letsbefriends
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i have never visited pakitan but would love to ....perticularly lahore food street..NW DATS CALLED PARADISE ON EARTH(OFCOURSE FOR A FOODIE)
N-deal with Pak could hit ties, India cautions China
- Thread starter Marxist
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i have never visited pakitan but would love to ....perticularly lahore food street..NW DATS CALLED PARADISE ON EARTH(OFCOURSE FOR A FOODIE)
karan.1970
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Not true sir.. Pakistan tried its best at IAEA safeguard approval time to scuttle the deal by raising the bogie of Nuclear imbalance.
Anyway, I agree though that India should just watch how it goes.. There are biggere politics at play here..
btw, is there yet a credible source that names the folks from Indian establishment who seem to have issued this caution to China/??
PracticalGuy
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New Zealand will host the annual plenary meeting of the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) in Christchurch on June 24, 2010. Though not listed in the formal agenda, the proposed China-Pakistan deal to set up two more nuclear reactors at Chashma is likely to come up.
When China joined the NSG it told the group that the Sino-Pakistan nuclear cooperation agreement permitted China to export the Chashma-2 reactor to Pakistan, small research reactors, and the fuel for these units.
On the basis of previous Chinese statements, the United States is expected to argue that the supply of additional power reactors would not be grandfathered. In that sense, the Christchurch meeting will demonstrate how far China is prepared to abide by its commitments to the Non-Proliferation Treaty and the NSG guidelines.
The Indian example is not a precedent since Indias exemption had to go through the US legislative scrutiny and the NSG exemption. Pakistan cannot compare its non-proliferation record with that of India. The exoneration of A Q Khan by the judiciary of charges of unauthorized nuclear trade clearly implies that Pakistani proliferation had the approval of successive governments in Islamabad. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) is still to get access to Khan. The proliferation, Iran being uppermost in international concern, started with a Pakistani deal with that country.
While there are fears in the West that Iranian acquisition of nuclear weapons may trigger an arms race in West Asia as Saudi Arabia is likely to go nuclear to counter Iranian proliferation, the impact of likely Pakistani expansion of its nuclear arsenal exceeding Indias manifold which has been reported on by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) on the west Asian situation, has hardly received any attention. Iran as a Shia Muslim state suffered half a million casualties at the hands of then Sunni leadership of Iraq and was subjected to attacks with weapons of mass destruction (chemical weapons) at the hands of Sunni Saddam Hussein.
Shias are targets of al-Qaida and its associated Sunni extremist organizations such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad and others. Iran and Pakistan were in a state of covert war when Taliban ruled Afghanistan with Pakistani support. While Pakistan supported the Taliban, Iran supported the majority of Dari speaking people, especially the Northern Alliance. Reports from Washington media indicate that there have been secret missile deals between China and Saudi Arabia after 9/11. Even in the 1980s, as Pakistan assembled its nuclear weapons with Chinese proliferation help, it sold long-range CSS-2 missiles to Saudi Arabia. Those missiles did not make sense unless they had nuclear warheads. Since Saudi Arabia was the financier of Pakistani nuclear programme the logical inference was the Saudi missiles will get the Pakistani nuclear warheads when required.
With the Shia majority rule in Iraq the three Shia states Iran, Iraq and Azerbaijan, all oil-rich states, are rising in power and influence and this is a morale-booster for the oppressed Shia minorities in Sunni-dominated countries. The Shia-Sunni animosity goes back to the early years of the origin of Islam itself.
The Iranian nuclear ambitions are likely to be more to counter a two-front encirclement of Shias by Sunni Pakistan and Sunni Saudi Arabia. China appears to be taking full advantage of this conflict to make deals for oil with Saudi Arabia as well as Iran by selling them missiles, lending tacit support to Iran on sanctions and providing Pakistan additional capacity to make plutonium warheads to supply Saudi Arabia. Many observers believe the supply of civil nuclear reactors is only a cover for China to continue to sustain its nuclear proliferation to Pakistan going back to Bhuttos agreement with China in June, 1976. According to the disclosures of two US nuclear scientists, Thomas Reed and Danny Stillman in their book The Nuclear Express, Chinese even conducted the first bomb test for Pakistan on 26th May 1990 at their Lop Nor test site. So strong is the commitment of China to Pakistans nuclear capability.
China has a penchant to carry on successful business in conflict zones like Sudan or Afghanistan. Increased tension in the Af-Paf region or West Asia will make both confronting sides rely on China for missiles. Iran too depends on Beijing to lighten the rigours of sanctions. Now, US scientists have discovered enormous mineral resources in Afghanistan. China is already in the mining business in that country. They will have an interest in ensuring the US and Western multinationals are kept out of this newly discovered mineral treasure. It is time US and its allies looked afresh at the Iranian proliferation issue giving full consideration to the China-Pakistan nexus and the Shia-Sunni divide.
The great China-Pak nuclear nexus - India - The Times of India
When China joined the NSG it told the group that the Sino-Pakistan nuclear cooperation agreement permitted China to export the Chashma-2 reactor to Pakistan, small research reactors, and the fuel for these units.
On the basis of previous Chinese statements, the United States is expected to argue that the supply of additional power reactors would not be grandfathered. In that sense, the Christchurch meeting will demonstrate how far China is prepared to abide by its commitments to the Non-Proliferation Treaty and the NSG guidelines.
The Indian example is not a precedent since Indias exemption had to go through the US legislative scrutiny and the NSG exemption. Pakistan cannot compare its non-proliferation record with that of India. The exoneration of A Q Khan by the judiciary of charges of unauthorized nuclear trade clearly implies that Pakistani proliferation had the approval of successive governments in Islamabad. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) is still to get access to Khan. The proliferation, Iran being uppermost in international concern, started with a Pakistani deal with that country.
While there are fears in the West that Iranian acquisition of nuclear weapons may trigger an arms race in West Asia as Saudi Arabia is likely to go nuclear to counter Iranian proliferation, the impact of likely Pakistani expansion of its nuclear arsenal exceeding Indias manifold which has been reported on by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) on the west Asian situation, has hardly received any attention. Iran as a Shia Muslim state suffered half a million casualties at the hands of then Sunni leadership of Iraq and was subjected to attacks with weapons of mass destruction (chemical weapons) at the hands of Sunni Saddam Hussein.
Shias are targets of al-Qaida and its associated Sunni extremist organizations such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad and others. Iran and Pakistan were in a state of covert war when Taliban ruled Afghanistan with Pakistani support. While Pakistan supported the Taliban, Iran supported the majority of Dari speaking people, especially the Northern Alliance. Reports from Washington media indicate that there have been secret missile deals between China and Saudi Arabia after 9/11. Even in the 1980s, as Pakistan assembled its nuclear weapons with Chinese proliferation help, it sold long-range CSS-2 missiles to Saudi Arabia. Those missiles did not make sense unless they had nuclear warheads. Since Saudi Arabia was the financier of Pakistani nuclear programme the logical inference was the Saudi missiles will get the Pakistani nuclear warheads when required.
With the Shia majority rule in Iraq the three Shia states Iran, Iraq and Azerbaijan, all oil-rich states, are rising in power and influence and this is a morale-booster for the oppressed Shia minorities in Sunni-dominated countries. The Shia-Sunni animosity goes back to the early years of the origin of Islam itself.
The Iranian nuclear ambitions are likely to be more to counter a two-front encirclement of Shias by Sunni Pakistan and Sunni Saudi Arabia. China appears to be taking full advantage of this conflict to make deals for oil with Saudi Arabia as well as Iran by selling them missiles, lending tacit support to Iran on sanctions and providing Pakistan additional capacity to make plutonium warheads to supply Saudi Arabia. Many observers believe the supply of civil nuclear reactors is only a cover for China to continue to sustain its nuclear proliferation to Pakistan going back to Bhuttos agreement with China in June, 1976. According to the disclosures of two US nuclear scientists, Thomas Reed and Danny Stillman in their book The Nuclear Express, Chinese even conducted the first bomb test for Pakistan on 26th May 1990 at their Lop Nor test site. So strong is the commitment of China to Pakistans nuclear capability.
China has a penchant to carry on successful business in conflict zones like Sudan or Afghanistan. Increased tension in the Af-Paf region or West Asia will make both confronting sides rely on China for missiles. Iran too depends on Beijing to lighten the rigours of sanctions. Now, US scientists have discovered enormous mineral resources in Afghanistan. China is already in the mining business in that country. They will have an interest in ensuring the US and Western multinationals are kept out of this newly discovered mineral treasure. It is time US and its allies looked afresh at the Iranian proliferation issue giving full consideration to the China-Pakistan nexus and the Shia-Sunni divide.
The great China-Pak nuclear nexus - India - The Times of India
PakSher
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Another Anit-Pakistan Anti-China, Anti-Saudi Arabia, Anti-Muslim, propoganda by Hindu Extremists in Time of India Staff. Come up with something new.
India is getting all of the nuclear technology but still is whining about others. Same on Hindustimes. Though India portrays to be secular but it is a Hindu country, dominated by Hindus that is why it Hindustantimes. If Saudis learn about the anti-Saudi tone they can start deporting Indians from Saudi Arabia in the millions, so watch your tone.
I can write an article on Jains, and caste systems In Hindu Religion and it will be 7 times longer then this article.
India is getting all of the nuclear technology but still is whining about others. Same on Hindustimes. Though India portrays to be secular but it is a Hindu country, dominated by Hindus that is why it Hindustantimes. If Saudis learn about the anti-Saudi tone they can start deporting Indians from Saudi Arabia in the millions, so watch your tone.
I can write an article on Jains, and caste systems In Hindu Religion and it will be 7 times longer then this article.
PracticalGuy
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I dont know to laugh or feel pity at ur ignorance... do u even know who coined the word "Hindustan" first? and do u actually know the meaning of word secularism?
you are fired
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TaimiKhan
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Yeah we know how much good you guys are at diplomacy, have read history very well.
We have Chashma-1 & KANUPP at Karachi for civilian purposes, then we have a reactor at Kahuta for military purposes making Uranium, while Khushab had already one reactor, 2nd one seems to have started working recently and 3rd one is being built, these are for military purposes and are for plutonium. Chashma II is under construction and most probably by next year will start working. Beside this, we have small research & training purposes reactor at PINSTECH.
This deal is for Chashma 3 & 4, while similarly deals for KANUPP 2 & 3 will also take place once the current on going projects are finished as a Pakistan Nuclear Power Fuel Complex is also being made which is more then 90% complete and hopefully by next year this will be complete too.
So now figure, how many reactors we have, atleast they are not just 2.
Well an idiot will also understand that our nuclear program is India centric, reason being India was the one which tested a peaceful nuclear test by stealing nuclear material under the disguise of peaceful nuclear program, wonder why they had to resort to stealing if they were so strong in diplomacy.
TaimiKhan
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What's not true ?? Am talking about China, not Pakistan. Pakistan off course will object, that is what the Indians do when we even buy a single bullet. So no surprises there. I said China did not opposed the US in NSG when the US-Indo deal was being made, as NSG rules were bended / suspended / broken through the approval of the members.
Agreed. Don't use the back door approach. Stop taking shortcuts and negotiate a deal with the world body and you will have a deal. The only reservation is the approach taken by Pakistan.
An army general asks for a nuclear deal in US of A and is part of a diplomatic mission. Clearly, not a good starting point to get a deal.
First, Pakistan ( and China for that matter) should pursue nuclear deal anyway they see fit.
Second, bilateral deal between Pakistan and China is NOT something indian to decide. Indians can moan that is entertaining; break from bollywood crap.
Third, "indian opinion matter" - seen that in popular toilet paper and we enjoyed you know what ...and flushing that down the toilet.
Pride
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First, They should pursue this deal if it is properly approved by IAEA and NSG other sanctions from these countries are inevitable.
We do not decide any country's any deal except we play diplomatically to serve our nation's purpose. You are unnecessarily trolling bringing in Bollywood here.
Your obsession with toilets and toilet papers are amazing. If Indian opinion does not matter between Sino-Pak N deal why the heck a Bangaldeshi is providing his opinion who is no where associated or impacted by such deals.
Agnostic_Indian
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We are not against pakistans energy needs or development.
our concern is that these tech are duel use and can be used to make or improve your nuks.
now tell me, with all its internal power struggless (not energy but political),growing amount of terrorism,back seat driving by army (your civilian govt can be again taken over by army ) how would india not object the deal. and add to that a q khan helped n korea, and iran in developing nuks.
you may argue that if india can have nuks why not them..ya its may seem to be double standard we feel the same against US. But they are rugged nations dont argue, at lest north korea is one.
with great power comes greater responsibility and im afraid you didn't showed it when you supplied nuke tech to those nations
finally We welcome if the reactors are coming to a peaceful, stable and more democratic pak..if not its always a concern for india.
our concern is that these tech are duel use and can be used to make or improve your nuks.
now tell me, with all its internal power struggless (not energy but political),growing amount of terrorism,back seat driving by army (your civilian govt can be again taken over by army ) how would india not object the deal. and add to that a q khan helped n korea, and iran in developing nuks.
you may argue that if india can have nuks why not them..ya its may seem to be double standard we feel the same against US. But they are rugged nations dont argue, at lest north korea is one.
with great power comes greater responsibility and im afraid you didn't showed it when you supplied nuke tech to those nations
finally We welcome if the reactors are coming to a peaceful, stable and more democratic pak..if not its always a concern for india.
there are only 2 fully CRITICAL reactors and one partial Critical reactor in pakistan , i have provided the link also.
we exploded devices not bombs, unlike Pakistan did by exploding Plutonium based weapon(aqquired directly from china), which can be fitted on missile. One who has fair knowledge of Nuclear Warheads would understand the difference, so it is FRIENDLY!!!!
You said we stealed the material, sorry sir but we do not steal material nor the blueprints from ones lab like AQ Khan. The Material was produced in our reactor aqquired from Canada.
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