Lockheed shows interest in building F-16s in India

[Spectre]

Whats decades old?

Is it structural or the systems/weapons within thats decades old?

I don't know much about the aircrafts but don't they kind of reach a technological plateau where in it is better to opt or incorporate a new design more in tune with advancements in material and structural engineering instead of upgrading existing one?

 

[Bang Galore]

In terms of numbers, rafales may not fill the void of one MIG 21/27 bird by bird, but obviously capability wise they're replacing several MIGs with one rafale..

I wish they had actually thought it out like you have articulated. Instead the IAF insisted on going 1 for 1 replacement even though they originally wanted 126 M2k's. Then 126 Rafales. Wish they had given all the contenders a ball park figure & told them to make their offers including quantity available for that price & specify the capability available. Only then would have we have had a reasonable competition. Of course, Rafales & Typhoons were going to be the best but they were also coming with ridiculous prices. Unless the IAF had held on to a budget, there was no meaning having light fighters like F-16 & Gripen in the competition. Should have compared a 126F-16's & 50 Rafales and then could have decided whether the Rafale was the better offer. Now, we just have a mess where we are getting a small quantity of Rafales & looking elsewhere for numbers. Maybe that was the best way to go from the very beginning, the IAF should have been clearer rather than delude themselves into believing that India would buy 126 Rafales no matter the cost.

 

[Great Sachin]

Although F-16 is a great aircraft but then India as a country is at a stage where it should be looking for a brand new platform like Rafale or Typhoon not a 42 year old aircraft.

In case of Pakistan or other users of F-16, its a different matter if they buy new, as they already have that plane for decades in their air forces.

Manufacturing in India ..does not mean India will buy them...it means in future you will buy "Made in India" F16s

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Building means exactly that - joint production with India as a base and supply hub. Assembling holds no significant advantage either politically where it would be seen another blow to Make in India or strategically in terms of acquiring production and technological expertise.

Regards

I don't think it means anything to say, build completely. Because everyone, even the mighty United States, have to use components and materials from across the place.

Also, I am kind of skeptical that Jet Engine manufacturing will be shifted to India. Engines are a top notch item, which supports thousands of extremely highly paid jobs, and which have hefty profit margins.

India doesn't even have a skilled work force for this kind of work.

So, the question again returns to how much of F16 going to be build in India.

Manufacturing in India ..does not mean India will buy them...it means in future you will buy "Made in India" F16s

It is not a commodity that it can be made anywhere and sold anywhere. It involves deeply political and strategic thinking.

Also, F16 by 2020, will be an extremely fringe product to say the least for most modern militaries.

I think India is jumping the gun here. Try building up the economy, get more people skilled, and then we can think of jet engines etc may be 15 years later.

Also, any proposal for aircraft or aeronautical manufacturing should be welcomed as it will at the very least help train people for our future high tech aviation sector. We have nothing to loose. We have surplus labor.

 

[skysthelimit]

I think this is the best pic of conformal fuel tanks I have seen. Thanks

 

[migflug]

Hmm...You Got the point except one...I would like to tell you that, 36 Rafale is for SCF....Those will be responsible for Nuclear air attack.. So.... No need to cancel Rafale deal ...we can still got for F-18SH.



F-35 is not matured enough yet... Still F-35 got issues.

I was talking abt made in India rafale

 

[dadeechi]

F-16 Block 60? Why not F-15SE?

India has the Su30s. The F-16 could be something as alternative to the Tejas which is a single engine light weight fighter plane..

Considering the price that is being spoken wrt Rafale, the F-16 offer to build in India looks very attractive. We are never going to be able to afford a large number of Rafales anytime soon.

I was assuming that this is related to the new RFP to make 90 planes as part of make-in-India vision after the cancellation of MMRCA RFP.

The question is what was InAF's view with regards to MMRCA. Was it to replace MIG-29s/Mirage-2000s OR to replace MIG-21s. Both single and twin engine competed and two twin engine planes were shortlisted indicating that the plan was to replace MIG-29s/Mirage-2000s. If this is true, then F-15SE and SU-35 would be the suitable picks.

On the other hand, if this is a replacement for Tejas which was supposed to replace MIG-21s then LM's F-16s or Saab's Gripen would make sense. But this also means we may have another new RFP being issued...

Like the Griphen proposals, this isnt going to happen. I'll bet on it.

I'm not so sure, there might be some interest in this. No one is about to bring that subject up with the PM of all people if there is zero interest. Some chatter in the background.

It's not. FGFA, MKI, Rafale, Mirage UPG, 29UPG, Jags, Tejas, AMCA

And you want to add another different aircraft to this zoo?

FGFA - is (almost) scrapped. To be seen how many PAK-FAs India would go for..
MKI - Upgrade may or may not happen after the SU-35 sale to Pakistan
Rafale - reduced the number to 36 and still the deal is pending
Mirage/MIG-29/Jag - would be retired in a decade
Tejas - Tejas -I token numbers. Tejas -II still in development
AMCA - still on Paper

 

[hunter-killer]

FGFA - is (almost) scrapped. To be seen how many PAK-FAs India would go for..
MKI - Upgrade may or may not happen after the SU-35 sale to Pakistan
Rafale - reduced the number to 36 and still the deal is pending
Mirage/MIG-29/Jag - would be retired in a decade
Tejas - Tejas -I token numbers. Tejas -II still in development
AMCA - still on Paper

FGFA is not scrapped, what gave you that idea ?

Rafale are going to be at least double those numbers, be sure of it, or, they'll scrap it whole, either way, 36 is too small a fleet and just not happening.

MKIs will all be super MKI'd, and there are still 72 yet to be inducted, those 72 could turn out to be su35s too, what makes you so sure of a sale to Pakistan anyway ?

Mirage/MIG-29/Jag .. Jag yes, but the Migs and Mirage fleets are in either the middle, or fresh off MLUs

Tejas - finally wasted so much time and money and have a flying jet, they will buy enough of those.

AMCA - don't hold your breath for that one

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

No need to add a new member to our large number of members. A more logical step would be to buy second hand Mirage 2000 from Greece and UAE and upgrade them , will cost around 50 million but serve for another 15-20 years.

Compared to F16,which will offer us no commonality with our existing fleet and our potential enemy knows this more better than us and what more it will cost us not less than 80 million per bird.

 

[somebozo]

being a growing and developing country, obviously multinationals won't directly start manufacturing their 'flagship' products. Its loigical that initially they would try to build a plant to manufacture low end or mass produced products.

The same way what LG/ Samsung did in India in early 2000s. Now LG has its 3rd largest manufacturing in India after China/ S.Korea.

Do you know VW/ Skoda had a Indian plant which initially only assembled cars till around 2008? Then they started manufacturing small hatchbacks and lower end sedans at Aurangabad/ Pune for the Indian market. But from 2015, they have ramped up production and the cars are exported to Europe/ S.E Asia.

With a major growing country like India, who by 2020 will be atleast a 5 trillion USD economy, it is inevitable tjat many multinationals will enter into the foray, before its too late and labour costs increase in the next two decades.

Growth in Auto assembly and manufacturing is actually driven by global slow down in economy and the necessity to cut cost..that combined with dramatic rise of automation and labor cost in Europe...In terms of innovation...Europe still leads the way...Hyundai just built a massive R/D center in Germany because they recognize it as the power house of automotive development..

When vehicles rolls off an assembly line in India...it is guaranteed to be sh1t....this is what a German auto exec said to me in private after we hit it off at an expo and decided to take dinner together afterwards...

 

[Tridibans]

Growth in Auto assembly and manufacturing is actually driven by global slow down in economy and the necessity to cut cost..that combined with dramatic rise of automation and labor cost in Europe...In terms of innovation...Europe still leads the way...Hyundai just built a massive R/D center in Germany because they recognize it as the power house of automotive development..

When vehicles rolls off an assembly line in India...it is guaranteed to be sh1t....this is what a German auto exec said to me in private after we hit it off at an expo and decided to take dinner together afterwards...

First of all two observations,

1) In an online anonymous forum, personal conversation with XYZ at ABC place holds zero credence. You need to show links or credible sources to back up your claim.

2) We are nowhere near Germany or Japan in terms of Quality at present, and no one is claiming India to be the top manufacturing hub.


But slowly, with us being one of the largest economies in this world and the 4th largest auto market, companies are setting up manufacturing and R&D plants in the country for the future boom .


Hyundai has its largest manufacturing outside S.Korea in India. It exports cars to Europe and Africa from here...
Who We Are | HYUNDAI MOTOR INDIA - NEW THINKING. NEW POSSIBILITIES.

Audi now produces some of its high end models for S.Asia at India (the ones sold in Pakistan too )

Production plants > Audi India

PS: When I had visited the VW plant in Aurangabad, a senior German executive told me since 2012 when the plant was upgraded to manufacture European models, it had to be certified for EU standards and by EU inspectors. It is now upto Global standards otherwise the cars will be rejected

 

[black-hawk_101]

Heard of C-130Js but not this one.

 

[bdslph]

i think F15 would be better for India

 

[Srinivas]

i think F15 would be better for India

For strike purpose and air superiority IAF has su 30 MKI's.

India lacks a single engine fighter which can protect Indian territory. Single engine fighters are cheaper to maintain.

LCA MK2 is 3 to 4 years away and even by 2020 it may not fill the gap of depleting force.

 

[Rank]

F-16s? No way! Why would we manufacture an antique 40 year old platform?

Your Daddy USA majority combat front line fleet dependent on that 40 years aircraft. Forgt to mention US also don't have 2015 newly designed SU30.