Modern Sub Machine Carbine / MSMC submachine gun (India)

[Zarvan]

The Modern Sub Machine Carbine / MSMC submachine gun with optional Israeli-made ITL MARS red dot sight installed on the Picatinny rail.



Characteristics



Caliber5.56x30 MINSAS
Weight2.98 kg empty
Length (stock closed/open)500 / 700 mm
Barrel length300 mm
Rate of fire? rounds per minute
Magazine capacity30 rounds


The Modern Sub Machine Carbine / MSMC submachine gun was born from the INSAS (Indian Small Arms System) program, which originally included three weapons - the 5.56mm INSAS assault rifle, the 5.56mm INSAS squad automatic / LMG, based on the rifle, and a compact carbine. The INSAS rifle and LMG are already in service with Indian armed forces, but the original INSAS carbine program faced several difficulties. As a result, it was decided to design a carbine around smaller round, based on the shortened 5.56mm cartridge. The new round appears to be of same concept that experimental American Colt MARS, as it has bottlenecked case 30mm long, loaded with light, pointed bullet with steel penetrator core. The bullet weight is 2.6 gram and muzzle velocity from 300mm carbine barrel is listed as 650 m/s, resulting in muzzle energy value of 550 Joules - similar to modern pistol cartridges. The cartridge, known as 5.56x30 MINSAS, offers effective range of about 200 to 300 meters, with good penetration against body armor. The early carbines for this round, known as MINSAS, were based on the INSAS rifle, lightened and scaled down for shortened round. The MSMC, however, derives from this by having more compact, pistol-type layout, which also offers better balance and better maneuverability, especially in confined spaces.
The Modern Sub Machine Carbine / MSMC submachine gun is intended for Indian Special Operation troops, but it also can make a good Personal Defense Weapon for vehicle and gun crews and other non-infantry personnel operating in combat zones. As of now (spring 2010), the Modern Sub Machine Carbine / MSMC submachine gun is in its final stages of T&E by Indian military.

The Modern Sub Machine Carbine / MSMC submachine gun is a gas operated weapon, utilizing rotary bolt locking and a gas piston, located above the barrel. The receiver appears to be made from sheet steel, with outer polymer housing with integral pistol grip. The magazines are inserted into the pistol grip. Buttstock is of telescoped type. Safety / fire mode selector is ambidextrous and conveniently located above the trigger. Standard iron sights are complemented by the Picatinny rail, which can host a wide array of additional day and night sighting equipment. Another unusual accessory for the Modern Sub Machine Carbine / MSMC submachine gun is the bayonet lug, which is located above the barrel, just in front of the receiver.
Modern Firearms - MSMC

@jarves @janon @nair @Skull and Bones @Ravi Nair

 

[veekysingh]

I think it faild the trails.

 

[Skull and Bones]

I think it faild the trails.

The target usability was too small to be taken into consideration. Still, it was a nice platform.

 

[veekysingh]

The target usability was too small to be taken into consideration. Still, it was a nice platform.

any recent news on our new gun?

 

[Skull and Bones]

any recent news on our new gun?

No mate, i don't track those news anymore.

 

[veekysingh]

No mate, i don't track those news anymore.

Never mind. I did try but got nothing new.

 

[he-man]

Never mind. I did try but got nothing new.

Then it most probably turned out to be a dud during trials

 

[MilSpec]

Then it most probably turned out to be a dud during trials

I have no faith in MSMC. It epitomizes the lack of foresight, laziness and lack of creativity from DRDO. It uses the same long sroke gas block from Insas which was copied from AK to begin with, apart from that it uses a 5.56 x 30 cartridge, which will have the same stopping power as the 22LR ( may be a tad more), I am sure Indian army is not accepting this stupidity of drdo!!!!!

OFB manufactured standard 5.56 x 45 is already underpowered, when you take 5.56 x 45 (energy 1125 ft/lb )and cut it down to 30mm case length, your energy drops to something around 750 ft/lb. 5.56 nato's main advantage has been it's high velocity which compensates for it's small diameter, but when you cut down the case length, you end up with crappy terminal ballistics and crappy velocity. A 9mm round still will travel at a lower velocity than the 5.56 x 30 but will have a projectile almost twice the diameter, the bullet weight at 9.54 grains for ofb 9mm fmj is twice of the 5.56, hence it will be much more effective at close range. Your optics wont do anything if your bullet cannot take down the enemy, unless you plan of flinging optics to take down your enemy...

one some threads I can just copy paste

 

[he-man]

one some threads I can just copy paste

Not a revelation at all!

Creativity from drdo is expecting too much.
Not critisising or such but not being able to even make a good modern gun is defenceless for an organisation thats making tall claims about agni 5.

Further reason to look for disinvestment of drdo.

I know sandy u will try to break my balls again(lol) but we need to offer incentives to private player.
I don't mind reliance making windfall profits or tatas for that matter as long as they deliver.

And drdo just cannot deliver,there are many reasons for that,the primary one would be 50 pc reservation.u can contest me on my claim but those 50 pc however sincere they are did not deserve a place there.

In private that will be eliminated but govt needs to give huge incentives in first 5-10 years.

We have already fucked up by stopping the reliance to make rafales in india

 

[MilSpec]

Not a revelation at all!

Creativity from drdo is expecting too much.
Not critisising or such but not being able to even make a good modern gun is defenceless for an organisation thats making tall claims about agni 5.

Further reason to look for disinvestment of drdo.

I know sandy u will try to break my balls again(lol) but we need to offer incentives to private player.
I don't mind reliance making windfall profits or tatas for that matter as long as they deliver.

And drdo just cannot deliver,there are many reasons for that,the primary one would be 50 pc reservation.u can contest me on my claim but those 50 pc however sincere they are did not deserve a place there.

In private that will be eliminated but govt needs to give huge incentives in first 5-10 years.

We have already fucked up by stopping the reliance to make rafales in india

"I know sandy u will try to break my balls again(lol) but we need to offer incentives to private player."

The funny thing is I am all for privatization and competition, but privatization is not a magic wand for all problems, certain problems need specific solutions. My views on small arms are amply clear. read for your self.

India's Small Arms Dillema

 

[he-man]

"I know sandy u will try to break my balls again(lol) but we need to offer incentives to private player."

The funny thing is I am all for privatization and competition, but privatization is not a magic wand for all problems, certain problems need specific solutions. My views on small arms are amply clear. read for your self.

India's Small Arms Dillema

I told u the biggest problem,its reservation.

And yes we needed reliance instead of HAL in the rafale case.
There would not be such chance for an indian company in at least next 30 years,no.

As far as small arms go I fail to understand why the hell we are unable to make even a good pistol?

 

[he-man]

Read ur thread,i agree with u.

U have given solid points but whats the reason of ofb and drdo failure?

 

[MilSpec]

Read ur thread,i agree with u.

U have given solid points but whats the reason of ofb and drdo failure?

Unless the problem is defined there can be no solution, we can keep implementing open ended solutions, and hope they stick but that is really bad solution.

OFB, DRDO, HAL, SAIL, are not monolith's and there is no quick fix for the wide variety of problems that plague them. I don't know about thier problems and thus I cannot comment on the "reason" for their failure either.

First step to solving a enterprise related crisis is usually hiring better management. OFB is not a monolith they produce everything droptanks, to parachutes, to boots to uniforms to small arms to arty, to naval guns. The primary issue seems to be in artillery and small arms. No one seems to be complaining about the uniforms or sweaters, so I guess those units are doing fine.

Small arms part of this discussion is even more intriguing because Handguns, rifles and ammunition has very low manufacturing cost and has a huge markup on them, thus making them a very lucrative market. A berreta 92fs retails for about $650, the manufacturing cost on the line is about $55-75, an AK47 retails for $450-600 and costs about $60 to make. Now if export regime is loosened, and wider market is offered to private players, making an investment in area is very feasible. India has a huge market of talent for machinists, and foundry specialists. Small arms market is the prime candidate for opening to private companies, but due to institutional inaction it doesn't happen. If and Indian manufacturer is allowed to manufacture say probibeted bore firearms for local law enforcement, armed forces and allowed to export to US, Canada, south america, and african markets, it will make for a very good business venture, but government redtape completely marred this industry.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I heard the NSG has trailed the MSMC, not sure of the outcome of such user trails. However I heard from a separate source the NSG had placed an order but can't confirm this.

 

[MilSpec]

I heard the NSG has trailed the MSMC, not sure of the outcome of such user trails. However I heard from a separate source the NSG had placed an order but can't confirm this.

I would highly doubt acceptance, unless there is change in the caliber...