Kashmir Situation & Pakistan's War Options

[Lincoln]

What do you think what is India's next move? make a wild guess. here is a hint.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ys-subramanian-swamy/articleshow/62263665.cms

You want to wait till India moves into AJK, GB even if you turn a blind eye to innocent Kashmiri Muslim girls being raped, youth being tortured and genocide being carried out?



let them put restrictions? Pakistan's energy supply route doesn't pass through India first of all. Secondly what do you think India hasn't put restrictrions on Pakistan already? They influence everywhere to take measures against Pakistan from sports till FATF. From business till jobs. They are already against us in every field. Even terrorist modi went on to attack pakistan to win elections. That's what they think of Pakistan. Here we are doing gandhi geeri.

1. We should defend, no doubt, with our lives!

I simply don't think war is an option at this point in time when your only backup is Nuking the subcontinent, and your justification is that Pakistan has nothing to lose. That is insanity.

Yes, what's happening in Kashmir is bad. But the world goes on; most people are more distressed about their toothaches and slight head pains than they would ever be about children dying in Africa everyday. But we, as Pakistan, have a special bonding with Kashmir, we should push it diplomatically in all avenues to make sure that genocide does not happen - step 1 of that is media and agenda exposure.

2. Trade route, we have significant exports to East. Denial of our water would likewise be returned with a denial to their water, and India is pretty extensive so that can cost us more fuel. That's doing a lot of assuming though in both cases because ships don't necessarily pass through territorial waters, I believe there are international maritime routes hence which is why I suggested it as pointless.

The way Pak Gov and Army are going I think Pak will be de nuclearised before they
can use it. It is pointless to waste billions of dollars on something that you are not
going to use.

It is to be used only, and only, to defend the sovereignty. The Nuclear capability today is due to the result of '71 war!

you are joking.. right?

When the Soviet Union collapsed after losing the war in Afghanistan, its economy completely crashed, and it was awful, with states claiming independence from the Union.

It was so bad that Russians used to bring items from the Soviet Union to Pakistan, here in Karachi, to sell and make a better profit.

But how bad could it possibly be, you might ask? Well... the Soviet leaders were considering the option of selling the Nuclear warheads to get out of the crisis. Eventually though, they got lucky and went through the IMF's "shocking" program.

So... stay ready to defend but fix your house before you leave otherwise it will crumble while you're away.

 

[Baba Google]

Yes, what's happening in Kashmir is bad. But the world goes on; most people are more distressed about their toothaches and slight head pains than they would ever be about children dying in Africa everyday.

Ohh bhaijaan what are you saying, think logically... indian work is underway to stop the rivers specially ravi and sutlej permanently. they are already issuing statements about it - they deserve genuine liter parade from us. when people are fighting for water its not terrorism or war but a self defence because water is need of every human being on this planet.

 

[Kaniska]

It has been almost 20 days since Kahsmir issue has been in headlines all over the world. Pakistan has launched diplomatic offensive but still allowed Modi to use Pakistan's airspace. Imran Khan has been busy tweeting and SMQ busy in contacting foreign missions. Rallies are being arranged, slogans are being shouted, tables are being thumped, articles are being written but at the same time the reaction Pakistan was expecting from world body and powerful countries is not the same.

Modi is being greeted by France. UAE is going to confer killer of Gujrat and Kashmir her highest civilian award and other countries if passing a strong comment is just "to resolve the issues bilaterally". Even Sri Lanka issued a clarification that she didn't talk about UN resolutions and blah blah.

While Pakistan's voice is not being heard the way it should have been, it is clear that Pakistan has to fight this war ALONE. Sooner or later Pakistan will have to use force. The part of Kashmir, Pakistan has was SNATCHED by FORCE and India had to rush to UN. The only language fanatics understand is force.

So here are Pakistan's options where I would like comments from senior junior members well versed with warfare..

1. Limited war at LoC while being prepared for an out war.
2. Start by destrying India's dams on the grounds of water terrorism by India.
3. Close India's route of energy supply through Arabian Sea.
4. Keeping end in the mind, nuke Mumbai to start with.
5. Open LoC and allow common people to cross into Kashmir and engage Indian forces there.
6. Wait till India acquires Rafale, then go on a war.

Comment, please!!!!!!

Well...on a side note...Indian current gov is just looking for these excuses that you have suggested above.If Pakistan really follows the steps to be taken by your Gov and initiate a war rather than following current diplomatic way, i believe, it is an advantage to India to change the public perception of world

Your economy is not that good either. India wouldn't want war at any cost. Pakistan may be having nothing to lose but India's whole economy gained in last decade will be ripped off. So don't scare by this shit. India still remains the biggest loan taker and USAID getter in the whole till date.



Why Pakistan cannot close the energy supply though its waters? (if it is so now, which I think it is so)? Let Indian ships take a longer route. Atleast they will have to pay more.

India under BJP is different than Non BJP parties...In South Asian politics, parties can go for war and then provide an opium of religion to public...Every one will be happy...
So do not be under delusion that India is not ready to risk its economy to go for any war in Kashmir....BJP gov is aware calculated the risk of 370 deal and still gone for it..

 

[Ultima Thule]

It has been almost 20 days since Kahsmir issue has been in headlines all over the world. Pakistan has launched diplomatic offensive but still allowed Modi to use Pakistan's airspace. Imran Khan has been busy tweeting and SMQ busy in contacting foreign missions. Rallies are being arranged, slogans are being shouted, tables are being thumped, articles are being written but at the same time the reaction Pakistan was expecting from world body and powerful countries is not the same.

Modi is being greeted by France. UAE is going to confer killer of Gujrat and Kashmir her highest civilian award and other countries if passing a strong comment is just "to resolve the issues bilaterally". Even Sri Lanka issued a clarification that she didn't talk about UN resolutions and blah blah.

While Pakistan's voice is not being heard the way it should have been, it is clear that Pakistan has to fight this war ALONE. Sooner or later Pakistan will have to use force. The part of Kashmir, Pakistan has was SNATCHED by FORCE and India had to rush to UN. The only language fanatics understand is force.

So here are Pakistan's options where I would like comments from senior junior members well versed with warfare..

1. Limited war at LoC while being prepared for an out war.
2. Start by destrying India's dams on the grounds of water terrorism by India.
3. Close India's route of energy supply through Arabian Sea.
4. Keeping end in the mind, nuke Mumbai to start with.
5. Open LoC and allow common people to cross into Kashmir and engage Indian forces there.
6. Wait till India acquires Rafale, then go on a war.

Comment, please!!!!!!

If you want Pakistan to do suicide then its ok, rest of your ideas is insanely stupid @MM_Haider

 

[scionofPakwattan]

It has been almost 20 days since Kahsmir issue has been in headlines all over the world. Pakistan has launched diplomatic offensive but still allowed Modi to use Pakistan's airspace. Imran Khan has been busy tweeting and SMQ busy in contacting foreign missions. Rallies are being arranged, slogans are being shouted, tables are being thumped, articles are being written but at the same time the reaction Pakistan was expecting from world body and powerful countries is not the same.

Modi is being greeted by France. UAE is going to confer killer of Gujrat and Kashmir her highest civilian award and other countries if passing a strong comment is just "to resolve the issues bilaterally". Even Sri Lanka issued a clarification that she didn't talk about UN resolutions and blah blah.

While Pakistan's voice is not being heard the way it should have been, it is clear that Pakistan has to fight this war ALONE. Sooner or later Pakistan will have to use force. The part of Kashmir, Pakistan has was SNATCHED by FORCE and India had to rush to UN. The only language fanatics understand is force.

So here are Pakistan's options where I would like comments from senior junior members well versed with warfare..

1. Limited war at LoC while being prepared for an out war.
2. Start by destrying India's dams on the grounds of water terrorism by India.
3. Close India's route of energy supply through Arabian Sea.
4. Keeping end in the mind, nuke Mumbai to start with.
5. Open LoC and allow common people to cross into Kashmir and engage Indian forces there.
6. Wait till India acquires Rafale, then go on a war.

Comment, please!!!!!!

1. its already happening. LOC has been hot for a few years and will keep getting hotter.
2. you cant destroy a dam without declaring all out war. once war is declared all targets are open but being a Muslim army, we would like least amount of collateral damage to civilians and to farmland that is a source of livelihood to common man - like we did in 65 and 71
3. India is aware of such a blockade and has considered contingency in such a scenario - its debatable if a complete blockade is possible - I doubt with current resources a complete blockade can be achieved.
4. This is absurd, obviously. Nuke gives us a louder voice on the world stage but cant be considered unless enemy is close to annihilating us.
5. This should only be done once the world has accepted our stance on Kashmir as legitimate and the Kashmir struggle as legitimate. this will make the kashmir struggle kosher - kind of like the struggle against Assad in Syria.
6. I think waiting for Rafale would obviously make it harder for PAF to counter IAF. this shouldn't factor in whether war should be declared now or later.

I think the only option is to up the ante in every way possible. including military engagement and especially diplomatic assault. Kind of like Israel did in Palestine. They kept military pressure up while engaging everyone in the world diplomatically while Israel gained technical knowledge and now the world is constructively relying on Israeli tech and Israel is a 'responsible state' in the world affairs. Pakistan needs to start innovating in financial and tech fields and comeo ut with solutions to the world problems that is the only way to stay relevant so the world would pay attention to our stance on regional/global issues.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Otherwise Pakistan has capability to blow us Indians to smithereens. I know. Thanks again.

Technically, Yes.

 

[TNT]

There are many threads on the issue but most are unrealistic and emotional. I want to give a somewhat realistic option. Keeping aside the discussion about whether we go to war or not, lets assume we have to, because there is no other option. In my opinion we can do the following.


1- First smuggle large amount of wepons and ammunition along with IEDs to kashmiri freedom fighters.
2- inflitrate special services operative to join hands with freedom fighters and block logistic supply routes.
3- as supply routes are being blocked, have a multi pronged lightning fast incursion through LOC and capture key areas.
4- arrest as many indian army personnel as possible and shift them to Pakistan for future negotiations. These should include pundits too.
5- be fully ready on south punjab borders.
6- partial blockade of arabian sea with help of missiles and subs
7- as situation gets hot, have a live fire test of a tactical nuke (minaturised ones) near the southern area borders. The radiation on border area will deter any indian incursions and also scare the international community, which will hasten to stop the war.
8- hold positions in IOK and negotiate a ceasefire by using those thousands of soldiers and pundits captured.
9- do all this before india gets rafale.
10- announce a referendum in the whole of kashmir (including AJK) and ask UN and EU observers to help monitor and conduct a free and fair plebiscite. Also ask for UN peacekeeping mission to be deployed.

This will not only let us keep the liberated areas but also give legitimacy to it. We might face some sanctions for testing live fire nuke but we can handle that.
What do the PDF seniors think?

@Mangus Ortus Novem @Shane @Khafee@Dubious @Signalian @I.R.A @Areesh@war&peace @Farah Sohail @Zibago@Arsalan @waz and others

 

[PaulSimon]

1. Limited war at LoC while being prepared for an out war.

This is an OK move. This already happening for many decades.

2. Start by destrying India's dams on the grounds of water terrorism by India.

This is a great move.

3. Close India's route of energy supply through Arabian Sea.

Excellent move.

4. Keeping end in the mind, nuke Mumbai to start with.

This is a masterstroke that will bring India to its knees.

5. Open LoC and allow common people to cross into Kashmir and engage Indian forces there.

Replace this option with Pushing fully armed Taliban into India.

6. Wait till India acquires Rafale, then go on a war.

Seriously? How will this help Pakistan?

Well...on a side note...Indian current gov is just looking for these excuses that you have suggested above.If Pakistan really follows the steps to be taken by your Gov and initiate a war rather than following current diplomatic way, i believe, it is an advantage to India to change the public perception of world

Har Chup.

Haven't you learnt anything from the Feb-2019 debacle?

 

[Yousafzai_M]

This sounds like a childish wishlist, not different from the way banyas talk about action in Pakistan.

You are basing your plan on the crazy assumption that Endia, 10 times richer, bigger and stronger will keep calm and let us carry out your plan.

The way I see it, there is not going to be a war. The big powers will not let that happen. Maybe a skirmish or an air tussle which, as always, both sides will claim to have won. Their supreme court will roll back this 370 thing and we will be back to pre 5 August.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

War is the continuation of politics by other means - Carl von Clausewitz, a Prussian General

We have been defeated in the realm of Siyaset, so we need to start a revival from there - Dede Pasha, an Ottoman Statesman

The number of options in geopolitics is inexhaustible - Suleyman Demirel, a Turkish President

 

[PaulSimon]

There are many threads on the issue but most are unrealistic and emotional. I want to give a somewhat realistic option. Keeping aside the discussion about whether we go to war or not, lets assume we have to, because there is no other option. In my opinion we can do the following.


1- First smuggle large amount of wepons and ammunition along with IEDs to kashmiri freedom fighters.
2- inflitrate special services operative to join hands with freedom fighters and block logistic supply routes.
3- as supply routes are being blocked, have a multi pronged lightning fast incursion through LOC and capture key areas.
4- arrest as many indian army personnel as possible and shift them to Pakistan for future negotiations. These should include pundits too.
5- be fully ready on south punjab borders.
6- partial blockade of arabian sea with help of missiles and subs
7- as situation gets hot, have a live fire test of a tactical nuke (minaturised ones) near the southern area borders. The radiation on border area will deter any indian incursions and also scare the international community, which will hasten to stop the war.
8- hold positions in IOK and negotiate a ceasefire by using those thousands of soldiers and pundits captured.
9- do all this before india gets rafale.
10- announce a referendum in the whole of kashmir (including AJK) and ask UN and EU observers to help monitor and conduct a free and fair plebiscite. Also ask for UN peacekeeping mission to be deployed.

This will not only let us keep the liberated areas but also give legitimacy to it. We might face some sanctions for testing live fire nuke but we can handle that.

This post deserves a positive rating.

 

[TNT]

This sounds like a childish wishlist, not different from the way banyas talk about action in Pakistan.

You are basing your plan on the crazy assumption that Endia, 10 times richer, bigger and stronger will keep calm and let us carry out your plan.

The way I see it, there is not going to be a war. The big powers will not let that happen. Maybe a skirmish or an air tussle which, as always, both sides will claim to have won. Their supreme court will roll back this 370 thing and we will be back to pre 5 August.

The thread is based on assumption that we do go to war. If we do, it should be quick as i mentioned.
I also never said india will watch, they will fight and we will have loses as the case in every war. The trick is to stop the war when we have upper hand. Thats where the nuke test comes to play. The next step is having something to negotiate with and having a few thousand indian sdiers and pundits will do that.
Finally announcing a plebiscite in the whole kashmir to let kashmiris decide their future gives us legitimacy. Going back to pre 5 aug is of no help to us. This annexation can be a God given opportunity. If we go to pre 5 Aug situation, we may never get kashmir.

 

[Kabira]

No. This will put back pressure on Pakistan. Right now India have backstabbed their Kashmiri stooges. Yes every nation have these traitors helping occupation in history in return of some benefits to their family. Nothing new here. But these Abdullahs at least told them that ethnic cleansing was not even imaginable.

Now is one thing to become stooge and another to support ethnic cleansing. Many of Kashmiri stooges blamed Pakistan for terrorism. Now they will see only locals carrying out attacks. India know this and this is why she got desperate. Pulwana was done by local boy and thats what scares India.

The thread is based on assumption that we do go to war. If we do, it should be quick as i mentioned.
I also never said india will watch, they will fight and we will have loses as the case in every war. The trick is to stop the war when we have upper hand. Thats where the nuke test comes to play. The next step is having something to negotiate with and having a few thousand indian sdiers and pundits will do that.
Finally announcing a plebiscite in the whole kashmir to let kashmiris decide their future gives us legitimacy. Going back to pre 5 aug is of no help to us. This annexation can be a God given opportunity. If we go to pre 5 Aug situation, we may never get kashmir.

The war is coming anyway because India will blame Pakistan for more pulwanas. But Im against sending militants from this side unless we dont care about fighting this issue internationally.

Thing is if we could liberate IoK then sending militants is waste of time and actually backfires.

 

[TNT]

No. This will put back pressure on Pakistan. Right now India have backstabbed their Kashmiri stooges. Yes every nation have these traitors helping occupation in history in return of some benefits to their family. Nothing new here. But these Abdullahs at least told them that ethnic cleansing was not even imaginable.

Now is one thing to become stooge and another to support ethnic cleansing. Many of Kashmiri stooges blamed Pakistan for terrorism. Now they will see only locals carrying out attacks. India know this and this is why she got desperate. Pulwana was done by local boy and thats what scares India.



The war is coming anyway because India will blame Pakistan for more pulwanas. But Im against sending militants from this side unless we dont care about fighting this issue internationally.

Thing is if we could liberate IoK then sending militants is waste of time and actually backfires.

Yes war is coming and therefore better to fight it on our terms and our time of choosing. I mentioned sending weapons and ammo to kashmiri freedom fighters, who are already fighting indian occupation with scarce resources.
Sending militants and using militancy is a slow process and backfires, i agree with u. That is why i suggested to first send special services operatives to create diversion and block indian army logistic supply routes and then send in army in a lightning fast attack to capture key areas. The local help will tilt situation in our favour.
Indian annexation have already exposed international community's inability to interfere. We can now clearly tell the world that we shouted and took all diplomatic options but no one cared so we used force. As i said we may even face economic and military sanctions but that is fine as long as we keep kashmir. Also the plebiscite will show the world we genuinely wanted the kashmiris to decide and not just annex it. We will face alot of loses and will damage us but thats the price we pay for Kashmir.

 

[Yaseen1]

U.n peace keeping force will implant isis to destroy Pakistan like they did in Syria and iraq.Blocking of sea seems difficult unless china support us and it will also halt our own oil supply