Manned vs Unmanned Planes

[shabzy]

In today's day of age with progression and advances in technology, I wanted to know whether countries like Pakistan are barking up the wrong tree in terms of investments in 4th generation fighter aircraft. Shouldn't we be investing a larger piece of the budgetary pie on unmanned aerial vehicles and better ground defenses instead of playing catch up in a field that we are well behind?

My own personal view is that pilot requirements look as if will be a thing of the past. It would be good to see the more experienced members point of view in this regard.

 

[OrionHunter]

You mean future air wars with UCAVs? The operational drivers haven’t been there to force development. (And there are organizational drivers that have worked against them.) In the future UCAVs would be able to fight air-to-air using beyond-visual-range missiles cued by advanced data fusion from on-board and off-board sensors. That suggests the pilot could be sitting remotely.

The Russians now think the next fighter generation will probably be unmanned, while America and Israel are undertaking research. Even so, an unmanned fighter is unlikely to directly emulate a manned fighter but rather undertake air-to-air and air-to-ground roles in new and different ways. Already, the USN is thinking about using its new UCLASS as a robot wingman.

In the next decade, air-to-ground will increasingly be the province of UCAVs. Air-to-air may have to wait another decade or so, unless a pressing need suddenly arises.

So yes! The future of air warfare lies in the maximum employment of UCAVs, but in conjunction with conventional platforms.

Controlling a UCAV from a remote control suite with full situational awareness, something like this ....

 

[SOHEIL]

Optional

 

[shabzy]

You mean future air wars with UCAVs? The operational drivers haven’t been there to force development. (And there are organizational drivers that have worked against them.) In the future UCAVs would be able to fight air-to-air using beyond-visual-range missiles cued by advanced data fusion from on-board and off-board sensors. That suggests the pilot could be sitting remotely.

The Russians now think the next fighter generation will probably be unmanned, while America and Israel are undertaking research. Even so, an unmanned fighter is unlikely to directly emulate a manned fighter but rather undertake air-to-air and air-to-ground roles in new and different ways. Already, the USN is thinking about using its new UCLASS as a robot wingman.

In the next decade, air-to-ground will increasingly be the province of UCAVs. Air-to-air may have to wait another decade or so, unless a pressing need suddenly arises.

So yes! The future of air warfare lies in the maximum employment of UCAVs, but in conjunction with conventional platforms.

Exactly...........

Do you think that investing in current fighter aircraft technology would be more advantageous than investing in possible futuristic aerial warfare tech like unmanned units, for this does look like the way forward.

Secondly do you think that Iran is now focusing on unmanned tech for their AF.

 

[OrionHunter]

Exactly...........

Do you think that investing in current fighter aircraft technology would be more advantageous than investing in possible futuristic aerial warfare tech like unmanned units, for this does look like the way forward.

Secondly do you think that Iran is now focusing on unmanned tech for their AF.

I think UCAVs would be far more cost effective whilst keeping pilots out of harms way. It costs a few million dollars to train a fighter pilot! You can't afford to lose him in battle!

Here's Iran's advanced UAV in the background...Not sure if it can be armed though.

 

[shabzy]

I think UCAVs would be far more cost effective whilst keeping pilots out of harms way. It costs a few million dollars to train a fighter pilot! You can't afford to lose him in battle!

Here's Iran's advanced UAV in the background...Not sure if it can be armed though.

They seem to be more focused on unmanned than in conventional fighter aircraft program...

 

[C130]

I think UCAVs would be far more cost effective whilst keeping pilots out of harms way. It costs a few million dollars to train a fighter pilot! You can't afford to lose him in battle!

Here's Iran's advanced UAV in the background...Not sure if it can be armed though.

lol, here's hoping they aren't made of of plastic

 

[The SC]

British Taranis Stealth UCAV is Expanding Flight Envelope over Australia

• Drones & Robotics

Feb 16, 2014

Last week the UK Ministry of Defence (MOD) and BAE Systems confirmed that the Taranis stealthy Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle (UCAV) demonstrator surpassed all expectations during its first flight trials last year. Since the first flight, conducted August 10th, 2013 the UCAV has been expanding the flight envelope in preparation for the follow-on operational demonstration phase.

A side view of the Taranis UCAV in flight. Photo: BAE Systems/MOD

Taranis is designed to demonstrate the UK’s ability to create an unmanned air system which, under the control of a human operator, is capable of undertaking sustained surveillance, marking targets, gathering intelligence, deterring adversaries and carrying out strikes in hostile territory.

Taranis made its maiden flight at the Woomera test range in South Australia on Saturday 10th August 2013, under the command of BAE Systems’ test pilot Bob Fraser. The first flight lasted only 15 minutes, in which the demonstrator aircraft took off, rotation, ‘climb-out’ and returned for landing. In a number of follow-on flights that took place last year, Taranis extended flight duration to one hour, operating at a variety of altitudes and speeds, as part of the envelope testing.

The serrated contour of the weapon’s bay is clearly seen in this photo, where the stealthy Taranis shows its belly and underwing area on a banking turn. Photo: BAE Systems, UK MOD.

“The findings from the aircraft’s flight prove that the UK has developed a significant lead in understanding unmanned aircraft which could strike with precision over a long range whilst remaining undetected.” BAE Sources said, indicating the technological advances made through Taranis will also help the UK MOD and Royal Air Force make decisions on the future mix of manned and unmanned fast jet aircraft and how they will operate together in a safe and effective manner for the UK’s defences. The MOD is considering a yet undefined ‘Future Combat Air System ‘FCAS’ – possibly a UCAV to replace the Eurofighter Typhoon in RAF service as the Typhoon reaches retirement by 2030. As Defense-Update reported two weeks ago, the UK and France announced an agreement to explore collaborate in the development of such platform, at an investment of £120 million. The two countries are expected to sign a formal memorandum of understanding (MOU) to launch the two-year program in July 2014.

“The first flight of Taranis represents a major landmark for UK aviation. The demonstrator is the most advanced air system ever conceived, designed and built in the UK. Nigel Whitehead, Group Managing Director of BAE Systems said, commenting on the Taranis flight announcement, “It truly represents an evolution of everything that has come before it. This milestone confirms the UK’s leading position as a centre for engineering excellence and innovation.”

Taranis awaiting takeoff at Woomera Test Range, South Australia. Photo: BAE Systems/UK MOD

Costing £185 million ($300 million) and funded jointly by the UK MOD and UK industry, the Taranis demonstrator aircraft was formally unveiled in July 2010. The Taranis demonstrator is the result of 1,500,000 man hours of work by the UK’s leading scientists, aerodynamicists and systems engineers from 250 UK companies, but only few scientists and engineers have ever been given full access to the top secret aircraft.

About the size of a BAE Systems Hawk aircraft – Taranis has been designed and built by BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, the Systems division of GE Aviation (formerly Smiths Aerospace) and QinetiQ working alongside UK MOD military staff and scientists. In addition to prime contracting the project, BAE Systems led on many elements of the Taranis technology demonstrator, including the low observability, systems integration, control infrastructure and full autonomy elements (in partnership with QinetiQ).

Ground testing commenced later in 2010 at BAE Systems’ military aircraft factory in Warton, Lancashire in the UK, followed by a comprehensive and highly detailed programme of pre-first flight milestones including unmanned pilot training, radar cross section measurements, ground station system integration. Taxi trials began in April 2013 taxi trials on the runway at Warton. Following those tests the aircraft and its ground station were shipped to Australia where it was re-assembled and prepared for further tests. The aircraft resumed high speed taxi tests in July 2013 before its maiden flight in August.

British Taranis Stealth UCAV is Expanding Flight Envelope over Australia | Defense Update:

 

[giger]

lol, here's hoping they aren't made of of plastic

good idea making small uav from plastic no radar effect cheap and light .it can be made by 3d printers

 

[applesauce]

good idea making small uav from plastic no radar effect cheap and light .it can be made by 3d printers

then the bits on the inside would be very visible,resulting in a rcs possible much worst than one with aluminium skin.

 

[giger]

then the bits on the inside would be very visible,resulting in a rcs possible much worst than one with aluminium skin.

come on man they are made by plastic too why you are disappointed like that

 

[applesauce]

come on man they are made by plastic too why you are disappointed like that

lol, plastic circuits? plastic combustion chambers? plastic radar/sensors?

i dont think that would work out very well. lol

 

[giger]

that was some

lol, plastic circuits? plastic combustion chambers? plastic radar/sensors?

i dont think that would work out very well. lol

that was fun

about future when there is a pilot it's difficult risking at dangerous missions unmanned has no risk just losing a cheap plane . Until safer plane witch can save pilot against missiles unmanned is better .

 

[The SC]

Not plastic, but carbon fiber that can hide the inside components while being stealth themselves.

 

[applesauce]

that was some


that was fun

about future when there is a pilot it's difficult risking at dangerous missions unmanned has no risk just losing a cheap plane . Until safer plane witch can save pilot against missiles unmanned is better .

they are already doing that, like the american drones in iran and stuff

Not plastic, but carbon fiber that can hide the inside components while being stealth themselves.

then why wouldnt you just coat the actually skin of the plane....like you know.......what they are already doing with 5th gens and drones..