Let's not pretend that this is about the CCP

[Genesis]

The Chinese Communist Party is evil. The CCP is communist. The CCP is oppressive. The CCP doesn't respect human rights. The CCP is this that and the other thing. These can all be true, and I'm not here to argue against any of it. At this point you either see the CCP for what it is, or see it as you want to see it. Be it great or otherwise. What needs to be eliminated as a subject of debate is that CCP is what certain people find repulsive about China.


Certain people hate China because of China's power.


You can argue until your eyes turn green about how weak China is relative to America. I would probably agree with most of that statement. At 11 carriers, China is no where near that type of power projection. At 18 trillion dollars, America is not only the biggest economy, it's also one fourth the population. Alliances with all the developed economies, China has neither the pull nor the appeal of the US, or close.

What cannot be said is that some people are not looking in the rear view mirror.

With four times the population, China is poised to take the global economic crown and has already made itself the biggest trade nation. With a bureaucracy hell bent on growth, the Chinese infrastructure, and social services are being improved at an unprecedented rate, could very well be better than the whole developing world combined. With the fastest growing military budget and second biggest in the world, China only spends more per percentage of GDP than two pacifist countries in the top 10.

If CCP is truly the problem, China would not be vilified as such. America has allies that fair way worse on Women's rights, worker's rights. America has allies that are doing far worse than China on the HDI, and economic development. Even on the political fronts, America is allies or friendly with dictators, and human right offenders.

America has supported country that used chemical weapons, America is supporting a country that is, if not genocide, than at least has directly resulted in the death of thousands if not more. America is supporting countries that have known cases of student killing, and America is supporting countries that are actively racist. Even on the economic issue of currency manipulation and copy righted laws, America seems to be only focusing on one country, though offenders are numerous.

This isn't to vilify America, I don't really care either way, but to say what's the difference between those countries and China? If you don't know, you don't need to be here.

 

[Jacob Martin]

You are right. There is no difference. America supports vile dictatorships and autocratic regimes throughout the world. It should not do so. But then by that same coin it should not support China as well. I understand your point, America should oppose its allies of convenience so that China can then jump in and fill the vacuum, as it did in North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, and with sundry thuggish regimes in Africa, including the master Thug Omar al-Bashir (the killer of Darfur). China can then lend a helping hand to these regimes - a friend in need is a friend indeed. Well played.

 

[Dungeness]

The Chinese Communist Party is evil. The CCP is communist. The CCP is oppressive. The CCP doesn't respect human rights. The CCP is this that and the other thing. These can all be true, and I'm not here to argue against any of it. At this point you either see the CCP for what it is, or see it as you want to see it. Be it great or otherwise. What needs to be eliminated as a subject of debate is that CCP is what certain people find repulsive about China.


Certain people hate China because of China's power.


You can argue until your eyes turn green about how weak China is relative to America. I would probably agree with most of that statement. At 11 carriers, China is no where near that type of power projection. At 18 trillion dollars, America is not only the biggest economy, it's also one fourth the population. Alliances with all the developed economies, China has neither the pull nor the appeal of the US, or close.

What cannot be said is that some people are not looking in the rear view mirror.

With four times the population, China is poised to take the global economic crown and has already made itself the biggest trade nation. With a bureaucracy hell bent on growth, the Chinese infrastructure, and social services are being improved at an unprecedented rate, could very well be better than the whole developing world combined. With the fastest growing military budget and second biggest in the world, China only spends more per percentage of GDP than two pacifist countries in the top 10.

If CCP is truly the problem, China would not be vilified as such. America has allies that fair way worse on Women's rights, worker's rights. America has allies that are doing far worse than China on the HDI, and economic development. Even on the political fronts, America is allies or friendly with dictators, and human right offenders.

America has supported country that used chemical weapons, America is supporting a country that is, if not genocide, than at least has directly resulted in the death of thousands if not more. America is supporting countries that have known cases of student killing, and America is supporting countries that are actively racist. Even on the economic issue of currency manipulation and copy righted laws, America seems to be only focusing on one country, though offenders are numerous.

This isn't to vilify America, I don't really care either way, but to say what's the difference between those countries and China? If you don't know, you don't need to be here.

America is not about moral high ground, is all about its "National Interest".

 

[Genesis]

You are right. There is no difference. America supports vile dictatorships and autocratic regimes throughout the world. It should not do so. But then by that same coin it should not support China as well. I understand your point, America should oppose its allies of convenience so that China can then jump in and fill the vacuum, as it did in North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, and with sundry thuggish regimes in Africa, including the master Thug Omar al-Bashir (the killer of Darfur). China can then lend a helping hand to these regimes - a friend in need is a friend indeed. Well played.

I don't care about that, and I know what the media's role is and I know what the government's role is. I expect them to continue more of the same. What baffles me is, members in this forum, I assume no official affiliation, would also sing the same tune.

It's as clear as day what's really going on.

America is not about moral high ground, is all about its "National Interest".

As it should, American tax payers' hard earned cash demands it. What should be corrected is this attitude in this forum. It's a cop out. When ever an argument that goes south for them, they bring out the CCP, instead of accepting the truth and continue with facts.

 

[Dungeness]

As it should, American tax payers' hard earned cash demands it. What should be corrected is this attitude in this forum. It's a cop out. When ever an argument that goes south for them, they bring out the CCP, instead of accepting the truth and continue with facts.

If not bring out freedom, democracy, vote, human rights, or even FB and Youtube, what else they can use to counter China's rise, short of full blown military confrontation? USA will not come down easy on China, by hook or by crook. That is when the "International Community" comes in handy. Tough road ahead next 10 years.

 

[Kolaps]

The Chinese Communist Party is evil. The CCP is communist. The CCP is oppressive. The CCP doesn't respect human rights......

I want to add something too!

CCP is a traitor of China!

CCP hates everything about the Chinese!

CCP hates Chinese culture, label it as inferior, outdated, etc.

CCP destroyed and stopped the continues 5000 years of Chinese civilization, once and forever.

CCP made Chinese people as one of the poorest and most backward people in the world. (lower GDP per capita than Africa)


Oh yeah, CCP is a blind-fanatic Whites worshiper!

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I want to add something too!

KMT is a traitor of China! (US lapdog)

KMT hates everything about the Chinese! (They turned China into a sh1hole.)

KMT hates Chinese culture, label it as inferior, outdated, etc. (That's why they worship the Christianity.)

KMT destroyed and stopped the continues 5000 years of Chinese civilization, once and forever. (China was nearly dismantled during KMT's reign, nuff said.)

KMT made Chinese people as one of the poorest and most backward people in the world. (lower GDP per capita than Africa)


Oh yeah, KMT is a blind-fanatic Whites worshiper! (Just look at Chiang's wife; "only my face is oriental, while everything of mine is white!")

I fixed that for you.

 

[Genesis]

I want to add something too!

CCP is a traitor of China!

CCP hates everything about the Chinese!

CCP hates Chinese culture, label it as inferior, outdated, etc.

CCP destroyed and stopped the continues 5000 years of Chinese civilization, once and forever.

CCP made Chinese people as one of the poorest and most backward people in the world. (lower GDP per capita than Africa)


Oh yeah, CCP is a blind-fanatic Whites worshiper!

I always have this argument with my Taiwan friends, how can Chinese be destroying Chinese culture. What ever we do, that's Chinese culture.

That's like saying I'm destroying myself, because I changed with the times. What ever I do that's me, not some imaginary idea of me. Same is true with Countries.

Also I was unaware of the lower GDP per capita than Africa deal. Mostly because it's not true, but whatever. You think it's true, that's all it matters.

Great post btw.

 

[ahojunk]

America is not about moral high ground, is all about its "National Interest".

At the country level, forget about allies, morality, human rights, democracy, etc. etc.

It's all about the country's own national interests.