Missile sale from France to Egypt depends on US permission, Dassault head says

[The SC]

PARIS — The French government must seek U.S. authorization before selling French Scalp cruise missiles with American components to Egypt, said Eric Trappier, chairman and CEO of Dassault Aviation.

Those U.S. parts on the long-range weapon are critical to its ability to function.
Egypt is in talks with France on exercising an option for 12 Rafale fighter jets, business website La Tribune reported. That option was included in a 2015 contract for 24 twin-jet fighters and weapons from Safran and MBDA.

“This is very sensitive,” Trappier said March 8 at a media conference on 2017 financial results. “This is a government-to-government contract. If there are authorizations, then it is up to the government for the component and the government for the aircraft.”

Dassault has delivered 14 of Egypt’s order for 24 Rafale aircraft.

The French Armed Forces Ministry and MBDA declined to comment.

A U.S. State Department official said that “as a matter of policy, we do not comment on private diplomatic exchanges, and we are restricted under federal law from commenting on issues related to specific commercial defense export licensing cases.”

Egypt was the first export client for the Rafale, which was part of a French arms deal that included a Naval Group multimission frigate and four Gowind corvettes, with options for two more. Egypt went on to buy two Mistral helicopter carriers, which France had bought back from Russia.

Previously, France ran into U.S. authorization problems on a 2013 sale of two Falcon Eye spy satellites to the United Arab Emirates. That contract lapsed, as U.S. authorization under the International Traffic in Arms Regulations for two key components was slow. France eventually closed that deal with the UAE in 2014, but only after then-French President François Hollande and then-U.S. President Barack Obama met at the White House and agreed to speed up the authorization.

Dassault expects a down payment from Qatar “shortly” after exercising an option in December for 12 more Rafale fighters, Trappier said. That adds to an initial order for 24 units. Doha also asked for options for 36 more units.

Asked about legal doubt over the French government-to-government offer of the Rafale to Belgium, Trappier said it was simply up to the Belgian government to exercise its national sovereignty, and decide whether to opt out of its fighter competition and pick the Rafale.

The U.S. and Britain have pitched respectively the F-35 and Eurofighter Typhoon in the Belgian tender.

Malaysia is due to hold general elections soon, and Dassault expects to continue talks with the new administration on its offer of the Rafale.

“The discussions will resume with the arrival of the next government,” he said, addressing doubts over Malaysia’s interest in the French fighter following the European Union’s move to curb imports of palm oil. With Britain leaving the EU, Malaysia has signaled a change in interest to the Eurofighter, Reuters reported.

Dassault expects Switzerland to launch a competition soon to replace the F-5 and F-18. The firm has high hopes for the Rafale, the executive said.
A previous Swiss tender picked the Saab Gripen to replace the F-5, but that selection was canceled in a public referendum.

Dassault expects the French government to sign a contract soon for three new Falcon jets for its Epicure airborne universal electronic warfare program, replacing an aging fleet of two Transall Gabriel aircraft. The selection likely will be the 7X or 8X versions of the Falcon twin-engine jets, Trappier said, and the deal will be will be shared with Thales.

Dassault expects Japan will order more Falcon jets for surveillance and electronic warfare on top of the four units already ordered, he said.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...-depends-on-us-permission-dassault-head-says/

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I guess the Rafale can do nice acrobatic missions in parades now

 

[HannibalBarca]

I guess the Rafale can do nice acrobatic missions in parades now

Many wouldn't be able to understand such meaning...

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Without missiles machines are quite useless

 

[khansaheeb]

Without missiles machines are quite useless

Even with missiles the Egyptian Air force is useless, historically!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I wonder how Egyptians view this snub, specially since Israevil was pushing Egypt to go do drilling in Cyprus along side Turkish waters to kick start a fire storm

And just at right time they cancelled the missile supply to Egypt

It is almost like you lead the Lamb into Battle with Turkey , and then you take away all protection from Lamb

Typical divide and conquer approach a valuable lesson for Egypt no doubt

 

[MultaniGuy]

Then Egypt should do joint ventures with Pakistan and China.

Make your own missiles then.

 

[The SC]

Then Egypt should do joint ventures with Pakistan and China.

Make your own missiles then.

The Egyptian Rafales have all the missiles they need.. the Scalp is a cruise missile.. a very good addition and it will be delivered to Egypt sooner or later.. France will make sure of that.. since this is a French-US problem.."The French government must seek U.S. authorization"

The US didn't oppose the deal.. but it wants France to follow the US formalities before selling the Scalp missiles..which happen to have US components..

 

[Ceylal]

I guess the Rafale can do nice acrobatic missions in parades now

That is all they are for..just for parade...A very expensive aircraft with a limited flying range, with no teeth or traction...
Frankly, Egypt should have stayed with the Mig21 as their spearhead fighter..

 

[EpiiC]

Even with missiles the Egyptian Air force is useless, historically!

What about KSA air force?

 

[Sine Nomine]

@Gomig-21 I guees Egyptian are falling again in a same pit in which Argentina fell during Falkland war,French Transfer Missile codes to Brits.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...helped-us-win-Falklands-war-by-John-Nott.html
It would have been better if Egypt would have gone for more MIG-35 or Even Chinese Option would have been Better.

The Egyptian Rafales have all the missiles they need.. the Scalp is a cruise missile.. a very good addition and it will be delivered to Egypt sooner or later.. France will make sure of that.. since this is a French-US problem.."The French government must seek U.S. authorization"

The US didn't oppose the deal.. but it wants France to follow the US formalities before selling the Scalp missiles..which happen to have US components..

I am 100% sure,all western armament would be useless because they won't dump Isreal.

 

[Trango Towers]

Without missiles machines are quite useless

the Europeans will learn from this and future programs will not have US components. additionally the world as a whole is learning do not buy american

 

[Gomig-21]

@Gomig-21 I guees Egyptian are falling again in a same pit in which Argentina fell during Falkland war,French Transfer Missile codes to Brits.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...helped-us-win-Falklands-war-by-John-Nott.html
It would have been better if Egypt would have gone for more MIG-35 or Even Chinese Option would have been Better.

It's always a concern, certainly. I'm pretty sure the Egyptian military is quite aware of these possibilities but nonetheless, I think that everyone (except for the few odd fellas) who has a reasonable sense of awareness and objectivity realizes the undeniable capability of the Rafale. So obtaining that aircraft in 3 squadrons is only a good thing, no matter what happens with this SCALP issue. The simple fact that the MICA IR & ER is now part of the EAF (and quite possibly the MICA NG & Meteor) is a huge jump in its BVR combat scenario. Also even though they're in small numbers, when you add them to the Rafale fleet, the Mirage 2K supplements that role to over 50 BVR capable aircraft in the EAF. Then of course you have the 50 MiG-35s with R-77s & R-73s so now we're at over 100 platforms capable of excellent A2A combat abilities. Heck if the Meteor ends up in the EAF that should end the discussion once and for all. We're also hoping to see some of the other Russian BVR missiles come such as the R-27.

And with the way Egypt has been able to operate several different systems for decades, and with the 4th largest fleet of F-16s, you also have at least 100 of those that can play a vital role with AIM-7s, maybe more. We still haven't seen a single BVR engagement of record that had a successful A2A fighter jet kill of anything beyond what, 16 kilometers? So the false notion that air combat is worthless unless it's at 100 km+ range only is a major misconception. And, with the slew of today's EW capabilities and SPECTRA on the Rafale and a mix of the above mentioned platforms, I don't think anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge would think that it would be a cakewalk against an air force like that.

Egyptian F-16 with 4 AIM-9M/Ls and 2 AIM-7 Sparrows can easily supplement the Rafales and MiG-35s for a pretty potent A2A fleet. Layered tactics and Egypt's geography and distance between certain borders makes it perfect for this strategy.

The other thing to consider is that Egypt's military strategy is overwhelmingly defensive-oriented. So their buildup and strategy is mostly for the defense of its land and with the current political environment, war with Israel is not the overriding concern. We have a peace treaty that despite what many here might think, needs to be and IS abided by even Israel itself. So unless they have stupid ideas of messing with us or think that 1967 is a mere possibility in this day and age, they're much better off staying where they belong and things will be just fine. They tried similar tactics to 1967 in 1973 and it didn't work out very well for them. Not to mention the often forgotten results of what Egypt's air defense did to the Israeli Air Force in 1973. The rate of IDF fighter jets falling from the sky was something that hadn't been seen before and since. People conveniently ignore that major factor, I wonder why? And now Egypt's ADS is much more powerful with more S-300VMs being contracted. They're quite aware of the progress the EAF has made just from 1967 to 1973 and since then to now which has basically been the primary reason why they jump up and down screaming bloody murder when any new weapon is being thought of coming to the EAF. The SCALPs are far from the make or break factor for Egypt's military strength. Not worried at all TBH.

 

[Sine Nomine]

It's always a concern, certainly. I'm pretty sure the Egyptian military is quite aware of these possibilities but nonetheless, I think that everyone (except for the few odd fellas) who has a reasonable sense of awareness and objectivity realizes the undeniable capability of the Rafale. So obtaining that aircraft in 3 squadrons is only a good thing, no matter what happens with this SCALP issue. The simple fact that the MICA IR & ER is now part of the EAF (and quite possibly the MICA NG & Meteor) is a huge jump in its BVR combat scenario. Also even though they're in small numbers, when you add them to the Rafale fleet, the Mirage 2K supplements that role to over 50 BVR capable aircraft in the EAF. Then of course you have the 50 MiG-35s with R-77s & R-73s so now we're at over 100 platforms capable of excellent A2A combat abilities. Heck if the Meteor ends up in the EAF that should end the discussion once and for all. We're also hoping to see some of the other Russian BVR missiles come such as the R-27.

And with the way Egypt has been able to operate several different systems for decades, and with the 4th largest fleet of F-16s, you also have at least 100 of those that can play a vital role with AIM-7s, maybe more. We still haven't seen a single BVR engagement of record that had a successful A2A fighter jet kill of anything beyond what, 16 kilometers? So the false notion that air combat is worthless unless it's at 100 km+ range only is a major misconception. And, with the slew of today's EW capabilities and SPECTRA on the Rafale and a mix of the above mentioned platforms, I don't think anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge would think that it would be a cakewalk against an air force like that.

Egyptian F-16 with 4 AIM-9M/Ls and 2 AIM-7 Sparrows can easily supplement the Rafales and MiG-35s for a pretty potent A2A fleet. Layered tactics and Egypt's geography and distance between certain borders makes it perfect for this strategy.

The other thing to consider is that Egypt's military strategy is overwhelmingly defensive-oriented. So their buildup and strategy is mostly for the defense of its land and with the current political environment, war with Israel is not the overriding concern. We have a peace treaty that despite what many here might think, needs to be and IS abided by even Israel itself. So unless they have stupid ideas of messing with us or think that 1967 is a mere possibility in this day and age, they're much better off staying where they belong and things will be just fine. They tried similar tactics to 1967 in 1973 and it didn't work out very well for them. Not to mention the often forgotten results of what Egypt's air defense did to the Israeli Air Force in 1973. The rate of IDF fighter jets falling from the sky was something that hadn't been seen before and since. People conveniently ignore that major factor, I wonder why? And now Egypt's ADS is much more powerful with more S-300VMs being contracted. They're quite aware of the progress the EAF has made just from 1967 to 1973 and since then to now which has basically been the primary reason why they jump up and down screaming bloody murder when any new weapon is being thought of coming to the EAF. The SCALPs are far from the make or break factor for Egypt's military strength. Not worried at all TBH.

I am more concerned about,if these systems of western origion are compromised during conflict,rather then EAF punch.

 

[khansaheeb]

Then Egypt should do joint ventures with Pakistan and China.

Make your own missiles then.

Egypt can't in case they upset the Israelis.