Modern multirole fighter assessment

[500]

Fighters I compare.

F-35
Typhoon
Rafale
MiG-35
F-18E
Gripen NG
Su-35
F-15SG
F-16E
J-10A

================
There are 5 categories in each I give 100 points max:

1) Agility
2) Top speed + ceiling
3) Range
4) RCS
5) Radar aperture

=====================
Agility.

I calculate it using wing loading (lesser is better) and TW ratio with half fuel + 500 kg. Results:

F-35 ---- 71 points
Typhoon --- 100
Rafale -- 96
MiG-35 -- 82
F-18E --- 79
Gripen NG -- 82
Su-35 --- 80
F-15SG -- 79
F-16E --- 78
J-10A --- 81

Now I add 3 points for high AoA (F-35, MiG-35, F-18, Su-35)
3 points for high roll (F-35, F-16)
6 points for TVC (MiG-35, Su-35)

Final points for Agility:

F-35 --- 77
Typhoon --- 100
Rafale --- 96
MiG-35 -- 91
F-18E --- 82
Gripen NG -- 82
Su-35 --- 89
F-15SG --- 79
F-16E --- 81
J-10A --- 81

===========================
Speed and Ceiling:

F-35 --- 74
Typhoon --- 86
Rafale --- 78
MiG-35 --- 95
F-18E --- 78
Gripen NG --- 82
Su-35 --- 94
F-15SG --- 100
F-16E --- 82
J-10A --- 93

I add 3 points to F-35 for ability to carry weapons inside with no drag penalty. So it gets 77 points
============================
Range

I used formula (fuel/empty weight + half fuel + 2 tons of weapons), then converted to points:

F-35 --- 98
Typhoon --- 66
Rafale --- 75
MiG-35 --- 64
F-18E --- 79
Gripen NG --- 69
Su-35 --- 100
F-15SG --- 97
F-16E --- 77
J-10A --- 73

================================
Stealth

Used these RCS numbers:

F-35 --- 0,01 m^2
Typhoon -- 1
Rafale --- 1
MiG-35 --- 7
F-18E --- 1
Gripen NG --- 1
Su-35 --- 8
F-15SG --- 10
F-16E --- 2
J-10A --- 5

Then calculated detection range and converted to points:

F-35 --- 100
Typhoon --- 32
Rafale --- 32
MiG-35 --- 19
F-18E --- 32
Gripen NG --- 32
Su-35 --- 19
F-15SG --- 18
F-16E --- 27
J-10A --- 21

==========================================
Radar

I used these numbers for radar aperture:

F-35 --- 700 mm
Typhoon --- 700
Rafale --- 600
MiG-35 --- 624
F-18E ---- 700
Gripen NG -- 500
Su-35 --- 975
F-15SG --- 950
F-16E --- 660
J-10A --- 700

Converted to points:

F-35 --- 72
Typhoon --- 72
Rafale --- 62
MiG-35 ---- 64
F-18E --- 72
Gripen NG --- 51
Su-35 --- 100
F-15SG --- 97
F-16E --- 68
J-10A --- 72

Add 10 points to F-35 for high technology.

============================================

Now I calculate the average of 5 ranks

Final results:

1 F-35 -- 87
2 Su-35 --- 80
3 F-15SG -- 78
4 Typhoon - 71
5 Rafale ---- 69
6 F-18E ---- 69
7 J-10 ------ 68
8 F-16E ---- 67
9 MiG-35 --- 67
10 Gripen NG -- 63

 

[Robin_k]

why you not include su-30?

 

[500]

why you not include su-30?

Because both Su-30 and Su-35 are versions of Su-27. I chose the most modern version.

Su-30 gets 77 points (less powerful engine, less fuel, bit heavier).

And here the F-22 tanking:
agility - 103
speed ceiling - 99
range - 73
stealth - 100
radar - 100
-----------------------
95 points. But its not exactly multirole fighter. Thats why I did not include it in my ranking.

 

[haman10]

J-10 ....

what a crappy fighter ....

or is it ? lol

 

[Ahmad Masood]

Su-30 gets 77 points (less powerful engine, less fuel, bit heavier).

Thats not bad at all being at par with F - 15 SG. Although an expert will soon jump in to criticize (may be).

 

[OrionHunter]

why you not include su-30?

Ego problems I guess!

 

[IND151]

Fighters I compare.

F-35
Typhoon
Rafale
MiG-35
F-18E
Gripen NG
Su-35
F-15SG
F-16E
J-10A

================
There are 5 categories in each I give 100 points max:

1) Agility
2) Top speed + ceiling
3) Range
4) RCS
5) Radar aperture

=====================
Agility.

I calculate it using wing loading (lesser is better) and TW ratio with half fuel + 500 kg. Results:

F-35 ---- 71 points
Typhoon --- 100
Rafale -- 96
MiG-35 -- 82
F-18E --- 79
Gripen NG -- 82
Su-35 --- 80
F-15SG -- 79
F-16E --- 78
J-10A --- 81

Now I add 3 points for high AoA (F-35, MiG-35, F-18, Su-35)
3 points for high roll (F-35, F-16)
6 points for TVC (MiG-35, Su-35)

Final points for Agility:

F-35 --- 77
Typhoon --- 100
Rafale --- 96
MiG-35 -- 91
F-18E --- 82
Gripen NG -- 82
Su-35 --- 89
F-15SG --- 79
F-16E --- 81
J-10A --- 81

===========================
Speed and Ceiling:

F-35 --- 74
Typhoon --- 86
Rafale --- 78
MiG-35 --- 95
F-18E --- 78
Gripen NG --- 82
Su-35 --- 94
F-15SG --- 100
F-16E --- 82
J-10A --- 93

I add 3 points to F-35 for ability to carry weapons inside with no drag penalty. So it gets 77 points
============================
Range

I used formula (fuel/empty weight + half fuel + 2 tons of weapons), then converted to points:

F-35 --- 98
Typhoon --- 66
Rafale --- 75
MiG-35 --- 64
F-18E --- 79
Gripen NG --- 69
Su-35 --- 100
F-15SG --- 97
F-16E --- 77
J-10A --- 73

================================
Stealth

Used these RCS numbers:

F-35 --- 0,01 m^2
Typhoon -- 1
Rafale --- 1
MiG-35 --- 7
F-18E --- 1
Gripen NG --- 1
Su-35 --- 8
F-15SG --- 10
F-16E --- 2
J-10A --- 5

Then calculated detection range and converted to points:

F-35 --- 100
Typhoon --- 32
Rafale --- 32
MiG-35 --- 19
F-18E --- 32
Gripen NG --- 32
Su-35 --- 19
F-15SG --- 18
F-16E --- 27
J-10A --- 21

==========================================
Radar

I used these numbers for radar aperture:

F-35 --- 700 mm
Typhoon --- 700
Rafale --- 600
MiG-35 --- 624
F-18E ---- 700
Gripen NG -- 500
Su-35 --- 975
F-15SG --- 950
F-16E --- 660
J-10A --- 700

Converted to points:

F-35 --- 72
Typhoon --- 72
Rafale --- 62
MiG-35 ---- 64
F-18E --- 72
Gripen NG --- 51
Su-35 --- 100
F-15SG --- 97
F-16E --- 68
J-10A --- 72

Add 10 points to F-35 for high technology.

============================================

Now I calculate the average of 5 ranks

Final results:

1 F-35 -- 87
2 Su-35 --- 80
3 F-15SG -- 78
4 Typhoon - 71
5 Rafale ---- 69
6 F-18E ---- 69
7 J-10 ------ 68
8 F-16E ---- 67
9 MiG-35 --- 67
10 Gripen NG -- 63

Nice thread.

Because both Su-30 and Su-35 are versions of Su-27. I chose the most modern version.

Su-30 gets 77 points (less powerful engine, less fuel, bit heavier).

And here the F-22 tanking:
agility - 103
speed ceiling - 99
range - 73
stealth - 100
radar - 100
-----------------------
95 points. But its not exactly multirole fighter. Thats why I did not include it in my ranking.

This will change with Super MKI.

However MKI is better than basic Su-30 as it has many western avionics along with TVC and canards.

 

[dbc]

@500 What is your definition of agility? If it is the traditional thrust to weight, sustained turning rate, roll rate and alpha then it is more suitable for comparing the agility of the F-86 Sabre vs the Mig-15.

If you look at modern fighters such as the Rafale, Typhoon and the F/A-18 Super Hornet each have its own unique advantage. For instance the Typhoon is superior in axial agility this is described as transition from one state to another around the velocity vector. For instance, you will not see the Rafale or the Super Hornet execute a velocity vector roll. In the lateral the Rafale is clearly superior you will not see the Typhoon or the Super Hornet roll as well as the Rafale. While the Super Hornet is superior in the longitudinal or pitching plane as demonstrated in air shows by what is described as the square loop.

Some of these flying qualities result in a great airshow but does not really translate to superior air combat capability. It is for you to decide which of the abilities are relevant to combat and score accordingly.

 

[500]

@500 What is your definition of agility? If it is the traditional thrust to weight, sustained turning rate, roll rate and alpha then it is more suitable for comparing the agility of the F-86 Sabre vs the Mig-15.

If you look at modern fighters such as the Rafale, Typhoon and the F/A-18 Super Hornet each have its own unique advantage. For instance the Typhoon is superior in axial agility this is described as transition from one state to another around the velocity vector. For instance, you will not see the Rafale or the Super Hornet execute a velocity vector roll. In the lateral the Rafale is clearly superior you will not see the Typhoon or the Super Hornet roll as well as the Rafale. While the Super Hornet is superior in the longitudinal or pitching plane as demonstrated in air shows by what is described as the square loop.

Some of these flying qualities result in a great airshow but does not really translate to superior air combat capability. It is for you to decide which of the abilities are relevant to combat and score accordingly.

As I said i counted agility by comparing wing loading and TW ratio (empty weight + half fuel + 500 kg).

These are objective numbers. Then I also added points for roll, alpha and TVC.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I think u need to stop these comparable threads now.

 

[500]

I rearranged my calculations. I gave more weight to TW ratio compare to wing loading (2 to1). I also added data for radar ranges, instead of dome size. Here we go.

1. Agility

TW ratio and wing loading are calculated for half fuel + 500 kg of load. Bonus points: 3 points for high AoA (F-35, MiG-35, F-18, Su-35). 3 points for high roll (F-35, F-16) 5 points for TVC (MiG-35, Su-35).

2. Speed and Ceiling

Bonus points 10 for supercruise, 3 for internal carriage.

3. Range

(fuel/empty weight + half fuel + 2 tons of weapons)

4. Stealth

5. Radar

Total points

Final Rank:

1. F-22 --------------------- 99
2. F-35A ------------------- 87
3. Su-35 ------------------- 81
4. Typhoon (AESA) ----- 78
5. F-15SG ----------------- 77
6. Su-30MKI (AESA) -- 76
7. Rafale (AESA) -------- 71
8. Typhoon ---------------- 70
9. MiG-35 ------------------- 69
10. F-18E ------------------- 68
11. Su-30MKI -------------- 68
12. J-10B (AESA) -------- 68
13. Rafale ------------------- 67
14. F-2A --------------------- 66
15. F-16E ------------------- 66
16. Gripen NG ------------- 64
17. J-10A -------------------- 61
18. JF-17 (AESA) -------- 59
19. Gripen ------------------- 56
20. JF-17 --------------------- 55

I think u need to stop these comparable threads now.

When u grow up and marry u could tell ur wife what to do.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I rearranged my calculations. I gave more weight to TW ratio compare to wing loading (2 to1). I also added data for radar ranges, instead of dome size. Here we go.

1. Agility

TW ratio and wing loading are calculated for half fuel + 500 kg of load. Bonus points: 3 points for high AoA (F-35, MiG-35, F-18, Su-35). 3 points for high roll (F-35, F-16) 5 points for TVC (MiG-35, Su-35).

2. Speed and Ceiling

Bonus points 10 for supercruise, 3 for internal carriage.

3. Range

(fuel/empty weight + half fuel + 2 tons of weapons)

4. Stealth

5. Radar

Total points

Final Rank:

1. F-22 --------------------- 99
2. F-35A ------------------- 87
3. Su-35 ------------------- 81
4. Typhoon (AESA) ----- 78
5. F-15SG ----------------- 77
6. Su-30MKI (AESA) -- 76
7. Rafale (AESA) -------- 71
8. Typhoon ---------------- 70
9. MiG-35 ------------------- 69
10. F-18E ------------------- 68
11. Su-30MKI -------------- 68
12. J-10B (AESA) -------- 68
13. Rafale ------------------- 67
14. F-2A --------------------- 66
15. F-16E ------------------- 66
16. Gripen NG ------------- 64
17. J-10A -------------------- 61
18. JF-17 -------------------- 59
19. Gripen ------------------- 56
20. JF-17 --------------------- 55



When u grow up and marry u could tell ur wife what to do.

check the rank 18 and 20.

 

[Storm Force]

I think the ranking are very clever and great deal of hard work mustr have gone into this excercise.

To me the final ranking

. F-22 --------------------- 99
2. F-35A ------------------- 87
3. Su-35 ------------------- 81
4. Typhoon (AESA) ----- 78
5. F-15SG ----------------- 77
6. Su-30MKI (AESA) -- 76
7. Rafale (AESA) -------- 71
8. Typhoon ---------------- 70
9. MiG-35 ------------------- 69
10. F-18E ------------------- 68
11. Su-30MKI -------------- 68
12. J-10B (AESA) -------- 68
13. Rafale ------------------- 67
14. F-2A --------------------- 66
15. F-16E ------------------- 66
16. Gripen NG ------------- 64
17. J-10A -------------------- 61
18. JF-17 -------------------- 59
19. Gripen ------------------- 56
20. JF-17 --------------------- 55

The highlighted ones are very relevant because they cover our neighbourhood SOUTH ASIA.

The research concludes what i assumed

The best fighter ovrall in South Asia is the su30mki
Followed by the F16
jf17 IS good but comes much lower than the falcon/su30mki

RAFALE will take things to another upper level

 

[500]

I need some correction. MiG-35 is detection for 1018 modules radar, however currently Zhuk-AE radar has only 680 modules. So it downgrades detection range to about 70 km.

Final Rank:

1. F-22 --------------------- 99
2. F-35A ------------------- 87
3. Su-35 ------------------- 81
4. Typhoon (AESA) ----- 78
5. F-15SG ----------------- 77
6. Su-30MKI (AESA) -- 76
7. Rafale (AESA) -------- 71
8. Typhoon ---------------- 70
9. MiG-35 (1018 mod) - 69
10. F-18E ------------------- 68
11. Su-30MKI -------------- 68
12. J-10B (AESA) -------- 68
13. Rafale ------------------- 67
14. F-2A --------------------- 66
15. F-16E ------------------- 66
16. Gripen NG ------------- 64
17. MiG-35 (680 mod) -- 62
18. J-10A -------------------- 61
19. JF-17 (AESA) -------- 59
20. Gripen ------------------- 56
21. JF-17 --------------------- 55

 

[AUz]

@500

The most advance/lethal F-15 is that of KSA airforce and not F-15SG (Singapore)...or are they same? Am I missing something? Why didn't you use KSA's most latest F-15 as a comparison?

I think the ranking are very clever and great deal of hard work mustr have gone into this excercise.

To me the final ranking

. F-22 --------------------- 99
2. F-35A ------------------- 87
3. Su-35 ------------------- 81
4. Typhoon (AESA) ----- 78
5. F-15SG ----------------- 77
6. Su-30MKI (AESA) -- 76
7. Rafale (AESA) -------- 71
8. Typhoon ---------------- 70
9. MiG-35 ------------------- 69
10. F-18E ------------------- 68
11. Su-30MKI -------------- 68
12. J-10B (AESA) -------- 68
13. Rafale ------------------- 67
14. F-2A --------------------- 66
15. F-16E ------------------- 66
16. Gripen NG ------------- 64
17. J-10A -------------------- 61
18. JF-17 -------------------- 59
19. Gripen ------------------- 56
20. JF-17 --------------------- 55

The highlighted ones are very relevant because they cover our neighbourhood SOUTH ASIA.

The research concludes what i assumed

The best fighter ovrall in South Asia is the su30mki
Followed by the F16
jf17 IS good but comes much lower than the falcon/su30mki

RAFALE will take things to another upper level

JF-17 block II has a better radar (increased modes, and increased range), more range (more fuel/air-to-air refueling), more powerful engine (improved RD-93)...and improved electronics/avionics.

So JF-17 block II is like 61/62 compared with Su-30MKI 68 (majority of Su-30s and JF-17s aren't AESA as of now)...

So @500 research actually proves that JF-17 is a very potent fighter compared to its price-tag...and moreover, su-30 is a powerful plane but no raptor.

Difference between Su-30MKI and JF-17 isn't that much...Even our JF-17s can give a bloody nose to Su-30MKIs, with effective and smart tactics...forget about our latest F-16s which are equipped with the best BVR missles in South Asia and are more than a match to Su-30s

So delusions of indians who think that IAF holds some "decisive" edge/superiority over PAF is only more laughable now after this thread.

In any war, the air force that deploys its tactics smartly will over-come the adversary. There is no "decisive" superiority of IAF w.r.t to PAF...

Note: ALL PAF JF-17s are either block II level or being converted to block II level.

JF-17 Thunder block II is the first 'real' JF-17 that would be deployed en masse by PAF.