National Space Program 2047 approved by NCA...!

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Having seen SUPARCO up close I am cautiously pessimistic lol.

I think someone (sincere) at SUPARCO has a dream of becoming like NASA, but in truth, the most practical way to develop Pakistan's space program is to emulate Airbus DS, Thales, etc. I don't think these entities are interested in space for its own sake (like NASA), but for commercial reasons. So, everything they do R&D wise is flowing towards that goal, and right now, designing and manufacturing satellites, glide vehicles, etc is where the money's at.

I think Pakistan should take a similar approach. In all honesty, I doubt anyone at GHQ will take a lunar probe or Mars mission seriously, so it's a non-starter. But they might talk about SATCOM, IMINT, and maybe even SATNAV (for independent targeting), and certainly hypersonic glide vehicles, next-gen rocket tech, etc.

Not to be brutal, but for SUPARCO to succeed, it probably needs to be shrunk into more of a research entity (so that it can get access to more overseas resources, events, etc). Otherwise, space development proper should ultimately go to PAC (swap the 'Aeronautical' for 'Aerospace') as AvRID has some R&D capacity, which it can put towards new satellites, launch vehicles, etc.

 

[TsAr]

Developing of satellites and national positioning program should be top most priority. Landing of Mars and moon should be best left to the Americans....

 

[StormBreaker]

To make this successful, we need competent officers from our armed forces. Recent example is PIA which is heading in a positive direction. PIA is considered as strategic asset and I think we should give same importance to space program as well.

All thanks to Air Marshal Arshad Malik.
Ex-Chairman PAC is well capable of handling National Carrier as well brilliantly...

Developing of satellites and national positioning program should be top most priority. Landing of Mars and moon should be best left to the Americans....

And HGVs

 

[Ultima Thule]

And HGVs

And HGV doesn't relates to Space exploration, its will be solely a defense project, its kind a Boost glide vehicle, that's USA worked on in 60s/70s but not adopted on its ICBM, but it were adopted on their last MRBM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pershing_II

 

[JamD]

The satellite development and production work is (as of a statement last year) going to the Pakistan Space Centre (PSC). I think the idea behind PSC will be similar to AvRID, i.e., make maintaining a persistent SATCOM and RSS/IMINT presence as feasible and cost effective as possible, and channel bottom up research across many disciplines to those goals. Long-run, it wouldn't surprise me if PSC rolls into AvRID on the R&D end, and PAC on the production side. Anything beyond that, like a lunar probe, is out there and, to be frank, borderline superfluous.

Can you point me to any information about this "Pakistan Space Center?" I must confess I know little of this. How far is it in development? Where exactly is it supposed to be? Thanks in advance.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Can you point me to any information about this "Pakistan Space Center?" I must confess I know little of this. How far is it in development? Where exactly is it supposed to be? Thanks in advance.

Just that they had budgeted for it for 2018-2019 (IIRC $8 m for 3 sites/sub-bureaus).

The only solace I have in this PSC effort is that satellites have a finite lifespan, and we'll need to regularly replace them in order to maintain our SATCOM and RSS/IMINT capacity. It is of direct national security importance, but it is unique enough to warrant its own entity.

Just my speculation, but the long-term play might be to restore SUPARCO to its research-driven origins, and then push all application work (e.g., satellites, rockets, etc) to different entities.

So, as I see it, satellite design will be PSC's job (just as aircraft design is AvRID's task), but the production work could go to multiple entities, e.g., PAC, China, Europe, Turkey, Kazakhstan, Ukraine etc.

Right now though, PSC is probably a step or two behind AvRID...

The government plans to establish an indigenous facility for development of satellites in accordance with international space standards under its annual development plan for 2018-19. The facility – Pakistan Space Centre will have capability to carry out manufacturing, testing, system level assembly, integration, launch and operations of various types of satellites.​

http://www.app.com.pk/indigenous-facility-planned-develop-satellites/​

 

[messiach]

Perfect.

I care more about ‘Human Development’ in Pakistan. Undoubtedly we need to dream big to achieve something. However, if Pakistan wanted to be among the choicest few in Space exploration, it would have been indeed a worthwhile dream. But to dream about something in 27 years’ time! By 2047 it would have been nearly 80 years that Neil Armstrong landed on the Moon!

Achieving space exploration capability after 4 decades! Would this be such a great achievement?

Instead of wasting our energies and resources on such grandiose projects, why don’t we dream big about improving living standards of ordinary Pakistanis? I would instead change national targets to be achieved in the next 25 years to:

Free education & health for all Pakistanis.

Raising education standards to be at par with the best and have at least 10 Pakistani Universities among the world's top 100.

Raising 90% of Pakistani population to above the poverty line and inculcating respect of Law and Tolerance of differing views.

Bringing Pakistani GDP per capita (Purchase Parity) equal to or nearly equal to the Western European nations.

Once you achieve these targets, progress in the Scientific & Technical fields would be simultaneous and sending a man in space or to the moon would automatically be in your grasp.

Suparco - dead fat fungating bureacratic horse corpse.

Unfortunately, this sounds like a lot of hot air. SUPARCO can't even run IST properly for research, how will they do all these things with other places.

 

[Darth Vader]

For Pakistan to be relevant and becoming Major Power They need to invest in space.
Next 5 Decades Will be the Game Changer for Humanity.
1 Humanity will evolve or Destroy in that time.
Pakistan needs a small but solid space program with chinas help, Pakistan cover the gap quiet quickly.
Needs dedicated Approach with Vision and Constant Backing.

 

[Ultima Thule]

For Pakistan to be relevant and becoming Major Power They need to invest in space.
Next 5 Decades Will be the Game Changer for Humanity.
1 Humanity will evolve or Destroy in that time.
Pakistan needs a small but solid space program with chinas help, Pakistan cover the gap quiet quickly.
Needs dedicated Approach with Vision and Constant Backing.

First we need to improve our economy/ education system, (top class universities) to produce top class scientists and engineers for work in our space program

 

[niaz]

For Pakistan to be relevant and becoming Major Power They need to invest in space.
Next 5 Decades Will be the Game Changer for Humanity.
1 Humanity will evolve or Destroy in that time.
Pakistan needs a small but solid space program with chinas help, Pakistan cover the gap quiet quickly.
Needs dedicated Approach with Vision and Constant Backing.

With due respect Sir,

You need money before you can invest.

Currently, we are forced to beg other countries to deposit funds with us to shore up our FE reserve. Pakistan's current FE reserve with State Bank is about $10-billion (another approx $6-billion with Private Banks). If we pay back the $5-billion to the UAE & Saudi Arabia, State Bank would be left with a mere $5-billion! Barely enough for 5 weeks import bill!

Where the money to invest in the Space Programme is going to come from? Improving our economy is the first & foremost priority; Space Program can wait.

 

[Bilal.]

With due respect Sir,

You need money before you can invest.

Currently, we are forced to beg other countries to deposit funds with us to shore up our FE reserve. Pakistan's current FE reserve with State Bank is about $10-billion (another approx $6-billion with Private Banks). If we pay back the $5-billion to the UAE & Saudi Arabia, State Bank would be left with a mere $5-billion! Barely enough for 5 weeks import bill!

Where the money to invest in the Space Programme is going to come from? Improving our economy is the first & foremost priority; Space Program can wait.

No Sir. The first thing needed is the intent. Intent to look beyond fixing the current issues and looking beyond the horizon and aspiring greatness. Let the intent be in the right direction and rest will be mere details...

 

[PAR 5]

Money Talks. Bull Shit Walks! With the current state of affairs at SUPARCO which is now under SPD, it'll be a really cold day in hell!

 

[fitpOsitive]

And visionary employees, not some dehati rishwat khors

Kafi gehri bat ki hai aapnain.

• Implementation of national space program commenced.
• Includes launches of series of satellites.
• First Pakistani to go into space by 2022. Agreement with China signed.
• LUNAR PROBE
• Mission for MARS
• Pilot project going on for National Positioning System.
• Development of satellites & self reliance.

Center for Aerospace and Strategic Studies (CASS seminar). Watch from 13 min onwards.

Vision 2047? Subhanallah.
This vision will ensure:
1) Jobs for numerous generals and secretaries for long time on high pays even after their retirements.
2) Foreign trips and luxurious cars(in one procurement, 25 millions were spent to buy 2 bullet proof cars for Chairman, who was 3 star General from GHQ) or Satellite bnany k paisy nai thy in sowaron k pass.
3) Truck ki batti for nation.
4) Business for Chinese friends, and hence gifts and what not for a all weather friend.
5) Proper Drain of funds, so that planning commission is not objecting (BTW planning commission asks only when funds are not "utilized", samajh tu aap gaey hongy, main kafi pehly samajh chuka tha, planning commission main aik alag class k harami or sower jama hain, to be honest, mulk main Ghaddaron ki sb se bari concentration planning commission main hi hai, ager yaqeen na hoto investigate kerlain).
6) Acquisitions of more defense equipment in the disguise of "Space program". Hence: mulk ka difah her qeemat per kia jaeyga. Yei wajah thi keh Abdali k bad SUPARCO bhi west ki hit list per aagai thi.
7) Construction of new buildings, and contract goes again to a company owned by, again, an ex-servicemen.

I have tears in my eyes, but I am thinking keh qom k sath yeh mazak kab tak chalyga.
When we were building the bomb, we never set these 2020 or 2050 goals. Never we did that when we were building JFs.
Her project, her policy, her bayam qom ko bewaqoof bnany k liay. Do people of Pakistan have more importance than insects for the elite?
@Mangus Ortus Novem @MastanKhan @Maarkhoor @HAIDER

 

[denel]

Kafi gehri bat ki hai aapnain.


Vision 2047? Subhanallah.
This vision will ensure:
1) Jobs for numerous generals and secretaries for long time on high pays even after their retirements.
2) Foreign trips and luxurious cars(in one procurement, 25 millions were spent to buy 2 bullet proof cars for Chairman, who was 3 star General from GHQ) or Satellite bnany k paisy nai thy in sowaron k pass.
3) Truck ki batti for nation.
4) Business for Chinese friends, and hence gifts and what not for a all weather friend.
5) Proper Drain of funds, so that planning commission is not objecting (BTW planning commission asks only when funds are not "utilized", samajh tu aap gaey hongy, main kafi pehly samajh chuka tha, planning commission main aik alag class k harami or sower jama hain, to be honest, mulk main Ghaddaron ki sb se bari concentration planning commission main hi hai, ager yaqeen na hoto investigate kerlain).
6) Acquisitions of more defense equipment in the disguise of "Space program". Hence: mulk ka difah her qeemat per kia jaeyga. Yei wajah thi keh Abdali k bad SUPARCO bhi west ki hit list per aagai thi.
7) Construction of new buildings, and contract goes again to a company owned by, again, an ex-servicemen.

I have tears in my eyes, but I am thinking keh qom k sath yeh mazak kab tak chalyga.
When we were building the bomb, we never set these 2020 or 2050 goals. Never we did that when we were building JFs.
Her project, her policy, her bayam qom ko bewaqoof bnany k liay. Do people of Pakistan have more importance than insects for the elite?
@Mangus Ortus Novem @MastanKhan @Maarkhoor @HAIDER

It is called self enrichment schemes not for nation building.

 

[SABRE]

6) Acquisitions of more defense equipment in the disguise of "Space program". Hence: mulk ka difah her qeemat per kia jaeyga. Yei wajah thi keh Abdali k bad SUPARCO bhi west ki hit list per aagai thi.

The Hatf-II SRBM that SUPARCO built and the present day Hatf-II Abdali are two different systems. It remains unclear whether the Abdali (new) is SUPARCO's product or NESCOM's. Having said that you have more or less hit the bullseye. Though I do not think SUPARCO would be directly used for a weapons programme. Knowledgebase from missile programme could be diverted to SUPARCO to build long-range SLV, which invariably would signal Pakistan's capacity to build longer-range IRBM and ICBM (4000kms-5500kms). Thereafter, and even before that, the question would be whether we need an ICBM? The short answer is NO!. It would be better to have the knowhow but it is not a strategic necessity.

Indians were clever. They created a separate organization for missile programme and diverted space rocket knowledgebase there to develop ballistic missiles. This way they kept ISRO out of the international blowback, though not completely. Nevertheless, it helped them in keeping their space programme afloat long enough to nurture it to world-class status. We were not clever enough in this regard and put SUPARCO in the line of fire. We are at least 25-30 years behind ISRO, both because of the sanctions and our own lack of interest.