Mystery Submarine In Service With Pakistan’s Navy SEALs

[Sine Nomine]

Yep we're on the same page.

The PN had taken a look at DRASS' designs too.

https://www.drass.tech/defence-solutions-drass/

550 sounds promising.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Those satellite images show an antique rusting midget submarine parked there.
Nothing to see here, move on.

And which sub is that? Definitely not the cosmos X craft.

 

[skyshadow]

Don't you think we should go for sub like Iranian Fateh?

Yep I agree, but PN has a little more access to overseas design expertise. So, it should come up with a more modern design than the Iranians.

you say design i say stealth using Non-magnetic steel which hides the submarine from magnetic sensors ( be it from ships, anti-submarine helicopters, mines, etc.), no country on earth will sell PK stealth Subs as they are advance and extremely costly i think only U.S and Germans and Russians and Iran build those type of submarines and except Iran neither one of those are selling theirs to any country.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

you say design i say stealth using Non-magnetic steel which hides the submarine from magnetic sensors ( be it from ships, anti-submarine helicopters, mines, etc.), no country on earth will sell PK stealth Subs as they are advance and extremely costly i think only U.S and Germans and Russians and Iran build those type of submarines and except Iran neither one of those are selling theirs to any country.

Yep. I said the inputs will come from abroad, but I meant that the PN should own the design rights enough so that it can choose its suppliers, customize the submarine for its needs, etc.

So, if the PN can't access non-magnetic steel from Germany, then it should understand the design well enough so that it can source the steel from a willing supplier (e.g., Iran).

 

[syed_yusuf]

you say design i say stealth using Non-magnetic steel which hides the submarine from magnetic sensors ( be it from ships, anti-submarine helicopters, mines, etc.), no country on earth will sell PK stealth Subs as they are advance and extremely costly i think only U.S and Germans and Russians and Iran build those type of submarines and except Iran neither one of those are selling theirs to any country.

Iran ??

 

[Mohsin A]

Rather than retire the old Midget subs, I think Pakistan should convert these into ""Tsunami Bombs" and just place them off the coast of the major cities of any enemy when needed. Not necessarily nuclear deliver but they should be packed with explosives large enough to wreck havoc to the intended target....

 

[Bossman]

Total bullshit. What they see on the dock is vintage Chariot Craft Type vessel. Only one Midget is operational and it is a different type of design than the old Cosmos x crafts. It does go out to the open seas but not as much as it should.

 

[SD 10]

Pak should be extremely attentive to her Navy!! A country's security and her naval power are directly proportional...

A very nice video in Turkish regarding the necessity of Turkey's naval power projection. The Ottoman Empire collapsed for the lack of the powerful navy in the later parts. Now that Turkey is at the least looking at her interests in Libya and the East Mediterranean is due to her using sea and air based assets in combination...

Bottom line: no Navy, no sovereignty...

Yups , read a book by PAUL KENNEDY: ''the rise and fall of great powers'' Ottomanships and the weapons were outdated and their was no innovation by the 16th century, a reason why they lost naval superamancy to the europeans!!!

 

[Zephyrus]

Rather than retire the old Midget subs, I think Pakistan should convert these into ""Tsunami Bombs" and just place them off the coast of the major cities of any enemy when needed. Not necessarily nuclear deliver but they should be packed with explosives large enough to wreck havoc to the intended target....

and how do you plan to do that?
btw the info graphics show routinely shells out misinformation.

 

[Mohsin A]

and how do you plan to do that?
btw the info graphics show routinely shells out misinformation.

Just an idea I thought of randomly
It wouldn't be hard. Just pack the midgets with high density explosives and control them remotely to the destination and then detonate when needed....Like this but on a larger scale......

Could you image the devastation it would cause to harboured naval assets as well has coastal cities targeted!

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

it’s essential that India strengthen its subsurface detection and track capability to thwart any Pakistan anti-access capability in the Arabian Sea and to protect India’s maritime security interests in the region.

They are getting upto 18 P8Is and 24 MH60s not forgetting Corvettes, Frigates and Destroyers they have

 

[skyshadow]

Iran ??

yes, the material needed for Non-magnetic steel production is setup in Navy so Iran can propose them in great numbers

 

[TheBlackCoat]

Pakistan’s New Midget Submarine: Emerging Challenge to India in the Arabian Sea


What will Pakistan’s new indigenous midget submarine bring to its naval capabilities?

By Prakash Panneerselvam
April 29, 2020
Learn more here

Credit: Pakistan Navy Official Website (via Wikimedia Commons)
Pakistan awarded the Agosta 90B Submarine Modernization Project worth $350 million to Turkey-based weapon manufacturer STM. Interestingly, this was the first time Pakistan has selected a Turkish company as the prime contractor for a submarine project. Under this project, STM will be exporting design and engineering services to the Pakistan Navy.

The submarine deals with China and Turkey are expected to be a major game changer for the Pakistan Navy. Along with that, Pakistan is now focusing on building new midget submarines for its Navy.

Pakistan’s Special Service Group (Navy) has been using the Cosmos MG110 midget for overt and covert operations. These submarines have been in service from the early 1990s and are nearing the end of their service lives.

In order to replace these aging submarines, Pakistan has proposed to build a new midget submarine. In the Ministry of Defense Production (MoDP) Year Book 2015–2016, Pakistan listed the development and construction of a midget submarine as a target for 2017–2018. The MoDP documents have also mentioned that midget submarine project will be based on indigenous design and production.

Notably, a recent satellite image (Figure 1) confirms that Pakistan might have indigenously developed a new midget submarine as it proposed in the MoDP 2015–2016.

From 2016 on, one can see the submarine partially covered in a tent in. Since 2019, the submarine can be seen in open view, suggesting that the construction is near completion and that sea trials may have commenced.


Figure 1 –Satellite imagery shows an MG 110 Submarine docked in Karachi Port along with a domestically built new midget submarine. Source: Google Earth, DOI: 18/12/2019 (24°50’3.74″N, 66°58’14.23″E)


Figure 2 – The image shows the fully constructed hull of a new midget submarine at Karachi Port Source: Google Earth, DOI: 2/11/2018 (24°50’3.74″N, 66°58’14.23″E)

Image Analysis

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The midget submarine as seen from the satellite images has a length of around 55 feet (16.7 m) and a beam measurement of around 8 feet (2.43 m). The vessel’s displacement is currently unknown.

The prominent vertical rudder, propeller, and the round-shaped nose are visible from the shadow of the midget submarine. The snorkel is not visible in the image. But it is clear from the image that the submarine appears to be larger than the Swimmer Delivery Vehicle (SDV) and slightly smaller than the MG110 midget submarines.

The compact size of the submarine with simple hull constructions suggests that it is easy to operate and maintain. The vessel can likely be transported over land due to its size. The defense expert H. I. Sutton writes in Forbes that the submarine design is new and doesn’t appear to be an imported one.

Given the present level of cooperation between Pakistan and Turkey, one cannot rule out the possibility of a Turkish firm’s involvement in the development of new midget submarines. In an interview in 2019, Murat İkinci, the general manager of STM, confirmed that the “Pakistan Navy and STM are currently discussing new projects, including serious and dedicated works for midget submarines.” However, there are no official sources to confirm that the new midget submarine has been codeveloped with Turkey.

A Role for the Midget Submarine

The Pakistan has been using new midget submarines for many years now. The development of a new midget submarine not only showcases its indigenous capability, but also shows that Pakistan is prepping its underwater warfare capability.


As Pakistan continues to lay emphasis on a sea denial strategy there is a possibility that it may use the midget submarine in an offensive role during any conflict with India in the coming months and years.

The seaward defense of Karachi has been one of the major challenges for the Pakistan Navy since the 1971 war with India. The midget submarine would fill a gap in protecting Karachi Port from sea-based attack. Most importantly, it would replace the current MG110s in service with the SSG (Navy) for operations such as frogmen operations, laying mines, and so on.

Also, with the Agosta 90B submarines undergoing midlife upgrades and modernization, scheduled to join the Pakistan Navy in 2020, and first four Hangor submarines stated to be delivered in 2023, the Pakistan Navy would find a significant increase in its ability to execute an anti-access and area-denial (A2/AD) posture in the Indian Ocean. Along with that, the new midget submarine would upgrade Pakistan’s underwater warfare capabilities in a significant way.

In short, the changeover in the Pakistan submarine force could pose a real security threat to India in the Arabian Sea. Given India’s preparedness to develop a credible anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capability, Pakistan’s new midget submarine can challenge India’s maritime operations in the Arabian Sea.

Besides, Pakistan might use the new midget submarine to expand its clandestine operations off the western Coast of India, particularly around Gujarat’s Sir Creek area and Mumbai.

Hence, it’s essential that India strengthen its subsurface detection and track capability to thwart any Pakistan anti-access capability in the Arabian Sea and to protect India’s maritime security interests in the region.

Prakash Panneerselvam, Ph.D, is an Assistant Professor at the National Institute of Advanced Studies (NIAS) in Benagluru, India.

https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/pak...erging-challenge-to-india-in-the-arabian-sea/

 

[Octopod]

They are getting upto 18 P8Is and 24 MH60s not forgetting Corvettes, Frigates and Destroyers they have

While the 18 P8Is' is a done deal and is a potent addition to our sub detection/hunting capabilities, 24 MH60R's isn't really sufficient for our huge coastline. On a brighter note regarding surface fleets, entire designing is done by IN's naval design bureau while constructing them in our local shipyards achieving high indigenization and gaining good experience making us completely self-reliant

 

[Bossman]

Figured it out! It is not a midget submarine. Too small for that. It’s a submarine rescue vessel. I think, it can rescue 10 to 12 persons in one sortie.