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Moeed Pirzada is right: Pakistan's problem is education

Pakistan problem is restrictive society where kids are discouraged to inquire or ask questions. From day #1 children are taught to shut up
And follow. Anyone that don’t follow gets punished.

Here in western schools and Universities, professors and curriculum provide tool and force students to think and solve problems on their own. Students in Pakistan are spoon feed answers, and shortcut to score max points on exams. There is No fundamental brain grooming and development that take place.


What moeed pirzada is talking about is the not
Just the evolution of education system but also it’s failure to develop thinking and reasoning capabilities in all recent generations.

Frankly both religious or secular education sector failed. I have a school friend, who is employed in Islamabad by MoD in a ThinkTank capacity. That guy is book smart, can quote you things from historical and political science books, but totally naive when it comes to understanding the bigger picture they present and and the western mindset and the system. For example; to him IK should have acted on TLP demands because it would sent strong messages and apparently French would have start shitting their pants. Now this is the failure moeed pirzada trying to point out.

Bingo! I did part of my secondary education in Pakistan and the other in Sweden. I was an A+ in Pakistan but suddenly became a C-D student in Sweden. When I spoke to my teachers about this they explained that I knew all the facts but provided no depth or understanding of the facts. Merely memorising and throwing out facts was enough to get you a pass but if you want higher grades you need to ask the "Why" question!

At that time this did not seem significant to me although I started developing the analytical side of my brain and my grades improved significantly, but over the years it became starkly obvious on the macro-level that the reason why we lag behind is because our Pakistani education system destroys any independent thought and creates individuals who are perfect "followers".

The irony is that in Pakistan you will probably find hundreds of schools and colleges named after the likes of Ibn-Sina, who championed logic and deductive reasoning, but these schools will actively destroy their students capabilities to deduce and analyze matter independently.
 
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Bingo! I did part of my secondary education in Pakistan and the other in Sweden. I was an A+ in Pakistan but suddenly became a C-D student in Sweden. When I spoke to my teachers about this they explained that I knew all the facts but provided no depth or understanding of the facts. Merely memorising and throwing out facts was enough to get you a pass but if you want higher grades you need to ask the "Why" question!

At that time this did not seem significant to me although I started developing the analytical side of my brain and my grades improved significantly, but over the years it became starkly obvious on the macro-level that the reason why we lag behind is because our Pakistani education system destroys any independent thought and creates individuals who are perfect "followers".

The irony is that in Pakistan you will probably find hundreds of schools and colleges named after the likes of Ibn-Sina, who championed logic and deductive reasoning, but these schools will actively destroy their students capabilities to deduce and analyze matter independently.
Same story here, made C and D in my first college level English class, later came back and made As.

These are the first two classes every student are required to take.

English 1310 and English 1320

1. Students will demonstrate command of oral, aural, written, and visual literacy skills that enable people to exchange messages appropriate to the subject, occasion, and audience. ( Competency: Communication)

2. Students will demonstrate creative thinking, innovation, inquiry, and analysis, evaluation and synthesis of information. (Competency: Critical Thinking)

3. Students will effectively develop, interpret and express ideas through written, oral and visual communication. (Competency: Communication)

4. Students will relate choices, actions, and consequences to ethical decision-making. (Competency: Personal Responsibility)

5. Students will recognize different points of view and work effectively with others to support a shared purpose or goal. (Competency: Teamwork
 
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@Genghis khan1 @Kambojaric thank you for sharing your experiences. Yes, in my vision of a carefully planned education system, forming an informed opinion and expressing it well are key skills. We need a transformation of teaching methods to achieve this. Fortunately, it is possible for existing teachers to achieve this.

Current method: read an English lesson, dictate end of chapter questions to students, test them on their memorization.

Proposed method: read an English lesson, and ask children to provide the answers. This should happen in the class, without teacher or parental help. It should start from 3rd grade. In grades 3 or 4, allow children to write the first draft of the answer in Urdu if needed, or in a mixture of Urdu and English, or even a transliteration of Urdu in English. At worst, ask the child to express the answer in Urdu. But then work with the child individually to help him express his own opinion in proper English. This is real learning, and it simply requires many of our teachers to modify their teaching methods.
 
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@Genghis khan1 @Kambojaric thank you for sharing your experiences. Yes, in my vision of a carefully planned education system, forming an informed opinion and expressing it well are key skills. We need a transformation of teaching methods to achieve this. Fortunately, it is possible for existing teachers to achieve this.

Current method: read an English lesson, dictate end of chapter questions to students, test them on their memorization.

Proposed method: read an English lesson, and ask children to provide the answers. This should happen in the class, without teacher or parental help. It should start from 3rd grade. In grades 3 or 4, allow children to write the first draft of the answer in Urdu if needed, or in a mixture of Urdu and English, or even a transliteration of Urdu in English. At worst, ask the child to express the answer in Urdu. But then work with the child individually to help him express his own opinion in proper English. This is real learning, and it simply requires many of our teachers to modify their teaching methods.
English is just a language, Main idea is reasoning skills. mathematicians are hired for their reasoning and logical skills. so the issue isn't reasoning in English, it about brain development. Some languages are evolved different and better at it due to grammatical and sentence structure. I heard German being one. Does not mean German is better than others language overall, but it may have an edge in this regard and that why we hear a lot about German engineering. Native language is better suited for developing these skills. English can always be learned.
 
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English is just a language, Main idea is reasoning skills. mathematicians are hired for their reasoning and logical skills. so the issue isn't reasoning in English, it about brain development. Some languages are evolved different and better at it due to grammatical and sentence structure. I heard German being one. Does not mean German is better than others language overall, but it may have an edge in this regard and that why we hear a lot about German engineering. Native language is better suited for developing these skills. English can always be learned.

Lessons learnt in childhood are the deepest. It is an advantage to our students that they start studying English from an early age.

There is a huge mass of literature present in the English language which we have no hope of translating. Now, of course, tools like Optical Character Recognition combined with AI powered translation can help, but understanding the knowledge out there is only part of the problem. Our people need to be able to communicate effectively in order to defend Pakistan's interests, which involves reading, writing, listening, and speaking. A well crafted article will be more effective in swaying opinion than a poorly written article. A well spoken diplomat will be more useful than someone with rudimentary speaking skills. English today is the language of the world and we should not shy from using it as a weapon. How do you expect to fight in ICJ and FATF without command of English?

In the discussion between Tariq Banuri and Hoodbhoy, I heard Mr Banuri saying that google translate means we don't need to learn English. This is a pitfall that must be avoided. Some reasons I have written above. But there are more.

The general understanding amongst Pakistanis is that in the modern world, people don't really care about language but rather your ideas. This is true when a Russian contorts English but people still pay attention. It is true when a Chinese destroys English but people still pay attention. This is not true when a Pakistani speaks desi English because there is an established notion of Pakistanis being uneducated and backward. The moment they hear broken English, people stop paying attention. Pakistanis need to surmount the double barriers of language and intelligence to make their mark. We have a pre-established image that needs to be wiped. And it will only happen when a critical mass of intelligent Pakistanis is generated who can communicate effectively with their peers around the world. Especially in the domains of foreign policy, and economics.

Now imagine what happens if Pakistani researchers publish in Urdu. Let us first take a look at nations that successfully do this. France, Germany, Russia, China, Japan, Korea are all examples. But there success is a result of much more than merely publishing in their own language. France, Germany, and Russia have a long history of original research in the vernacular, and so there is already a large body of knowledge amassed in their language. You simply cannot try to imitate China with its vast resources. Finally Japan and Korea are economically strong, but they are not independent countries.

Given the above, the best you can hope to achieve is mimic Japan and Korea. Is that really what you want to do? Be like South Korea and China? I for one do not want that.

Then there is the matter of a limited audience. If Pakistani researchers publish in the vernacular, they will have a limited audience. How many people will go to the trouble of translating and reading that research? Let us look at what happened to Russia. Stealth was originally discussed by Russian scientists but the Americans benefited from it. And this is exactly what will happen to your researchers. People will take their ideas, and work further on them without attribution.

Trivializing the importance of English is a pitfall that must be avoided.
 
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Lessons learnt in childhood are the deepest. It is an advantage to our students that they start studying English from an early age.

There is a huge mass of literature present in the English language which we have no hope of translating. Now, of course, tools like Optical Character Recognition combined with AI powered translation can help, but understanding the knowledge out there is only part of the problem. Our people need to be able to communicate effectively in order to defend Pakistan's interests, which involves reading, writing, listening, and speaking. A well crafted article will be more effective in swaying opinion than a poorly written article. A well spoken diplomat will be more useful than someone with rudimentary speaking skills. English today is the language of the world and we should not shy from using it as a weapon. How do you expect to fight in ICJ and FATF without command of English?

In the discussion between Tariq Banuri and Hoodbhoy, I heard Mr Banuri saying that google translate means we don't need to learn English. This is a pitfall that must be avoided. Some reasons I have written above. But there are more.

The general understanding amongst Pakistanis is that in the modern world, people don't really care about language but rather your ideas. This is true when a Russian contorts English but people still pay attention. It is true when a Chinese destroys English but people still pay attention. This is not true when a Pakistani speaks desi English because there is an established notion of Pakistanis being uneducated and backward. The moment they hear broken English, people stop paying attention. Pakistanis need to surmount the double barriers of language and intelligence to make their mark. We have a pre-established image that needs to be wiped. And it will only happen when a critical mass of intelligent Pakistanis is generated who can communicate effectively with their peers around the world. Especially in the domains of foreign policy, and economics.

Now imagine what happens if Pakistani researchers publish in Urdu. Let us first take a look at nations that successfully do this. France, Germany, Russia, China, Japan, Korea are all examples. But there success is a result of much more than merely publishing in their own language. France, Germany, and Russia have a long history of original research in the vernacular, and so there is already a large body of knowledge amassed in their language. You simply cannot try to imitate China with its vast resources. Finally Japan and Korea are economically strong, but they are not independent countries.

Given the above, the best you can hope to achieve is mimic Japan and Korea. Is that really what you want to do? Be like South Korea and China? I for one do not want that.

Then there is the matter of a limited audience. If Pakistani researchers publish in the vernacular, they will have a limited audience. How many people will go to the trouble of translating and reading that research? Let us look at what happened to Russia. Stealth was originally discussed by Russian scientists but the Americans benefited from it. And this is exactly what will happen to your researchers. People will take their ideas, and work further on them without attribution.

Trivializing the importance of English is a pitfall that must be avoided.
Pitfall is the children in your country struggling to learn the foreign language than having a thought clarity in their own language and be able to develop their mind.
Remember their will always be enough English, foreign service and mass communication major to convey your country messages abroad eloquently. You cannot sacrificed whole nations for single purpose. Most kids are not even Urdu speakers, Imagine them learning another foreign language, that 90% will never get to speak in their daily life. Sure teach them English enough, to communicate with the world. But English language by itself has nothing do with development critical thinking.
Folk those are capable and educated enough to publish STEM research paper, are usually educated enough to express their technical finding in English.

World is full ofEnglish speaking people that are dumb. Just watch news channels and documentaries in US. Lengthy line and big words, to express simple idea. Painfully zero substance. Whereas many folk on YouTube are creating awesome STEM content in 20 to 25 min videos.
 
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Pitfall is the children in your country struggling to learn the foreign language than having a thought clarity in their own language and be to develop their mind.
Remember their will always be enough English, foreign service and mass communication major to covey your country messages abroad eloquently. You cannot sacrificed whole nations for single purpose. Most kids are not even Urdu speakers, Imagine them learning another foreign language, that 90% will never get to speak in their daily life. Sure teach them English enough, to communicate with the world. But English language by itself has nothing do with development critical thinking.
Folk those are capable and educated enough to publish STEM research paper, are usually educated enough to express their technical finding in English.

World is full of Dumb English speaking people. Just watch news channels and documentaries in US. Lengthy line, big words, to express simple idea. Painfully zero substance. Whereas many folk on YouTube are creating awesome STEM content in 20 to 25 min videos.

Let us be clear that I am supporting the teaching of English along with independent thinking, creativity, and innovation. English is a skill amongst many other skills. It is no more, and no less difficult than other skills. If you can't teach good English to children, that is a failure of pedantry and this will remain true for other skills as well. Instead of taking the chicken's way out, enhance your teaching methods.
 
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The debate on the role the English language can play is certainly very interesting with sound arguments on both sides. There are ample examples of nations who have developed in the modern era without adopting the English language en masse. South Korea and China are the obvious examples. However one could argue that these nations enjoy a strong centralized core that differentiates them significantly from multicultural and multilinguistic countries like Pakistan and India.

The major benefits of adopting English that I can think of right now are:
1) Easier access to the global economy which is centered on the English language. Being able to communicate more effectively in the global language can open up new avenues for exports. Even the more senior Korean and Chinese business officials will speak English when in European or North American countries.
2) Easier access to academic studies and papers. English is without a doubt the language of science and technology today.

The major downsides of further expanding the role of English are
1) Increasing the divides in society. For example an urban English-medium educated individual will have a hard time understanding the struggles of the rural masses. How can such individuals effectively represent the people they will inevitably rule over when they cannot even communicate with them properly.
2) Confused identity. Far too often adopting the English language in countries like Pakistan goes along with Americanization or Anglicization. Many parents of children who mainly speak English at home will proudly claim their children barely speak any Urdu or Punjabi. There is nothing inherently wrong with learning new languages but such a mentality further increases the divides within society.

My understanding of this debate is that there are definitely some major benefits to increasing the role of English in the Pakistani education system. However if it is to become the official language of teaching across the nation then it has to actually be implemented properly across the nation in order to provide equal opportunities to all segments of society. If only urban areas get access to quality English-medium education and the rest continue with a quasi urdu-local language-english hybrid then this will and is causing further divisions (read: "burger bache")
 
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It seems like we've been discussing this same point for a lifetime. We'll have to wait a long time to see if PTI's new national single curriculum actually makes a difference.

The crux of the matter is that we don't enable independent thinking, questioning without fear, even exploration. This starts before even school. We have a wooden victorian understanding of how children should behave. Good kids sit there quietly, bad children run around and play and are loud and are putting themselves at risk. From early age we are curbing our childrens inquisitive nature because we don't spend money providing them a safe environment to explore and we don't commit time with them. How many people have parents read to them as youngsters? We need to change this mentality.

Also English/no english is only a discussion because we don't translate or write enough books of our own. English might be useful for international communications, or PhD level learning, Domestically we should be teaching our children in their mother tongue and Urdu. I have no problem with them learning English, i think it's really useful and should continue as a language at all levels of education, but maybe not as a medium.
 
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Now, here is the thing. These very same slaves will become an hurdle towards realizing this aim. All it takes is for the enemies within to join ranks and declare 'Disagree'. These are traitors of Pakistan, and I have been flagging them everywhere and will keep flagging them in the future as well.

Its not just us in Pakistan--entire South Asia, Africa and Middle East suffers from this complex. Ruling elite in our regions has managed to keep alive the colonial tradition of "everything local is shit". So here in Pakistan we have brown sahibs in bureaucracy, military and Government. And they are the biggest hurdle in giving respect to our own culture and mother tongue because their whole shtick will go down the drain.

Every single sarkaari office works on afsar shahi model. Sahib of today, the white sahib of colonial times, is to be feared. He is not there to serve the masses, rather he is there to control them. Any good he does for you is a favor and not actually his job. This needs to change before we can even hope for any meaningful reform.
The debate on the role the English language can play is certainly very interesting with sound arguments on both sides. There are ample examples of nations who have developed in the modern era without adopting the English language en masse. South Korea and China are the obvious examples. However one could argue that these nations enjoy a strong centralized core that differentiates them significantly from multicultural and multilinguistic countries like Pakistan and India.

The major benefits of adopting English that I can think of right now are:
1) Easier access to the global economy which is centered on the English language. Being able to communicate more effectively in the global language can open up new avenues for exports. Even the more senior Korean and Chinese business officials will speak English when in European or North American countries.
2) Easier access to academic studies and papers. English is without a doubt the language of science and technology today.

The major downsides of further expanding the role of English are
1) Increasing the divides in society. For example an urban English-medium educated individual will have a hard time understanding the struggles of the rural masses. How can such people effectively represent the people they will inevitably rule over when they cannot even communicate with them properly.
2) Confused identity. Far too often adopting the English language in countries like Pakistan goes along with Americanization or Anglicization. Many parents of children who mainly speak English at home will proudly claim their children barely speak any Urdu or Punjabi. There is nothing inherently wrong with learning new languages but such a mentality further increases the divides within society.

My understanding of this debate is that there are definitely some major benefits to increasing the role of English in the Pakistani education system. However if it is to become the official language of teaching across the nation then it has to actually be implemented properly across the nation in order to provide equal opportunities to all segments of society. If only urban areas get access to quality English-medium education and the rest continue with a quasi urdu-local language-english hybrid then this will and is causing further divisions (read: "burger bache")


Personally speaking, this debate was settled for me against English the day I started teaching my kids.

Reading, understanding and then applying some new concept in your mother tongue is way more easier and efficient. As kids you see these scientific concepts all around you--in TV and in real life. But your kid brain can't make the association with football following a trajectory to the concept you read in your science class because it was in another language. So there is always a barrier between these concepts and real life and our kids resort to cramming these concepts instead of trying to understand them.

And this is the key reason, I believe, why we are bad at core sciences. You need to learn English as a language. You need to learn science, maths and history as the subjects they are in your mother tongue.
The Single National Curriculum proposed exactly this--teach sciences in local languages while keeping English as a separate subject. I expect our brown sahib cadre will fully resist it--lets see how it goes.
 
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In every single country in Europe, children are taught intheir own language. The only role of English is as a foreign language. Same in Japan, Korea, China. It hasn't stopped their progress. All of South America the only language of education is spanish or Brazilian Portugese.

In every country where the colour of people is white teach in their own language, only dark skinned people worship English. Any requirement for English is met by teaching it as a foreign language.
 
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