most important for which oil lanes have to be kept open ....

Now tell me how will you get oil when there will be JF17 in the sky??? don't tell me that you are going to continuously escort each ship,,, coz thats not possible ...

positioning the aircraft carrier 1000 km off Pakistani coast makes it hard for the Pakistani military to locate & destroy it.

It is obviously less effective than if it is 200 km away. But it is vulnerable to shore based aircraft when it is 200 km away.

the objective of the aircraft carrier is to support ships that will intercept maritime trade traffic headed for pakistan and provide a platform for hunting down pakistani submarines. you do not need an aircraft carrier to hit pakistani navy frigates. Shored based Su-30 MKIs with their brahmos missiles can do it.


How in the world 1000 km away aircraft carrier could detect any merchant ship ? well your MKIs are most welcome to try with brahmoos, but do remember they have to come in Pakistan's territory and no matter the range of brahmos it has to come to 100 kms to 60 kms near frigates to destroy it (range of MKI's own radar to lock on identify the target) means it has also to deal with short range missile system of our frigates (90Km range) furthermore, he will be in range of Pakistan's F16s, mirrages and JF17...

If Pakistan's defences would have been so weak as Indian media told you guys,, then India must have invaded us till now ....
 
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You want to TAKE ON THIS are you MAD.

you have nothing to throw at them

th
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Each one of india guided missle frigates carry 16 brahmos or Klub cruise missles range over 200km
Each one of india Guided misslkes frigates carry up to 48 Barak israeli SAM which has a range of 100km

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The most advanced maritime planes in the world
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3rd NUCLEAR SUB being negoatiated in russia 3 more arihant nucklear subs under construction
 
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