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'Make in India' challenge for Kamov helicopter

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'Make in India' challenge for Kamov helicopter | Business Standard News

After Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Moscow last month yielded an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) on supplying the Kamov-226T light helicopter to India's military, both sides are struggling to meet the challenging 'Make in India' requirement of building 50 per cent of the helicopter in India.

Neither side is willing to speak on the record, but Russian sources tell Business Standard that Moscow has accepted responsibility only for indigenising Russian components, which would fall short of the indigenisation level required.

These sources say the IGA requires New Delhi to negotiate separately with third country vendors for indigenising their components and systems, which make up about two-third of the Kamov-226T. Russian Helicopters, which has developed the Kamov-226T, has sourced its twin engines - which constitute one-third of the chopper's cost - from French company, Turbomeca. Other key systems and avionics have been sourced from the global market.

HAL sources confirm: "We will have to work with third-country suppliers and co-co-opt them into the indigenization effort to meet the "Make in India" goals.

Adding to the difficulty, the IGA permits Russian Helicopters to deliver the first 60 helicopters in flyaway condition.

These would be assembled entirely in Russia, with little scope for indigenisation. That would also be the case with the next 40 or so helicopters, shipped as kits from Russia to be assembled in India.

That leaves just 100 helicopters for meeting the 50 per cent 'Make in India' goals over the entire fleet of 200.

HAL, along with other Indian manufacturers, is negotiating with third-party suppliers outside Russia to build Kamov-226T components and systems in India. Bharat Forge is understood to be in talks with Turbomeca to part-build the Kamov-226T's engines in India.

Russian sources say the Kamov-226T indigenisation has been complicated by an unusually detailed IGA. Traditionally, IGAs consist only of broad statements of intent.

This IGA, unprecedentedly, mandates an Indo-Russian joint venture for building the helicopter, with a 50.5 per cent stake for HAL, and a 49.5 per cent stake for Russian Helicopters. HAL is permitted to co-opt an Indian vendor with part of its stake.

According to Russian sources closely involved in negotiating this IGA, "It forms a new model of cooperation between India and Russia, developed specifically for the Kamov-226T.

The IGA specifies a nine-year period for delivering 200 Kamov-226T helicopters, which begins from the signature of the contract. That amounts to an unambitious 22 helicopters a year.

The defence ministry believes that India's military, and civilian users like ONGC, Pawan Hans and corporates, will require about 600 new light helicopters when the venerable Chetak/Cheetah fleet is phased out. But the Kamov-226T will have to compete for this market with HAL's new Light Utility Helicopter (LUH), which is ready to make its first flight.

Business Standard found, during a recent visit to HAL, that the LUH is on track to make its first flight by February. According to HAL projections, the LUH would complete flight certification by mid-2017 and enter production by the year-end.

The defence ministry has assured HAL it will buy about 200 LUH. With the IGA assuring Russian Helicopters that India would buy 200 choppers, the bulk of the order for the remaining 200 would fall to whichever manufacturer delivers 200 helicopters first.

With HAL's helicopter close to its first flight, planning has begun for production. On January 3, the prime minster laid the foundation stone for HAL's new facility in Tumkur, where the LUH would be built. Modi declared that the first helicopter built there would take flight by 2018.
 
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'Make in India' challenge for Kamov helicopter | Business Standard News

After Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Moscow last month yielded an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) on supplying the Kamov-226T light helicopter to India's military, both sides are struggling to meet the challenging 'Make in India' requirement of building 50 per cent of the helicopter in India.

Neither side is willing to speak on the record, but Russian sources tell Business Standard that Moscow has accepted responsibility only for indigenising Russian components, which would fall short of the indigenisation level required.

These sources say the IGA requires New Delhi to negotiate separately with third country vendors for indigenising their components and systems, which make up about two-third of the Kamov-226T. Russian Helicopters, which has developed the Kamov-226T, has sourced its twin engines - which constitute one-third of the chopper's cost - from French company, Turbomeca. Other key systems and avionics have been sourced from the global market.

HAL sources confirm: "We will have to work with third-country suppliers and co-co-opt them into the indigenization effort to meet the "Make in India" goals.

Adding to the difficulty, the IGA permits Russian Helicopters to deliver the first 60 helicopters in flyaway condition.

These would be assembled entirely in Russia, with little scope for indigenisation. That would also be the case with the next 40 or so helicopters, shipped as kits from Russia to be assembled in India.

That leaves just 100 helicopters for meeting the 50 per cent 'Make in India' goals over the entire fleet of 200.

HAL, along with other Indian manufacturers, is negotiating with third-party suppliers outside Russia to build Kamov-226T components and systems in India. Bharat Forge is understood to be in talks with Turbomeca to part-build the Kamov-226T's engines in India.

Russian sources say the Kamov-226T indigenisation has been complicated by an unusually detailed IGA. Traditionally, IGAs consist only of broad statements of intent.

This IGA, unprecedentedly, mandates an Indo-Russian joint venture for building the helicopter, with a 50.5 per cent stake for HAL, and a 49.5 per cent stake for Russian Helicopters. HAL is permitted to co-opt an Indian vendor with part of its stake.

According to Russian sources closely involved in negotiating this IGA, "It forms a new model of cooperation between India and Russia, developed specifically for the Kamov-226T.

The IGA specifies a nine-year period for delivering 200 Kamov-226T helicopters, which begins from the signature of the contract. That amounts to an unambitious 22 helicopters a year.

The defence ministry believes that India's military, and civilian users like ONGC, Pawan Hans and corporates, will require about 600 new light helicopters when the venerable Chetak/Cheetah fleet is phased out. But the Kamov-226T will have to compete for this market with HAL's new Light Utility Helicopter (LUH), which is ready to make its first flight.

Business Standard found, during a recent visit to HAL, that the LUH is on track to make its first flight by February. According to HAL projections, the LUH would complete flight certification by mid-2017 and enter production by the year-end.

The defence ministry has assured HAL it will buy about 200 LUH. With the IGA assuring Russian Helicopters that India would buy 200 choppers, the bulk of the order for the remaining 200 would fall to whichever manufacturer delivers 200 helicopters first.

With HAL's helicopter close to its first flight, planning has begun for production. On January 3, the prime minster laid the foundation stone for HAL's new facility in Tumkur, where the LUH would be built. Modi declared that the first helicopter built there would take flight by 2018.
This is just common sense- if the KA-226T has a high level of third party content then onbviosuly Russia won't be able to agree to the 50% Indian content of these sub-components and HAL/India will have to create thirst party agreements with multiple entities.

Did no one in the GoI/MoD/PMO think of this before they selected the Ka-226T? @PARIKRAMA
 
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'Make in India' challenge for Kamov helicopter | Business Standard News

After Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Moscow last month yielded an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) on supplying the Kamov-226T light helicopter to India's military, both sides are struggling to meet the challenging 'Make in India' requirement of building 50 per cent of the helicopter in India.

Neither side is willing to speak on the record, but Russian sources tell Business Standard that Moscow has accepted responsibility only for indigenising Russian components, which would fall short of the indigenisation level required.

These sources say the IGA requires New Delhi to negotiate separately with third country vendors for indigenising their components and systems, which make up about two-third of the Kamov-226T. Russian Helicopters, which has developed the Kamov-226T, has sourced its twin engines - which constitute one-third of the chopper's cost - from French company, Turbomeca. Other key systems and avionics have been sourced from the global market.

HAL sources confirm: "We will have to work with third-country suppliers and co-co-opt them into the indigenization effort to meet the "Make in India" goals.

Adding to the difficulty, the IGA permits Russian Helicopters to deliver the first 60 helicopters in flyaway condition.

These would be assembled entirely in Russia, with little scope for indigenisation. That would also be the case with the next 40 or so helicopters, shipped as kits from Russia to be assembled in India.

That leaves just 100 helicopters for meeting the 50 per cent 'Make in India' goals over the entire fleet of 200.

HAL, along with other Indian manufacturers, is negotiating with third-party suppliers outside Russia to build Kamov-226T components and systems in India. Bharat Forge is understood to be in talks with Turbomeca to part-build the Kamov-226T's engines in India.

Russian sources say the Kamov-226T indigenisation has been complicated by an unusually detailed IGA. Traditionally, IGAs consist only of broad statements of intent.

This IGA, unprecedentedly, mandates an Indo-Russian joint venture for building the helicopter, with a 50.5 per cent stake for HAL, and a 49.5 per cent stake for Russian Helicopters. HAL is permitted to co-opt an Indian vendor with part of its stake.

According to Russian sources closely involved in negotiating this IGA, "It forms a new model of cooperation between India and Russia, developed specifically for the Kamov-226T.

The IGA specifies a nine-year period for delivering 200 Kamov-226T helicopters, which begins from the signature of the contract. That amounts to an unambitious 22 helicopters a year.

The defence ministry believes that India's military, and civilian users like ONGC, Pawan Hans and corporates, will require about 600 new light helicopters when the venerable Chetak/Cheetah fleet is phased out. But the Kamov-226T will have to compete for this market with HAL's new Light Utility Helicopter (LUH), which is ready to make its first flight.

Business Standard found, during a recent visit to HAL, that the LUH is on track to make its first flight by February. According to HAL projections, the LUH would complete flight certification by mid-2017 and enter production by the year-end.

The defence ministry has assured HAL it will buy about 200 LUH. With the IGA assuring Russian Helicopters that India would buy 200 choppers, the bulk of the order for the remaining 200 would fall to whichever manufacturer delivers 200 helicopters first.

With HAL's helicopter close to its first flight, planning has begun for production. On January 3, the prime minster laid the foundation stone for HAL's new facility in Tumkur, where the LUH would be built. Modi declared that the first helicopter built there would take flight by 2018.

There is nothing to worry over this news as this is a case with almost all foreign procurement if they need to be indigenised. The news makes it sensational which is otherwise not so.
 
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unless there are assurance from India, that order size is going to grow beyond 200, it looks difficult, why somebody would want to collaborate for 100 odd choppers. this production run would end max in 5 years and it is unlikely anyone would be interested for such short duration work.
 
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It was a 800 Million USD order
Why the hell did MOD agree for a 50% offset clause
At least the army will get 100 in fly away condition from Russia and they will be able to replace 6 of the 8 Sqds of Chetak/cheetah in service with them
Army also has 4 Sqds of Cheetah Helis which are upgraded version of Cheetah Heli with Turbomecca Engine and inducted between 2004-12
These will remain operational till 2030
 
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This is just common sense- if the KA-226T has a high level of third party content then onbviosuly Russia won't be able to agree to the 50% Indian content of these sub-components and HAL/India will have to create thirst party agreements with multiple entities.

Did no one in the GoI/MoD/PMO think of this before they selected the Ka-226T? @PARIKRAMA


There are 2 things..
Firstly the third party vendor tie up for 100 odd helos after deducting first 60 flyaway and next 40 in kits means its a tough and limited scope for the vendors also to open up a local shop and benefit from the target of 50% indigenization.
See these lines
"We will have to work with third-country suppliers and co-co-opt them into the indigenization effort to meet the "Make in India" goals
HAL, along with other Indian manufacturers, is negotiating with third-party suppliers outside Russia to build Kamov-226T components and systems in India. Bharat Forge is understood to be in talks with Turbomeca to part-build the Kamov-226T's engines in India.


As @anant_s said if the order size is not more than 100 more like triple of that size, the attraction falls down considerably.

Secondly, @Abingdonboy you have to understand HAL tactics. The report also says one more line
The defence ministry has assured HAL it will buy about 200 LUH. With the IGA assuring Russian Helicopters that India would buy 200 choppers, the bulk of the order for the remaining 200 would fall to whichever manufacturer delivers 200 helicopters first.

With HAL's helicopter close to its first flight, planning has begun for production. On January 3, the prime minster laid the foundation stone for HAL's new facility in Tumkur, where the LUH would be built. Modi declared that the first helicopter built there would take flight by 2018.


In simple words, if this 50% indigenization is successfully done then with assured orders beyond 100 to benefit third party suppliers setting shop, the LUH plan for HAL goes kaput. if Kamov order gets increased by 100 more, LUH order decreases by 100. On top Kamov order assembly line may be much quicker to start as compared to HAL LUH line. Moreover, since its Indo-Russian joint initiative, preference will be given to kamov to have geo political clout with Moscow and build on the goodwill..

So this is nothing but
dirty-politics.jpg
by HAL to safeguard LUH from reduced orders by hook or by crook..
 
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It does not make Ethical sense to give production of Kamov and LUH to HAL. HAL naturally will try to promote its own copter and it will put its hand downs in case of problems with Kamov instead of resolving it actively.

It creates conflict of interest. TATA can be asked to do.
 
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It does not make Ethical sense to give production of Kamov and LUH to HAL. HAL naturally will try to promote its own copter and it will put its hand downs in case of problems with Kamov instead of resolving it actively.

It creates conflict of interest. TATA can be asked to do.

Hal got it from reliance ,

I get it now , reliance found it not much profitable for all the effort.
Could make only 100. So let it go.
 
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Hal got it from reliance ,

I get it now , reliance found it not much profitable for all the effort.
Could make only 100. So let it go.

The article does mention that India has 600 Chetaks need to replaced, many with private organisations. The confidence is needed to compete with LUH and even foreign markets.
 
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