MCA News & Discussions

[Gabbar]

India set to build Medium Combat Aircraft​

With India’s home-built Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) — the Tejas — flying successfully through its testing process, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has now signed up for an indigenous Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA). Within days, the IAF and a team of aircraft designers will formally set up a joint committee to frame the specifications for India’s own MCA, which will be built largely in Bangalore.

The MCA’s design team will centre on the agencies that have built the LCA: the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA); the National Aeronautics Laboratory (NAL); Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL); and a host of Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) laboratories that will develop futuristic sensors and systems for the MCA.

The director of ADA, Dr PS Subramaniam, confirmed to Business Standard, “The joint committee is likely to be formed within two or three weeks. This committee will finalise what will go into the MCA, as well as the budget and development schedule.”

According to Dr Subramaniam, the programme will aim to develop the MCA and build five to six prototypes at a cost of Rs 5,000 crore. That is approximately the same amount that has gone into the LCA programme.

With this, Indian aeronautical designers will be working in all the fighter categories. In the light fighter category (10-11 tonnes), the Tejas LCA is expected to get operational clearance in 2011; the MCA will be India’s first foray into the medium fighter category (14-15 tonnes); and in the heavy fighter category (20 tonnes plus), currently ruled by the Russian Sukhoi-30MKI, Indian designers plan to partner their Russian counterparts in developing the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA).

Interestingly, the decision to develop an indigenous MCA comes alongside the overseas procurement of 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) for an estimated Rs 50,000 crore. Senior IAF planners point out that the MMRCA procurement is unavoidable for replacing the MiG-29s and Mirage-2000s that will become obsolete while the MCA is still being developed.

By 2020, when the IAF’s current fleet would have been largely phased out, MoD planners forecast a requirement for at least 250 medium fighters. This has raised hopes amongst the MMRCA contenders (the US F/A-18 and F-16, Russia’s Mig-35; the Eurofighter Typhoon; and the Swedish Gripen) that the winner could end up supplying twice as many fighters as the current tender. But a successful Indian MCA programme would cap the MMRCA procurement at 126 fighters. After that, the MCA production will kick in.

The MCA designers plan to pursue technologies superior to anything currently on offer. The ADA director points out, “None of the MMRCA contenders will be state-of-the-art in 2015-2017. But the MCA will; it will incorporate the technologies of the future, which currently feature only on the US Air Force’s F-22 Raptor.”
India’s aeronautical designers see the MCA programme as crucial for taking forward the expertise that has been painstakingly accumulated in the Tejas LCA programme. The IAF is in agreement; and the Rama Rao Committee, set up for restructuring the DRDO, has recommended that programmes must be created to provide continuity for designers.

Says a senior MoD official: “With great difficulty we have built up a team that can design a complete combat aircraft. After a couple of years, when the LCA goes into production, there will be no design work left. Without another aircraft programme to work on, we will lose this team, having attained this level.”

 

[godsavetheworld]

Awesome. Its gonna be a great addon to IAF's upcoming 5th generation fleet.
Here are some details about the less-talked-about wonder.

 

[Contrarian]

India set to build Medium Combat Aircraft

India set to build Medium Combat Aircraft

Ajai Shukla / Bangalore May 02, 2009, 0:11 IST

With this, Indian aeronautical designers will be working in all the fighter categories. In the light fighter category (10-11 tonnes), the Tejas LCA is expected to get operational clearance in 2011; the MCA will be India’s first foray into the medium fighter category (14-15 tonnes); and in the heavy fighter category (20 tonnes plus), currently ruled by the Russian Sukhoi-30MKI, Indian designers plan to partner their Russian counterparts in developing the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA).

That is good. And this time round, any delay in the MCA program will be covered by induction of the MRCA, unlike this time round where the delay in LCA has reduced IAF sqdrns. Any delay in MCA would not have the same effect on IAF. MMRCA would still be filling up the numbers.

India’s aeronautical designers see the MCA programme as crucial for taking forward the expertise that has been painstakingly accumulated in the Tejas LCA programme. The IAF is in agreement; and the Rama Rao Committee, set up for restructuring the DRDO, has recommended that programmes must be created to provide continuity for designers.

Says a senior MoD official: “With great difficulty we have built up a team that can design a complete combat aircraft. After a couple of years, when the LCA goes into production, there will be no design work left. Without another aircraft programme to work on, we will lose this team, having attained this level.”

Im really happy for this news. The Marut saga should not be repeated, the design and development effort would be lost if another program is not taken up after LCA. The industrial and research base setup is now well tuned to deliver products much faster than what it was when LCA was initiated.

And also, the pitfalls during LCA development would also be catered for. DRDO, HAL as well as MoD would have better project planning and management, this time around after the LCA lessons.

 

[white_pawn]

Hope DRDO has gathered enough knowledge from the LCA project and hope there will be no delay in the time line predicted by them. LCA is kind of moral boster for DRDO. Now I think DRDO is handling two projects in aircraft making MCA & FGFA (Russain version is of single seater and India's Twin Seater). It would really be exciting to see how the things pregress.

 

[duhastmish]

MCA will be a cheaper compared to pak-fa for sure and will be adance too, but i think problems will be .

1. stealth technology
2. we dont have a engine yet but hopefully kaveri will be reayd by then.
3. we need a strong will and a open system where result have deadlines. or else face the consequences.
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more over fifth genration fighter have say 40% of jet rest 60% are other technology such as radar and its weapon , and other aviation .

 

[white_pawn]

Problems In "Kaveri"

Little information has been publicly released to date concerning the nature of the "Kaveri"'s technical challenges, but it is known that the "Kaveri" has had a tendency to "throw" turbine blades, which required securing blades from SNECMA (as well as digital engine control systems).

Continuing development snags with the "Kaveri" resulted in the 2003 decision to procure the uprated F404-GE-IN20 engine for the eight pre-production Limited Series Production (LSP) aircraft and two naval prototypes. The ADA awarded General Electric a US$105 million contract in February 2004 for development engineering and production of 17 F404-IN20 engines, delivery of which is to begin in 2006.

In mid-2004, the "Kaveri" failed its high-altitude tests in Russia, ending the last hopes of introducing it with the first production "Tejas" aircraft. [Since India does not possess suitable aircraft, the high-altitude testing of the "Kaveri" is contracted to Russia, which uses a Tu-16 bomber for the purpose. Another "Kaveri" engine was delivered to Russia for further flight testing from June to September 2006, but on an Il-76 testbed instead of a Tu-16.] This unfortunate development led the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) to order 40 more IN20 engines in 2005 for the first 20 production aircraft, and to openly appeal for international participation in completing development of the "Kaveri". At that time, the DRDO had hoped to have the "Kaveri" engine ready for use on the "Tejas" by 2009-10.

"Current status"

The Kaveri is still in development, and reports indicate that it will be ready to fly by 2009. Testing and certification for use on the Tejas is expected to take some more time after that. Till then, the first two squadrons of Tejas will be powered by the GE404 engine.

Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister M Natarajan said nearly 90 to 93 per cent of the expected performance had been realised and the government had recently floated an expression of interest to seek partners to move the programme further.

DRDO has reportedly been able to develop single crystal blades, which represent a major technological achievement for engine development. Production and integrating this technology into the engine is expected to take some more time.

Kaveri has already undergone 1,700 hours of tests and has been sent twice to Russia to undergo high-altitude tests for which India has no facility. The engine is also being tested to power the next generation of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles.

In September 2008, it was announced that the Kaveri would not be ready in time for the Tejas, and that an in-production powerplant would have to selected. Development of the Kaveri by the GRTE would continue for other future applications.

GTRE GTX-35VS Kaveri

Lets hope every things go well as this engine is going to be used for MCA now. Agree with the 3rd point of Gabbar, its should be implimented will be better.

 

[godsavetheworld]

MCA will be a cheaper compared to pak-fa for sure and will be adance too, but i think problems will be .

1. stealth technology
.

Thats preciseely the first objective of ADA. It wont be called a fifth generation if it doesnt have stealth. DRDO could make the worlds most advanced BMD, cruise missile, I'm confident they will pull this off.

Stealth is not a whole new ball game for India. All our modified aircrafts especially the MKI have some degree of stealth in it. Stealth can be in many forms, structure (F-22), radar deflector, low heat signature etc.

2. we dont have a engine yet but hopefully kaveri will be reayd by then.

I agree, we might need a slightly better engine, but Kaveri isnt all that bad


LCA was an important project for us. It began in 1980s and continued with R&D till 2001. These 20 years have seen aircrafts go from 3rd gen to 5th gen. What LCA gave us is a 'prithvi' for India's aeronautical development. With all that experience of achieving another milestone, MCA will be sure shot no doubt.

 

[Screaming Skull]

Hey guys can we make this the official MCA discussion thread? Since, there is no dedicated thread for the MCA like the LCA, news and opinions regarding the MCA will be littered all over the forum.

or even better, can we merge all the threads relating to PAK FA/FGFA and MCA and make it a sticky one and call it "IAF 5th generation fighter" or something?

What say members??

 

[duhastmish]

Dude lca - was delayed for sure - for years but for past few years i think we should be happy with the pace of project. its going at good speed.
Surely we need to go a notch up .

as for stealth - India is still not in line of runners for - stealth technology yet, which we can say for many other aviation purposes. india if not leading is still in the race for many.
-As for showing confidence in drdo - i think we dont really have much of choice do we ? lol
but i think these guys can pull it but there has to have a cap on them - through public forum such as media - to make sure they give us result on time. if they cant - there is too bloody much of talent in our country.
so give htese guys a boot on behind and get someone else in line , for the replacement.
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We also need private firm to get involved with research and development in aviation industry. which will give a big boost to our defence.
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we also need a good support and detailed requirement from Indian AIR FORCE! they should not screww up the mca like lca and kaveri , they should tell drdo what thy want after - x number of years.
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rest we need a good instrospection of drdo by drdo itself to not commit same mistakes they commited in previous project i.e lca.
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[heartwinlion]

Can anybody tell me what is thrust of engine drdo looking for mca? coze as for my knowledge Kaveri has dry thrust 52kn and A/B 82kn which is not suit for our lca that is why we are looking for foreign engine. Did we are capable for this field. And what about for radar we did not create a MMR(PESA) for lca how we can create AESA also weapon ????

 

[Screaming Skull]

Interesting Video

 

[godsavetheworld]

Interesting Video

GfrAMveMsUI[/media] - MCA: Medium Combat Aircraft

This is not the correct design of the MCA(video info explains so). Compare it with the wind tunnel design pictures I have posted in the above posts.

 

[Screaming Skull]

This is not the correct design of the MCA(video info explains so). Compare it with the wind tunnel design pictures I have posted in the above posts.

This video was released long before AI-09, where the present wind tunnel model was displayed. Anyway, the MCA is still in the design stages and hence the wind tunnel model displayed in AI-09 too can't be assumed to be the final version.

 

[ANDUBYLL]

Hold your horses !
The LCA-Tejas is still not operational yet! crores of rupees have been spent and still there is no light at the end of the tunnel !
Will the Indian air force, the main buyer actually buy the LCA or go for some foreign birds where they can get some kickbacks !
All this talk about MCA is crap unless and until , LCA is inducted in large numbers and become good enough to be a mainstay of the Indian air forces !
If not, I suspect, the air force will dilly dally, change parameters and do whatever it takes to ensure that the MCA is a failure !

 

[Gabbar]

Hold your horses !
The LCA-Tejas is still not operational yet! crores of rupees have been spent and still there is no light at the end of the tunnel !
Will the Indian air force, the main buyer actually buy the LCA or go for some foreign birds where they can get some kickbacks !
All this talk about MCA is crap unless and until , LCA is inducted in large numbers and become good enough to be a mainstay of the Indian air forces !
If not, I suspect, the air force will dilly dally, change parameters and do whatever it takes to ensure that the MCA is a failure !

LCA will be ooperational. Over 1000 flight tests have been done and there are few glitches but they will sort it out. IAF will be main buyer for nowbut slowly you will see LCA being offered African or south American countries. I agree with you that LCA has to be inducted in large numbers and I think they will because MIG-21 will be replaced with LCA if made operational on time. If DRDO took about 8-10 years to develop this MCA, parameters will change and it's not IAF's fault because that's how this industry works. After every 8-10 years requirments and technology changes. DRDO should not take more than 5 years to develop this.