Military still plays bloated role in Pakistan's politics: Hina Rabbani Khar!

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Excuse me Sir, the Army is not supposed to be independent, but be subservient to civil authority by law.

I think what he was attempting to say was that 'politicians have no clue about de-politicised and autonomous (to varying degrees) institutions'.

 

[VCheng]

I think what he was attempting to say was that 'politicians have no clue about de-politicised and autonomous (to varying degrees) institutions'.

Autonomous? No Sir, subservient is the legally applicable word here in context.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No you don't, he was selected by Musharraf. Please don't take what I said personally, I am simply saying as long as Pakistanis love affair with Military continues, we are going nowhere, but down.

There's nothing wrong with 'loving and respecting the military', as long as people also realize that the military is not a substitute for elected representatives.

People who support the military to the point of 'unconstitutional acts' need to realize that the military itself is acknowledging its limitations when it calls upon the elected government to increase the pace of governance and civilian LEA reforms and reconstruction in FATA, Balochistan, Karachi etc.

 

[war&peace]

obviously she will say it. her party is in opposition.

PPPPML-n has never been in opposition since after Mushy's time. Zardari and NS are equally corrupt and it is like deciding between Qaroon and Firoun.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Autonomous? No Sir, subservient is the legally applicable word here in context.

They are not mutually exclusive terms when used conditionally.

The military has to be subservient to the elected government when it comes to decision making on policies related to conflict, deployments etc. In fact, in many ways the Military should ideally have less functional autonomy than local law enforcement. That said, autonomy (from the elected government) in decision making related to the nitty-gritty of training, fighting doctrine, promotions (except for the top 2 or 3), equipment evaluation and recommendations etc is necessary for the military to remain a strong and depoliticized institution. We need autonomy and de-politicization of this kind in local law enforcement as well.

 

[VCheng]

They are not mutually exclusive terms when used conditionally.

The military has to be subservient to the elected government when it comes to decision making on policies related to conflict, deployments etc. In fact, in many ways the Military should ideally have less functional autonomy than local law enforcement. That said, autonomy (from the elected government) in decision making related to the nitty-gritty of training, fighting doctrine, promotions (except for the top 2 or 3), equipment evaluation and recommendations etc is necessary for the military to remain a strong and depoliticized institution. We need autonomy and de-politicization of this kind in local law enforcement as well.

Except we all know that is not how it works in Pakistan.

 

[thesolar65]

No Pakistani members are answering post No.#19.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Except we all know that is not how it works in Pakistan.

It doesn't, and quite frankly it's not because of any 'legal or constitutional loopholes', but because of the mindset of the electorate and the weakness of non-Military (specifically non-Army) institutions.

 

[VCheng]

It doesn't, and quite frankly it's not because of any 'legal or constitutional loopholes', but because of the mindset of the electorate and the weakness of non-Military (specifically non-Army) institutions.

Those bloody civilians!

Seriously though, the basic problem remains the Army's illegal and extra-Constitutional activities, no matter how one tries to spin it.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Have you lately been to Defense Housing, Askari Housing and other elite housing schemes of the Defense Establishment? Try visiting one and let me know if it is the least corrupt institution of Pakistan.

What specifically about the DHA etc do you find to be 'corrupt'?

Exactly. People in Pakistan do not understand that even the judiciary is subservient to civil authority, that is the parliament. If Parliament itself is full of corrupt maniacs, then there is no saving the country, no army, no judiciary.

The judiciary should not be and cannot be subservient to parliament or the elected government - the judiciary is meant to be subservient to the constitution - its function is to interpret the constitution and laws passed by parliament in the light of the constitution. The judiciary should in fact be as independent of the elected parliament as possible.

Those bloody civilians!

Seriously though, the basic problem remains the Army's illegal and extra-Constitutional activities, no matter how one tries to spin it.

Those activities occur because the civilian institutions remain weak and the electorate continues to act in a manner that perpetuates the weakness.

The Army in Turkey didn't just step down one day - it took decades of development and a strong and popular elected government to reduce Army interference in civilian institutions. The elected government in Pakistan needs to do the same - focus on reforms and improved governance over time that require hard and painful decision making with respect to cronyism and biradri politics. There is no miracle cure here.

 

[VCheng]

Those activities occur because the civilian institutions remain weak and the electorate continues to act in a manner that perpetuates the weakness.

That excuse does not work any more Sir. What the Army does to maintain its hold on power is evident. It will not let go anytime soon, no matter what, and never willingly. It simply can't.

The Army in Turkey didn't just step down one day - it took decades of development and a strong and popular elected government to reduce Army interference in civilian institutions. The elected government in Pakistan needs to do the same - focus on reforms and improved governance over time that require hard and painful decision making with respect to cronyism and biradri politics. There is no miracle cure here.

All the more reason for the Army to prevent any real challenges to its power.

 

[NaMaloom]

The

The least corrupt institution in the country does deserve to be respected. The only people who hate the Army are the western oriented slaves who have no idea what an independent force should be. Though I deeply resent the army's role at one point of time-the division of Bengal at the rest of the times it has served as a secular bulwark against the mullahs and terrorist forces.

Lmao! What kind of koolaid does the Pakistan Army feed you? Contradictory statements galore!

The ONLY reason the armed forces appear to be 'least' corrupt is because THERE IS NO TRANSPARENCY with regards to their expenditures so NO ONE can really find out how much corruption is taking place. Its commonsense..

So in your opinion, anyone not singing praises of the army is a 'western oriented slave'? The army that gets all its goodies from the West as well as its marching orders on Waziristan, etc is doing whose bidding?

The ONLY slave mentality on display here is YOURS, a slave to the generals.

 

[my2cents]

It's not a unifying force, its the only force with a big DANDA in its hands.

Are you telling us that Pakistani only behave when you hold DANDA and not otherwise.

 

[Musafir117]

Who do the accountability! We has hell corrupt politicians and PA don't trust them on major internal external issues SO they all the time keeping eyes on them, also another bitter truth we had few bad generals ( few corrupt officers ) but there is no one( institute ) to check them, Mushraff's example is rare one.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That excuse does not work any more Sir. What the Army does to maintain its hold on power is evident. It will not let go anytime soon, no matter what, and never willingly. It simply can't.

Strong institutions will continue to hold onto power because the weak will look towards them for support. In Pakistan's case a large chunk of the population

What is needed is for the civilian institutions to step up, undertake reforms and deliver on domestic governance and win over the public.

All the more reason for the Army to prevent any real challenges to its power.

All the more reason for the elected politicians to implement reforms in civilian institutions and deliver on governance.

The Army isn't stopping the elected government, federal or provincial, from reforming law enforcement, local government and investing in basic infrastructure and services. Blaming the Army for the elected government's own inability to govern or reform is just an excuse to perpetuate corruption and weakness in civilian institutions, which in turn perpetuates Army influence overall.