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Jinnah, secularism and Islamic modernism: YLH

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https://dailytimes.com.pk/736976/jin...mic-modernism/

On 7 February 1935 Mr. Jinnah declared “religion is a matter merely between man and god and should never be allowed in politics”. This was a life long position. In 1920 it was on this basis Jinnah had broken away from Gandhi, when the latter began using religion in politics.

What happened in the 12 years leading up to Partition is well known. As H M Seervai, the great Indian constitutional lawyer, wrote: It was Nehru and Patel who stood for partition and it was Mr Jinnah who stood for a United India. This is a statement from India’s finest constitutional lawyer who overturned the so called conventional wisdom on partition. If one carefully studies the Transfer of Power Papers and the work of Dr Ayesha Jalal it becomes clear as day that Jinnah tried till the very end to come to an honourable settlement with the Indian National Congress but his efforts were spurned. AG Noorani, Indian Supreme Court lawyer and journalist extraordinaire, has written in some detail about it and his arguments are unimpeachable.

Jinnah, the only politician to be called the Best Ambassador of Hindu Muslim Unity, was committed to secular polity all his life. Gokhale had said about him :

“Jinnah has true stuff in him, and that freedom from all sectarian prejudice which will make him the best ambassador of Hindu-Muslim Unity.” To argue that he suddenly turned into an Islamist is a terrible reduction of history. It is true that Jinnah did argue on several occasions after partition that the kind of state he had in mind, inclusive and democratic, was not in conflict with Shariat and this was a Muslim modernist’s vision. This was a vision that held that modern democracy and human rights were in perfect conformity with the spirit of Islam. Many famous Muslim figures have held this view since late 19th Century. Midhet Pasha, Sir Syed Ahmad Khan, Jamaluddin Afghani and Syed Ameer Ali amongst others were proponents of this view. Even Kemal Ataturk, addressing his followers from the pulpit in 1919 declared that Islam was a faith of reason and logic that did not stand in the way of modern republicanism. It was this quest that led Ataturk to commission a wholly Turkish translation of the Holy Quran to be distributed amongst the Turks in the early 1930s. Ataturk and Jinnah, leaders of predominantly Muslim majority nation states, had to couch their modernist ideas in language that was comprehensible to the common Muslims in their countries. Ataturk had explained this strategy in his famous 8 day speech in 1928 reversing his own policy having introduced a state religion in the Turkish Constitution in 1924.

Secularism means the impartiality of the state to religion. While it has been postulated as a complete separation of religion and state, even the US Supreme Court recognizes that at times religion has a secular purpose. Secular purpose jurisprudence holds that where religion serves a secular purpose, i.e. not primarily religious, cannot come at the expense of religious freedom of one group or another.

Consider the example of Great Britain. It is a secular state and yet the Anglican Church is woven into the British Constitution. All of the Scandinavian states similarly have Lutheranism built into their constitutional structure but in terms of secularism they are considered far more secular than United States of America. Sweden, Norway, Finland and Denmark do not have the kind of rigid separation of state that USA does and despite that US remains a far more religious country than these states. Secularism does not take one form. There is the French and US models, which stand in sharp contradiction to Britain, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland. Yet the latter are far more secular than the former, as I said earlier. This is one of life’s great mysteries that can be resolved only when we see the histories of these countries separately without reference to one model or the other.

That Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be a secular state is an undeniable fact whether Pakistanis or Indians deny it, for their own very different reasons. 4 days before Independence Jinnah had written to Lord Mountbatten to make changes to Pakistani oath of office. He had asked for the reference to God to be removed from his oath of office and also that of the ministers. Presumably this was because he did not want to set a precedent by which only believers would become the heads of states, prime ministers or ministers in the state. The alternative of course is that he himself was not a believer. Since Jinnah was an extremely private person who did not wear his religion on his sleeve, we will never know for sure. The second change was that the words “solemnly swear” were changed to “solemnly affirm”. The difference is something we lawyers are well aware. To swear is to swear to a deity such as God. To affirm does not do so. Interestingly Indian oaths of office retained both references. It is a searing irony that today Pakistan has an elaborate religious oath of office in complete contradiction to what Jinnah had wanted in 1947. It was not always like this. The first two constitutions of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan did not have state religions. In 1973 all of this changed when state religion was introduced. Jinnah would never have wanted that.

Then again contradicting Jinnah is a bit of a habit for Pakistanis. As I have written on numerous occasions, in 1944, in response to a question about Ahmadis, Jinnah had famously said “Who am I to declare someone a Non-Muslim, if he professes to be a Muslim”. We all know who his right hand man was. Sir Zafrullah Khan, Pakistan’s first Foreign Minister, was as devout an Ahmadi as they come. In complete contrast to this we passed the second amendment to the Constitution in 1974 declaring them Non-Muslim for the purposes of law and constitution. In 1984 the military dictator promulgated the ordinance XX which was entirely contradictory to the Constitution’s protections. This Ordinance violates not just Article 20 of the Constitution but also violates all laws of natural justice. Under this law Ahmadis’ places of worship are destroyed both by the mobs and the states and even their graves are desecrated. It is a strange law that prohibits the reading of the Quran and erases Kalimas from buildings. Had it been in any other country, our rulers would be crying out “Islamophobia”.

Regards

Jinnah is a massively misunderstood individual in all of South Asia,
truly a principled man.

But, just to be clear there are not just two nations but many multiple and dozens of nations in South Asia, creation of an Indian state is a new experiment because it has never existed in history.
It's high time everyone let go of the drama of so called "breakup", you cant breakup something that never exited, and start to work towards a peaceful future.
 
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Other than his(Jinnah's) obvious accomplishment, he would have garnered obvious secular acclaim had he accepted his (only)daughter's marriage with a zoro.
Instead he disowned her... his own daughter. There is no debate just verbal diarrhea.

Question today's seculars and ask them of this very "repugnant" act perhaps, would they disown their own kin for doing similar?
 
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But, just to be clear there are not just two nations but many multiple and dozens of nations in South Asia, creation of an Indian state is a new experiment because it has never existed in history.
It's high time everyone let go of the drama of so called "breakup", you cant breakup something that never exited, and start to work towards a peaceful future.
I have really began to enjoy your posts and the points you raise are simple but profound in their import. When I was young I led a year or two as a itinerant rolling across Europe along with eclectic bunch of misfits. Mostly university drop outs or burnt out types from demanding jobs. A ex banker and medical school drop out still come to my mind. This is early 1980s and Iron Curtain still stood so although we did venture across most of our 'rolling' was in Western Europe. What struck me is how similiar they were. A drive from Galway on west coast of Ireland, across to Britain, across the Channel, drive across France, Belgium, Holland, Germany etc was equivalent of the drive I did last year in Pakistan. You could as easily treat district Jhelum as Ireland, Potohar plateau as England, Swabi as Germany. Between Dublin, Ireland and Berlin/Warsaw, Poland there is less differance then between Karachi and Lahore/Peshawar.

South Asia or the British era sub-continent actually is more diverse genetically, religiously, climatically etc. Europe by comparison is just a boring lump of one religion and one civilization with only the Mediteranean giving a tint to the Euros.

The so called great partition f 1947only undid what had been done 98 years prior in 1849 when Britain conquered the Indus valley region.

This is British India 1785. Where is the tract that was partitioned? it's not even part of India.


1616596993301.png


Partition? What partition. Where is Pakistan?


1616598191503.png
 
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I have really began to enjoy your posts and the points you raise are simple but profound in their import. When I was young I led a year or two as a itinerant rolling across Europe along with eclectic bunch of misfits. Mostly university drop outs or burnt out types from demanding jobs. A ex banker and medical school drop out still come to my mind. This is early 1980s and Iron Curtain still stood so although we did venture across most of our 'rolling' was in Western Europe. What struck me is how similiar they were. A drive from Galway on west coast of Ireland, across to Britain, across the Channel, drive across France, Belgium, Holland, Germany etc was equivalent of the drive I did last year in Pakistan. You could as easily treat district Jhelum as Ireland, Potohar plateau as England, Swabi as Germany. Between Dublin, Ireland and Berlin/Warsaw, Poland there is less differance then between Karachi and Lahore/Peshawar.

South Asia or the British era sub-continent actually is more diverse genetically, religiously, climatically etc. Europe by comparison is just a boring lump of one religion and one civilization with only the Mediteranean giving a tint to the Euros.

The so called great partition f 1947only undid what had been done 98 years prior in 1849 when Britain conquered the Indus valley region.

This is British India 1785. Where is the tract that was partitioned? it's not even part of India.


View attachment 727616

Partition? What partition. Where is Pakistan?


View attachment 727628

Thank you for your kind words, logic and reason is simplicity personified. There are far too many Pakistanis here who try to sound clever but do not recognise 2+2 of worldly logic. There is a criminal habit among Pakistanis to view events in a singular format, they form opinions based on a particular event without taking into account other factors, the realities of the time, how other countries behave and so on. I try to keep it simple, it seems to work for me.

By recognising partition in our vocabulary we have given weight to a "historical" India, words matter because with their use you build an image and a realty in your mind, it matters not if it is real, it becomes real once it is accepted. Using the word "partition" among other things, we have weakened ourselves, but it is our intellectuals who are to blame because they have not offered a counter to the fantasy of "Bharat Mata".

Jinnah's religiosity is another thing people fight over and yet have failed to understand, one does not need to pray, not drink or any other practical religious steps to be Muslim, one does not need to step inside a mosque, have sex outside of marriage every day of their lives whilst drinking alcohol and eating pork and they will still be Muslims, it is extremely stupid to claim otherwise. Because the only thing required to be a Muslim is the belief in God and his book, with the finality of the prophet thrown in for good measure. Rest is between him/her and Allah.
Creating an effective and beautiful argument matters, because it sticks and it is hard to counter, for a creative argument one has to be honest with oneself first.

India is nothing more than a fantasy, forget the maps and everything else, it requires no proof, it has not been questioned thus far, but I love the fact I have come across Pakistanis for the first time in my life, here on PDF who are questioning. The existence of India is wrong on so many levels, although I support the unity of India right now lol, baring Kashmir. I dread to think what a world would look like with China as a superpower and only minnows to contend with, it will not be a pretty picture i can assure you.

I'm sure I've seen your pictures, you do not look old enough to have travelled around Europe in the 1980s, you are doing rather well, well done. I must admit to slight jealously at your travel history, I never get jealous except when it comes to travel, well less jealous, more awed by anyone who manages to travel well, I think it is a respectable pursuit. Stay blessed.
 
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India is nothing more than a fantasy, forget the maps and everything else, it requires no proof, it has not been questioned thus far, but I love the fact I have come across Pakistanis for the first time in my life, here on PDF who are questioning. The existence of India is wrong on so many levels, although I support the unity of India right now lol, baring Kashmir.
Every nation at its core is an idea. As long as that idea is seared in the minds of people in that nation, the nation is united and real.
If that idea withers, then it creates grounds for separatism. Ofcourse, Pakistanis subscribe to a different idea than Indians and hence they separated.
 
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Every nation at its core is an idea. As long as that idea is seared in the minds of people in that nation, the nation is united and real.
If that idea withers, then it creates grounds for separatism. Ofcourse, Pakistanis subscribe to a different idea than Indians and hence they separated.

That's exactly it, but when a claim is made to a historical past, that's a lie. The problem isn't with the modern concept of India, it's with the historical claim, especially when it is used to preach and spread hate.
 
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That's exactly it, but when a claim is made to a historical past, that's a lie. The problem isn't with the modern concept of India, it's with the historical claim, especially when it is used to preach and spread hate.
Thats our way of looking at history. We take strength from it to further unite our nation. Ofcourse spreading hate is not good by anyone.
 
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Thats our way of looking at history. We take strength from it to further unite our nation. Ofcourse spreading hate is not good by anyone.

I do recognise the reasons behind it, and I agree it is needed to keep India together, but it's good you recognise it should not be used to spread hate, which it is.
 
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Howver he used Islam as a tool. That is he saw religion as instrument to further his political project.
Jinnah might as easily have used some other tool then religion to articulate his political project
Modi has hit that golden formula and panders to Hindutva sentiments that has escalated him to top of the Indian political order.
do however think that Jinnah did use religon in a cynical way to get 1947
You can call names to Jinnah or Iqbal all day long and you can also worship Modi and other pagans anytime of the day but your whining won't stop the fact that Pakistan is an Islamic Republic and will remain forever.

@The Eagle this guy is openly calling abuses to founder of nation and comparing him with Modi. Kindly do the needful, please.
 
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This is very possible. Certainly nothing in his life suggests he was religious. Neither his attire, his clean shaven face, his penchent for fine living and cavorting with fire worshipping Parsi damsels and his only daughter growing up in India as a Parsi should tell us something. If a leader like him walked the streets in Pakistan today dressed like a gora country gent, poodling along with his dog, having as his lieutenant a sworn Ahmedi like Zafaraullah walking along he would be at risk of being lynched.

He can be that although he makes a fine and a sharp case for Jinnah the secular man. And it is hard not to agree with him given the person that Jinnah was. But here is the rub that YLH ignores. Jinnah did use religion in the most crude and explosive way. It was used as basis of Two Nation Theory. How can you claim secularism when your about to change entire political geography of South Asia basd on religion? This is akin to a teetotalar choosing his travel plans according to where the best wine bars are.

The entire premise of secularism is you do not look at public life through prism of religion. A secularist does not see Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Jew. He sees citizens. Jinnah however in the finality reduced his politics to Muslim versus Hindu. That is about as contra secularism as you can go.

However my own personal opinion is Jinnah was at best a lapsed Muslim if not a athiest. Howver he used Islam as a tool. That is he saw religion as instrument to further his political project. This is very cynical view but most politicians are that. They are not angels because politics is a dirty game.

Jinnah might as easily have used some other tool then religion to articulate his political project but in the South Asian milieu the easiest and lowest hanging fruit is religion. That is so true even today that even in Nehru's secular India is being increasingly used. Modi has hit that golden formula and panders to Hindutva sentiments that has escalated him to top of the Indian political order.

I do however think that Jinnah did use religon in a cynical way to get 1947 but after having achieved his goal he would have configured a secular state in Pakistan. If you look at his team it all points to diversity and pluralism. Unfortunately he died before he could flesh out the state.

The Pandora's box of religion opened by Jinnah then began to wreak havoc. Nobody was big enough to box it back. And 70 years later it has literally eaten the innards of the Pakistani state.

I believe he was religious in his personal life. It's sad that how religious a person is decided by what he wears on his sleeves. This perception needs to change.

We're all sinners, the important consideration is our belief and ability to return to God and correct ourselves every step of the way.

We were taught not to judge based on how a person looks on the outside, maybe there's a thing God loves and we don't know. But it's such a crucial principle of life and our religion which we have forgotton and thrown away.

Today, Islam primarily means how you dress, how many times a day you pray, and politics, and that's what it has been reduced to sadly.

Secondly, I seriously disagree with you. It's not as simple as black and white. When the other group wants to religiously discriminate, isolate and oppress, then your only solution is freedom and partition based on religion.

He had no political ambitions, the man struggled all his life just so that Muslims could have their freedom, from the British and from the Hindus. Both were oppressors.
Other than his(Jinnah's) obvious accomplishment, he would have garnered obvious secular acclaim had he accepted his (only)daughter's marriage with a zoro.
Instead he disowned her... his own daughter. There is no debate just verbal diarrhea.

Question today's seculars and ask them of this very "repugnant" act perhaps, would they disown their own kin for doing similar?

The thing is that was his personal business and belief. He wouldn't bring this religious principle into politics in the form of religious restrictions on marriage.

And that's one of the things which defines secularism. You don't have to be irreligious to support secularism.
 
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