Japanese Imperial Navy's Akagi - found - Deep sea footage of shipwreck

[Ali_Baba]

Battle of Midway shipwreck images reveal clues about 'final moments'

Deep sea explorers have obtained highly detailed images of three iconic shipwrecks from World War II's Battle of Midway in the Pacific Ocean including a Japanese aircraft carrier not seen since 1942.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Gomig-21]

Battle of Midway shipwreck images reveal clues about 'final moments'

Deep sea explorers have obtained highly detailed images of three iconic shipwrecks from World War II's Battle of Midway in the Pacific Ocean including a Japanese aircraft carrier not seen since 1942.

www.dailymail.co.uk

You beat me to it lol. I was just going to open a thread on this incredible exploration and discovery, but then I figured let me check the naval warfare section juuuuuussst in case lol. Good stuff.

Incredible that it's 3 miles deep. They could still identify many of its features like the chrysanthemum on the royal emblem of the bow. The island/tower and the particular 30mm guns it had that they decided to keep on it once it was converted from a battleship to a carrier.

The other thing that was interesting (beside the known fact that it was the Japanese imperial navy's flagship and admiral Nagumo's base of operations for the attack on Pearl Harbor and this battle) and that he stayed on it until he was persuaded to evacuate was that it didn't sink immediately. It was only after the 1000lb bomb that was dropped on it by a USN Dauntless dive bomber exploded and shredded a massive hole in the deck and detonated the rest of the stored and open ammunition that started the uncontrollable fires throughout the carrier for another 24+ hours. It took out the fire-suppression system, crippling the fire-fighting crew. They couldn't put out any of the fires and the deck was inoperable for takeoffs and landings.

In the case of the Yorktown -- which also sank in this battle -- they were able to save it the first time it was hit. It was salvaged the first time due to the difference between the two fire crews, their training, the design of the fire suppression system as well as miscommunicating back to the base of operations made huge differences in the result of this historic, naval battle. The Japanese thought they had destroyed two American carriers when it was only the Yorktown that was hit twice. That was critical since it gave the Japanese a false sense of security and made them relax more than they should have. The Americans won more of these smaller battles within the war which ultimately gave it the victory.

Contrary to popular belief, the Akagi didn't sink from the bombings. It was pretty much destroyed from the bombing, but it stayed afloat & burning for 24+ hours until the following day when the Japanese decided to scuttle the carrier and had one of their destroyers fire its big guns into the hull to finally sink it so the Americans wouldn't capture it.

Between the defending A6M Zeros and the carriers zig-zagging and turning circles, it's truly a miracle that the USN fighter-bombers were able to destroy all 4 carriers in less than 10 minutes! What a devastating defeat.

Many people think it was pure luck, but it was a combination of both, luck & willpower. Even more so was the better all-around aviation and recon skills of the Americans combined with undefinable bravery. Many of those pilots knew it was a one-way mission and had no chance of making it back. Yet they took on their duties like soldiers.

Even though the Yorktown looked like a battleship that was later converted to a carrier, it wasn't. The Yorktown was the leading ship of that class and designed & built specifically as a carrier based on the previous Lexington class ships which were battlecruisers converted to carriers.

Much easier to see how the Japanese converted their battleships to carriers in this pic of the Kaga.

The battle of Midway is one of -- if not -- THE most fascinating wartime battles in the history of modern warfare. Many historians claim there will never be another naval battle of this magnitude. Although conventional wisdom will tell us to never say never, I mostly tend to agree with that assessment.

BTW, this discovery of the Akagi was actually in 2019. I think they just released this new video and incredible photos. The aura of this discovery is as familiar as it was to that of the Titanic.

 

[WudangMaster]

I wonder if this ship is made of the kind of steel that a certain big country has been grave robbing the Pacific for...

 

[Gomig-21]

I wonder if this ship is made of the kind of steel that a certain big country has been grave robbing the Pacific for...

It's possible. The embargo imposed by the United States at the time covered most raw materials, so steel was certainly part of that restriction though oil was the primary resource Japan was running out of and having a tough time acquiring.

The timing would need to be checked. Not sure if the Akagi's construction would've been affected by the embargo, but it was built in 1938 under the Washington Naval Treaty terms which IIRC forced them to change the way they wanted to originally build it.

 

[aziqbal]

I still do not understand why Japan was sailing 4 carriers so close to each other

They had wireless and radio they could have co-ordinated the synchronized the aircraft take off miles from each other

 

[WudangMaster]

It's possible. The embargo imposed by the United States at the time covered most raw materials, so steel was certainly part of that restriction though oil was the primary resource Japan was running out of and having a tough time acquiring.

The timing would need to be checked. Not sure if the Akagi's construction would've been affected by the embargo, but it was built in 1938 under the Washington Naval Treaty terms which IIRC forced them to change the way they wanted to originally build it.

If it was built in 1938, that steel will be highly sought after. I recently found out that all steel made after the atomic age began cannot be used for certain very sensitive scientific instruments. That's why a certain big country in the pacific is dredging up the remains of these vessels for their steel. There was a British ship that was recently plundered and that ship was officially an underwater graveyard. Steel made before 1945 is called low background steel and all steel made after the first detonation of nuclear weapons cannot used for certain applications!

 

[Gomig-21]

If it was built in 1938, that steel will be highly sought after. I recently found out that all steel made after the atomic age began cannot be used for certain very sensitive scientific instruments. That's why a certain big country in the pacific is dredging up the remains of these vessels for their steel. There was a British ship that was recently plundered and that ship was officially an underwater graveyard. Steel made before 1945 is called low background steel and all steel made after the first detonation of nuclear weapons cannot used for certain applications!

I just rechecked it and the Akagi (or "Red Castle" in Japanese) was built in 1920 as a battlecruiser, not 1938. My bad. Two years later, it was converted into an aircraft carrier. So it was 1920-22. My first post was incorrect just to set the record straight. Not sure if that timing corelates to them having that particular steel you're referring to. But that's interesting as heck.

"A certain big country in the Pacific" I'm assuming you're referring to the US? And the British ship that's an underwater graveyard is which one? Not the Titanic!? I'd like to know more about this pls share.

I still do not understand why Japan was sailing 4 carriers so close to each other

They had wireless and radio they could have co-ordinated the synchronized the aircraft take off miles from each other

Yeah they certainly made their share of mistakes and blunders. Biggest one was underestimating the strength of the United States, although Yamamoto always knew they were jumping into a hornet's nest.

Aside from their mistakes, their overconfidence also played a huge part in their demise. The Japanese failure was a string of successive mistakes. Overconfidence from their massive & successful invasions leading up to Midway was a major contributor.

They must've realized how frightening it was to the United States, Britain and the rest of the gang when they ended up conquering the entire western half of the Pacific from the Gilbert & Soloman Islands in the southeast to Sumatra & Burma in the southwest including the Philippines up to eastern China & Manchuria and all the way up north as far as the Aleutian Islands near Alaska! Much of that was done in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor leading up to the battle of Midway (only 6 months!) No wonder the Australians were freaking out.

At its peak, Japanese-controlled territory reached 8,510,000 km2. That's over 2-1/2 times the size of Nazi Germany's occupied territory (which was around 3.250,000 km2) and 3 times the size of the entire United States.

Japanese reconnaissance was a total and complete failure. The difference between them and the US scout planes was probably the main reason why they lost this battle. Spotting the enemy and knowing where they are made all the difference in the end.

As far as the carriers being close, they messed that up too. They were supposed to be somewhat in a tight formation with both task forces, so their ships weren't scattered all over the ocean giving the US or Australians a better chance to locate them. But some of their escort carriers and cruisers couldn't keep pace with the 4 large carriers that they purposely trailed so they wouldn't slow the latter down. That also worked against them.

One of those trailing destroyers was discovered by Wade McClusky. That led them to the Hiryu which was the 4th carrier. That was the attack made famous in the movie when Dick Best and 3 other pilots dove from 11,000ft in their Dauntless dive bombers and pounced on it with their 1000 lbs. bombs.

Those two pilots were amongst the better-known ones of the war along with George Bush senior of course who flew the TB Grumman Avenger. He was shot down but survived and was rescued during the attack on Chichijima.

The same with John F. Kennedy who also fought in the Pacific war although he was a PT-109 captain. His boat was plowed in half by a Japanese destroyer and he ended up saving all his men (except for 2 I think). What he did to save them and the way he got them food by swimming back and forth from island to island and hailing the rescue party made him a bigtime war hero. That helped him win the presidency. He's the only US president who ever won the purple heart.

 

[WudangMaster]

I just rechecked it and the Akagi (or "Red Castle" in Japanese) was built in 1920 as a battlecruiser, not 1938. My bad. Two years later, it was converted into an aircraft carrier. So it was 1920-22. My first post was incorrect just to set the record straight. Not sure if that timing corelates to them having that particular steel you're referring to. But that's interesting as heck.

"A certain big country in the Pacific" I'm assuming you're referring to the US? And the British ship that's an underwater graveyard is which one? Not the Titanic!? I'd like to know more about this pls share.

Chinese ship accused of looting iconic WWII shipwrecks

An illegal Chinese salvage operation is suspected to have raided two iconic World War II wrecks.

www.militarytimes.com

It was china going after 2 British WW2 wrecks for that particular steel.

So it turns out that because of open air detonations of atomic weapons, there is a fair amount of cobalt 60 in the atmosphere that ends up in minute quantities in steel during manufacturing. There is a way to make steel that isn't adulterated but it's expensive, more expensive than going after pre 1945 steel.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Chinese ship accused of looting iconic WWII shipwrecks

An illegal Chinese salvage operation is suspected to have raided two iconic World War II wrecks.

www.militarytimes.com

It was china going after 2 British WW2 wrecks for that particular steel.

So it turns out that because of open air detonations of atomic weapons, there is a fair amount of cobalt 60 in the atmosphere that ends up in minute quantities in steel during manufacturing. There is a way to make steel that isn't adulterated but it's expensive, more expensive than going after pre 1945 steel.

you mean. Is China salvaging British shipwrecks to find British steel?

What I mean is. China is the world's largest producer of shipbuilding and steel.

So can we keep British talk shows in the British?

5,000 Faults Recorded On Type 45 Destroyers

Britain's most modern warships have suffered more than 5,000 defects since launching, Government records show. The Type 45 destroyers, which cost £1 b

www.forces.net

 

[WudangMaster]

you mean. Is China salvaging British shipwrecks to find British steel?

What I mean is. China is the world's largest producer of shipbuilding and steel.

So can we keep British talk shows in the British?

5,000 Faults Recorded On Type 45 Destroyers

Britain's most modern warships have suffered more than 5,000 defects since launching, Government records show. The Type 45 destroyers, which cost £1 b

www.forces.net

Baba to digeh az posht kodoom kooh aamadi?

 

[Gomig-21]

Chinese ship accused of looting iconic WWII shipwrecks

An illegal Chinese salvage operation is suspected to have raided two iconic World War II wrecks.

www.militarytimes.com

It was china going after 2 British WW2 wrecks for that particular steel.

So it turns out that because of open air detonations of atomic weapons, there is a fair amount of cobalt 60 in the atmosphere that ends up in minute quantities in steel during manufacturing. There is a way to make steel that isn't adulterated but it's expensive, more expensive than going after pre 1945 steel.

You would think that pumping in pure oxygen during the melting of iron ore to make steel would be a lot less expensive than sending out huge salvage ships to retrieve sunken battle and merchant ships from the abysses of the Atlantic & Pacific oceans that you would still have to melt anyway to recreate the shapes of the new products you want. Crazy.

 

[Gomig-21]

It was china going after 2 British WW2 wrecks for that particular steel.

So it turns out that because of open air detonations of atomic weapons, there is a fair amount of cobalt 60 in the atmosphere that ends up in minute quantities in steel during manufacturing. There is a way to make steel that isn't adulterated but it's expensive, more expensive than going after pre 1945 steel.

I was having a neat discussion with my son and some of his friends about what you said here regarding China salvaging these shipwrecks for the purer steel in them. They were fascinated but then my son brought up a very good point and that was if they actually have a way to test the wreckage steel with portable testers of some kind before spending the hundreds of millions of dollars to recover those ships. His reasoning was that didn't the US -- and even Russian if I'm not mistaken -- detonate several nuclear bombs in the Pacific Ocean during their prolific nuclear bombs testing that proceeded the war. It was a good point since they did use a lot of their retired ships to test the effects of nuclear detonations on them and if they would be sunk. Undoubtedly that spreads all sorts of radiation over the surface and into the water etc. But they all found the concept of finding that purer steel fascinating.

That war produced a crazy number of sunken ships it's probably a lot more than any of us could imagine. Between all the battleships, carriers, submarines but particularly merchant ships since they were easy targets for Japanese subs and even German U-boats in the Atlantic.