"Made in China" vs "Make in India": a Glimpse from Their Auto Industries

[empirefighter]

I think I am not clear enough.

Those Chinese for chemical compounds are for pronunciation, not for writing generally.
Does it make sense?
How to read NaHCO3 in English i have no idea. But every Chinese will read it as 碳酸氢钠。

Every Chinese can easily read any science paper. I have zero knwoalage on quantum science. If given an english paper on that, it does not make sense to me at all. But once translated into Chinese, I can gaspe 95% meaning. The bar to access a new field is so low once terms are in Chinese.

氡Rn
What the f**k is 氡 I have no idea.
But I know from this character the moment I see it, it is a sort of gas, and it is pronounced in Chinese as Dong.
View attachment 439103

Very proud of our character system, highly efficient. Foreigners never understand that point, Indian people think they have better english than us, so they have more advantages. To be honest, from our viewpoint, it is a disadvantage, if a big country as India cannot study science using its own language, that means Indian students have to spend lot of time studying english before studying science. But foreigners including Indian people are hard to understand this, and this writing system is beyond their imagination, so it is a waste of time to explain.

 

[Cybernetics]

I think I am not clear enough.

Those Chinese for chemical compounds are for pronunciation, not for writing generally.
Does it make sense?
How to read NaHCO3 in English i have no idea. But every Chinese will read it as 碳酸氢钠。

Every Chinese can easily read any science paper. I have zero knwoalage on quantum science. If given an english paper on that, it does not make sense to me at all. But once translated into Chinese, I can gaspe 95% meaning. The bar to access a new field is so low once terms are in Chinese.

氡Rn
What the f**k is 氡 I have no idea.
But I know from this character the moment I see it, it is a sort of gas, and it is pronounced in Chinese as Dong.
View attachment 439103

I love how with 汉字Chinese characters I can tell what base property the element has. Those containing 钅is metallic, 气 is gaseous, etc if you remember the characters you can already categorise the elements. That's the wonder of Hanzi. I can understand the meaning of many unknown words based on its composition. The characters contain a lot of useful information that helps in understanding concepts.

 

[AndrewJin]

This is good.

In fact do you know the ultranationalists and Hindu nationalists actually admire China, Korea and Japan for their ability to preserve their language.

I follow some ultranationalists, and most of the time they are bad mouthing China, except when it comes to the use of Hindi and indigenous culture.

Follow a person on twitter called Sankrant Sanu.

He in fact calls everyone preferring to speak English in India as a slave.

You are right about the China part.
Koreans and Japanese used to be very good at translating or creating scientific terms based on Chinese roots. But now they have abandoned that tradition. Now for ALL new terms, they simply directly translate according to pronunciation, hence they call "computer" pretty much the same pronunciation as in English. But we call it as "电脑“ （dian nao, dian for electricity, nao for brain). In China, we have Chinese language committee comprised of Chinese language experts and experts from different fields to negotiate, examine and approve the Chinese terms for new ideas and new words.

Compare Japanese and Chinese.
Note the first few in Japanese, mostly in Chinese characters.
All the following are comprised of Japanese letters.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

I love how with 汉字Chinese characters I can tell what base property the element has. Those containing 钅is metallic, 气 is gaseous, etc if you remember the characters you can already categorise the elements. That's the wonder of Hanzi. I can understand the meaning of many unknown words based on its composition. The characters contain a lot of useful information that helps in understanding concepts.

That may be very shallow understanding. Because when you are actually talking about any actual use of these metals in scientific or engineering calculations, people don't need to do any effort to actually recall these elements.

In fact we read about them so much and so often, that we have developed a whole personality for each element.

No two elements are the same. Some superfluously same elements can have very different properties in certain domains.

You are right about the China part.
Koreans and Japanese used to be very good at translating or creating scientific terms based on Chinese roots. But now they have abandoned that tradition. Now for ALL new terms, they simply directly translate according to pronunciation, hence they call "computer" pretty much the same pronunciation as in English. But we call it as "电脑“ （dian nao, dian for electricity, nao for brain). In China, we have Chinese language committee comprised of Chinese language experts and experts from different fields to negotiate, examine and approve the Chinese terms for new ideas and new words.

Compare Japanese and Chinese.
Note the first few in Japanese, mostly in Chinese characters.
All the following are comprised of Japanese letters.

As far as I know, it was the Japanese who first coined the terms for electricity and computer etc. for these things in Kanji, and the Chinese borrowed them than.

So it is surprising for me to hear that they don't use the Kanji that they themselves invented.

Also, what are elements like dysprosium, germanium, europium, translated to in Chinese. Are their Chinese names totally new, or are they the Chinese translation of these words in a phonetic manner?

 

[Gurjot.S]

Auto world is dominated by Korean,japanese,german brands. Chinese hardly have any presence in this area.

 

[AndrewJin]

I love how with 汉字Chinese characters I can tell what base property the element has. Those containing 钅is metallic, 气 is gaseous, etc if you remember the characters you can already categorise the elements. That's the wonder of Hanzi. I can understand the meaning of many unknown words based on its composition. The characters contain a lot of useful information that helps in understanding concepts.

The most brilliant example is

氕、氘和氚（1H、2H、3H）

The chemist who invented these three new Chinese characters is simply brilliant.
In terms of pronunciation, just read it without looking up in the dictionary.
In terms of meaning, 1, 2, 3!



@Bussard Ramjet Pls compare (retina as in Chinese shi wang mo, shi for "see", "wang mo" for membrane)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/视网膜


The english version of this term gives me ZERO idea of what the f**k it is.
But I can read the entire Chinese version, it turns out it is very interesting!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/希格斯玻色子

That may be very shallow understanding. Because when you are actually talking about any actual use of these metals in scientific or engineering calculations, people don't need to do any effort to actually recall these elements.

In fact we read about them so much and so often, that we have developed a whole personality for each element.

No two elements are the same. Some superfluously same elements can have very different properties in certain domains.




As far as I know, it was the Japanese who first coined the terms for electricity and computer etc. for these things in Kanji, and the Chinese borrowed them than.

So it is surprising for me to hear that they don't use the Kanji that they themselves invented.

Also, what are elements like dysprosium, germanium, europium, translated to in Chinese. Are their Chinese names totally new, or are they the Chinese translation of these words in a phonetic manner?

Modern Chinese do absorb lots of Chinese words invented in Japan.
But, very importantly, they picked up roots and the way the word was made from ancient Chinese books.
For example, Physics, 物理 （both Japanese and Chinese).
It literally means the reason of things
It's a new word, but it is also an old word from a Chinese essay 2000 years ago.
It used to mean the reasoning of everything in the world, but now, it is narrowed down to just mean this subject.

To translate new terms into Chinese words (including Japanese words based on Chinese), you need excellent knowledge of Chinese as an ancient language and as literature.

One century ago, Japanese had very good knowledge on that, now they have lost it.

dysprosium, germanium, europium

Create new characters with similar pronunciation (just one syllable) but in the same time one part indicates it is metal, solid or gas.

 

[AndrewJin]

That may be very shallow understanding. Because when you are actually talking about any actual use of these metals in scientific or engineering calculations, people don't need to do any effort to actually recall these elements.

In fact we read about them so much and so often, that we have developed a whole personality for each element.

No two elements are the same. Some superfluously same elements can have very different properties in certain domains.

Partly right partly wrong.

It is true if you learn everything in English you of course have a sense of "feeling".

But for most non-expert students, for doctors who do not do research, for engineers who use the knowledge of physics as opposed of creating new ideas, for the General Public, what's the point?

Why doctors in China have to learn a new world of words?
How can you explain "retina" and "cornea" to patients?
Why not just let 0.001% experts translate them into perfect Chinese terms made of the simplest characters that even primary school students can read, then the rest of the country can enjoy the excitement of learning new stuff using the language and characters they use every single day?

The chasm between the public and the experts, between the experts who use practical knowledge in real life and the experts who are into basic research, is simply too big for a non-English society. I could simply imagine how bad an engineer in india could be if his/her english is just so-so.

I could argue, the language benefit in China, is one important part of China's emerging power in technology and science.





Exact same meaning in two languages, how short is Chinese!
Chinese primary students can read the entire paragraph and pretty much grasp the main meaning.
How about a 50-year-old native English speaker?

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Partly right partly wrong.

It is true if you learn everything in English you of course have a sense of "feeling".

But for most non-expert students, for doctors who do not do research, for engineers who use the knowledge of physics as opposed of creating new ideas, for the General Public, what's the point?

Why doctors in China have to learn a new world of words?
How can you explain "retina" and "cornea" to patients?
Why not just let 0.001% experts translate them into perfect Chinese terms made of the simplest characters that even primary school students can read, then the rest of the country can enjoy the excitement of learning new stuff using the language and characters they use every single day?

The chasm between the public and the experts, between the experts who use practical knowledge in real life and the experts who are into basic research, is simply too big for a non-English society. I could simply imagine how bad an engineer in india could be if his/her english is just so-so.

I could argue, the language benefit in China, is one important part of China's emerging power in technology and science.





Exact same meaning in two languages, how short is Chinese!
Chinese primary students can read the entire paragraph and pretty much grasp the main meaning.
How about a 50-year-old native English speaker?

View attachment 439117 View attachment 439118

Yeah, true.

 

[sinait]

I love how with 汉字Chinese characters I can tell what base property the element has. Those containing 钅is metallic, 气 is gaseous, etc if you remember the characters you can already categorise the elements. That's the wonder of Hanzi. I can understand the meaning of many unknown words based on its composition. The characters contain a lot of useful information that helps in understanding concepts.

I prefer that for Internationally recognized names, the Chinese will continue to use them and not try to convert them to mangled Chinese characters.
Trump instead of 特朗普(te lang pu).
Mercedes-Benz instead of 梅赛德斯-奔驰 (mei sai de si-ben chi)
Google instead of 谷歌 (gu ge)


English Alphabet and ASCII characters are common in China, hanyu pinyin, so most Chinese should have no problem using Internationally common names in English.
.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

I prefer that for Internationally recognized names, the Chinese will continue to use them and not try to convert them to mangled Chinese characters.
Trump instead of 特朗普(te lang pu).
Mercedes-Benz instead of 梅赛德斯-奔驰 (mei sai de si-ben chi)
Google instead of 谷歌 (gu ge)


English Alphabet and ASCII characters are common in China, hanyu pinyin, so most Chinese should have no problem using Internationally common names in English.
.

Are the French, Germans as well as other European languages using the English alphabet?

 

[sinait]

Are the French, Germans as well as other European languages using the English alphabet?

That's why I quote "Internationally recognized names".
Use existing names in their Internationally known names in English, French or German, but preferably in English as the Chinese Hanyu Pinyin is using ASCII characters which is using the English alphabet.
.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

That's why I quote "Internationally recognized names".
Use existing names in their Internationally known names in English, French or German, but preferably in English as the Chinese Hanyu Pinyin is using ASCII characters which is using the English alphabet.
.

There is no such thing called English alphabet. It's Latin or Roman alphabet and English is using the Latin alphabet as well.

 

[sinait]

There is no such thing called English alphabet. It's Latin or Roman alphabet and English is using the Latin alphabet as well.

That's why I quote "Internationally recognized names".
Use existing names in their Internationally known names in English, French or German, but preferably in English as the Chinese Hanyu Pinyin is using ASCII characters which is using the English alphabet.

My emphasis is on ASCII, which we all use on our pc/computers.
American Standard Code for Information Interchange.
So my "English" is referring to American ASCII characters.
I am also not into European Latin or Roman, but thanks for that clarification.
I don't think French or German is common in China.
.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

My emphasis is on ASCII, which we all use on our pc/computers.
American Standard Code for Information Interchange.
So my "English" is referring to American ASCII characters.
I am also not into European Latin or Roman, but thanks for that clarification.
I don't think French or German is common in China.
.

Well, the problem is, I have been asked by practically all Chinese I have met in China why we are using English alphabet to write German. That is rather ignorant and insulting. They didn't even understand when I told them that English and German is written in Latin alphabet.

 

[sinait]

Well, the problem is, I have been asked by practically all Chinese I have met in China why we are using English alphabet to write German. That is rather ignorant and insulting. They didn't even understand when I told them that English and German is written in Latin alphabet.

Shouldn't have taken offense with your Chinese friends.
They are not familiar with European languages and the Latin alphabet and our standard PC keyboards don't have "ä, Ä, ö, Ö, ü, Ü, ß". So most are not aware that German characters are different from English or American.
Still I am puzzled why your friends would ask you such a question.

Though English is based on or evolved from the Latin alphabet, I don't think we can say there is no such thing as English alphabet. If you noticed, my emphasis is on "ASCII characters" rather than "alphabet". I used "alphabet" just in case some of our Chinese members don't know what are ASCII characters.
.