Muslim Pakistan vs Islamic Pakistan

[Metanoia]

Establish justice as per Islam in Pakistan first and foremost. Baki saree baatein fuzool hai at the moment.

Well, the believers of Islam have never been able to agree upon a single definition of Islam for more than one thousand years now and it is extremely unlikely that they ever will.

There is no "definition of Islam" agreed upon by all sects. Varying/different human interpretations of the (same) divine revelation essentially tend to be contradictory in nature ... This was pointed out by the honorable Supreme Court of Pakistan in 1953/54 ... Mullahs belonging to different sects couldn't agree upon any definition of Islam (accepted by all) when the court asked them to define "Muslim". .... For details see "Munir's Report of 1954". The honorable judges observed:

Keeping in view the several definitions given by the ulama, need we make any comment except that no two learned divines are agreed on this fundamental? If we attempt our own definition, as each learned divine has done, and that definition differs from that given by all others, we unanimously go out of the fold of Islam. And if we adopt the definition given by any one of the ulama, we remain Muslims according to the view of that alim, but kafirs according to the definition of everyone else.

Third rated people this lot, to be honest, who can not even agree on a definition of Muslim. Anyone with an usual amount of grey matter can extract the definition of Islam/Muslim directly from the Quran itself.

Islam/Quran is the domain for humans with intellect. Not for human look alikes who are followers of their base desires, i.e. animal like. One can not expect them to do anything right, let alone let them make public policy or handle critical aspects like law making affecting millions.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Pakistan is bound to become Islamic state

We are talking about today. 2018. This is not about "what will be or fortune telling" Only Allahs knows what will happen in the future.

As of now Pakistan does not accept a person on the basis of being "Muslim". You can be the most clean, poius, Muslim on earth but that does not get you through Islamabad Airport Immigration.

And the day "Muslims" are accepted Pakistan as know we today will cease to exist. To east of our borders for 2,000 miles is nearly 500 million Muslims in 30 countries begining with Afghanistan, Iran, Turkey etc etc etc ...

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Well, the believers of Islam have never been able to agree upon a single definition of Islam for more than one thousand years now and it is extremely unlikely that they ever will.

There is no "definition of Islam" agreed upon by all sects. Varying/different human interpretations of the (same) divine revelation essentially tend to be contradictory in nature ... This was pointed out by the honorable Supreme Court of Pakistan in 1953/54 ... Mullahs belonging to different sects couldn't agree upon any definition of Islam (accepted by all) when the court asked them to define "Muslim". .... For details see "Munir's Report of 1954". The honorable judges observed:

Keeping in view the several definitions given by the ulama, need we make any comment except that no two learned divines are agreed on this fundamental? If we attempt our own definition, as each learned divine has done, and that definition differs from that given by all others, we unanimously go out of the fold of Islam. And if we adopt the definition given by any one of the ulama, we remain Muslims according to the view of that alim, but kafirs according to the definition of everyone else.






Jinnah's vision may not be important for you but many Pakistanis do believe that our salvation lies in bringing back Jinnah's concept of Pakistan ..

still MUSLIMS MUST DECIDE THAT! afterall u dont see us talking abt hinduism or what a genuine hindu and hinduism is. I and plenty of other Muslims take offence to it.
I also agree that abt Quaid e Azam....when it comes to statecraft and how a country must be administrated......but thats not what i had in mind. Muslim and Islam is far more precious then mere nationality.

 

[django]

Pakistan is bound to become Islamic state and when ever Muslims are in majority sooner or later state is destined to become Islamic state not a just a state with majority of Muslims

Hazrat we already have an Islamic constitution, we are Islamic enough PERIOD.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I also agree that abt Quaid e Azam....when it comes to statecraft and how a country must be administrated......but thats not what i had in mind. Muslim and Islam is far more precious then mere nationality.

We are a Nation State and Nation State itself is a modern western concept. The whole idea of Indian Muslim Nationalism developed by Sir Syed and Aligarians that ultimately led to the creation of Pakistan was inspired by the political theories of John Locke, Milton and Thomas Paine. Orthodox Muslims had rejected this idea outright....

Bitterly opposed to this idea were people like Jamaluddin Afghani and Maududi .. Afghani severely criticized Sir Syed for the rejection of the idea of Pan-Islamism by the latter, and Maudoodi described the idea of Muslim Nationalism as unlikely as a ”chaste prostitute” ... (Abul Ala Maudoodi, Mussalman Aur Maujooda Syasi Kashmakash, quoted in K. K.Aziz, The Making of Pakistan, p. 148.)


You may choose to follow Maudoodi , I prefer Sir Syed and Jinnah ...

 

[Umair Nawaz]

We are a Nation State and Nation State itself is a modern western concept. The whole idea of Indian Muslim Nationalism developed by Sir Syed and Aligarians that ultimately led to the creation of Pakistan was inspired by the political theories of John Locke, Milton and Thomas Paine. Orthodox Muslims had rejected this idea outright....

Bitterly opposed to this idea were people like Jamaluddin Afghani and Maududi .. Afghani severely criticized Sir Syed for the rejection of the idea of Pan-Islamism by the latter, and Maudoodi described the idea of Muslim Nationalism as unlikely as a ”chaste prostitute” ... (Abul Ala Maudoodi, Mussalman Aur Maujooda Syasi Kashmakash, quoted in K. K.Aziz, The Making of Pakistan, p. 148.)


You may choose to follow Maudoodi , I prefer Sir Syed and Jinnah ...

Jamaluddin Afghani and Maududi arnt someone i will like to follow as well. Jamalud din afghani's pan islamistic ideas has led us nowhere, and thats how this jamat e islami's ideology comes from....and im strictly against them. I strongly believe they r under CIA influence. Regarding Maududi, I HATE THAT GUY...his son should be shot dead in lahore like a stray dog!

I believe in something else, i dont reject the idea of statehood either. But it is something bigger then these names...BTW im no fan of Sir Syed nor 2 nation theory. Lets just say im just a sharif admi who is a Muslim first then Pakistani. Thats all.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I believe in something else, i dont reject the idea of statehood either. But it is something bigger then these names...BTW im no fan of Sir Syed nor 2 nation theory. Lets just say im just a sharif admi who is a Muslim first then Pakistani. Thats all.

How you prioritize your identities is no one else's concern. I respect your choice. But I believe that Pakistani nationalist ideology is very unique, and (for the Pakistani Muslims at least) Pakistani Nationalism and Islam are not mutually exclusive ..... I for one do not prioritize a Pakistani identity over Muslim identity (or vice versa). But there are those who claim to be Pakistani First, and then there are those who say that they are Muslim First. Both these claims are consistent with Two Nation Theory as the TNT has both ingredients; Pan-Islamic and Nationalist. But as it is Pan-Islamism that is restricted by the Nation State boundary, "Pakistani First", in my opinion, is the more valid and realistic position.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

How you prioritize your identities is no one else's concern. I respect your choice. But I believe that Pakistani nationalist ideology is very unique, and (for the Pakistani Muslims at least) Pakistani Nationalism and Islam are not mutually exclusive ..... I for one do not prioritize a Pakistani identity over Muslim identity (or vice versa). But there are those who claim to be Pakistani First, and then there are those who say that they are Muslim First. Both these claims are consistent with Two Nation Theory as the TNT has both ingredients; Pan-Islamic and Nationalist. But as it is Pan-Islamism that is restricted by the Nation State boundary, "Pakistani First", in my opinion, is the more valid and realistic position.

i agree

 

[Zarvan]

Hazrat we already have an Islamic constitution, we are Islamic enough PERIOD.

No we are not !!!! Not even close

 

[Zibago]

No we are not !!!! Not even close

I would love to hear from you what you want
Something tells me your ideal is the state that existed in Afghanistan before American invasion

 

[django]

No we are not !!!! Not even close

You can choose to lead a pious life without any restrictions on your practice, this is what the constitution guarantees as it is based on Islamic principle and spirit.

 

[Zarvan]

I would love to hear from you what you want
Something tells me your ideal is the state that existed in Afghanistan before American invasion

What I want is Islam and it's crystal clear

You can choose to lead a pious life without any restrictions on your practice, this is what the constitution guarantees as it is based on Islamic principle and spirit.

Islam is a complete system which has to be and will be implemented

 

[django]

Islam is a complete system which has to be and will be implemented

Hazrat the 73 constitution states that "All laws are to conform with the injunctions of Islam as laid down in the Quran and Sunnah", so we already have this in place as this is what the people of Pakistan choose however if you wish to see a Taliban style interpretation of Islam were a man can be arrested if his beard is not long enough then my dear chap you will have to face "Men at their best"!

 

[Zarvan]

Hazrat the 73 constitution states that "All laws are to conform with the injunctions of Islam as laid down in the Quran and Sunnah", so we already have this in place as this is what the people of Pakistan choose however if you wish to see a Taliban style interpretation of Islam were a man can be arrested if his beard is not long enough then my dear chap you will have to face "Men at their best"!

Writing that doesn't mean all our laws are according to Quran and Sunnah no majority are not

 

[El Sidd]

Muslim first then Pakistani

If the state of Pakistan does not recognize you as a Muslim, you are not a Muslim either. You can claim to be anyone you like but that wont matter.