J-11D

[Skull and Bones]

The J-11D's combination of large AESA radar and ramjet powered PL-12D will allow it to dominate BVR combat. That means first-look, first-shot, first-kill. Only the stealth fighters will be better. People need to understand that WVR combat (dogfighting) is nothing more than a crapshoot. Even a MiG-21 has a chance in a dogfight. Furthermore, the prevalence of HMD and HOBS missiles in many modern fighters make going into a dogfight more dangerous than ever.

Even the F-22 loses its advantages in a dogfight.

Report: F-22 Raptor Loses $79 Billion Advantage in Dogfights - ABC News

The main purpose of F-22 is solely not to enter into a dogfight.

 

[Viper0011.]

The main purpose of F-22 is solely not to enter into a dogfight.

That's incorrect. Someone decided to put many millions of dollars into R&D, just to put a canon into the -22 so it can remain stealthy as the canon opens fire. And I can't imagine a plane costing like a quarter billion would allow pilot to play video games where he or she can use the canon for the fun of it.

The -22 is an air superiority / air dominance fighter. Its objectives are to get in, take out the enemy AD whether radars, SAMS or jets and allow the friendlies to really rule the sky like their own. In that regards, using longer range BVR weapons, just like any modern jets, chances are that it won't be seen or come into close contact.

But that's not to say it can't happen and its sole purpose was to stay hidden or distant. It'll get into a dog fight where need be. But knowing the longer range BVR weapons, the likelihood of gun fight is small.

 

[Brainsucker]

That's incorrect. Someone decided to put many millions of dollars into R&D, just to put a canon into the -22 so it can remain stealthy as the canon opens fire. And I can't imagine a plane costing like a quarter billion would allow pilot to play video games where he or she can use the canon for the fun of it.

The -22 is an air superiority / air dominance fighter. Its objectives are to get in, take out the enemy AD whether radars, SAMS or jets and allow the friendlies to really rule the sky like their own. In that regards, using longer range BVR weapons, just like any modern jets, chances are that it won't be seen or come into close contact.

But that's not to say it can't happen and its sole purpose was to stay hidden or distant. It'll get into a dog fight where need be. But knowing the longer range BVR weapons, the likelihood of gun fight is small.

Not longer, but accurate.

 

[antonius123]

Do I compare both fighters? I just say that SU-30MK2V can bite. I don't want to compare fighter to fighter in here, because that will only put us into fanboy vs fanboy pointless debate. Plus, we don't know those fighters personally, and we don't have any knowledge about them. So we don't have the right to compare and then judge their capability. Patriotism has it's limit. Sometime, you can't judge something just based on your patriotism alone.

But you have been comparing both of them in your post #80, when explaining engagement between SU30MK2V with J-11D, and believing that the only reason PLAF will win is merely by number.

 

[Brainsucker]

But you have been comparing both of them in your post #80, when explaining engagement between SU30MK2V with J-11D, and believing that the only reason PLAF will win is merely by number.

You wrong. i didn't compare both aircrafts. I compare Vietnam and China. I said that for Vietnam lost 10 SU-30MK2V will give them greater impact than the PLAAF to lost 20 J-11D. That's simply because that PRC. as a Nation is much-much powerful than Vietnam. I didn't say that for each 10 SU-30MK2V, China will lost 20 J-11D. No, not at all. Because I don't know which is better. The Vietnam SU-30MK2V or China J-11D.

But I know that if China lost 20 J-11D, they can replace the lost in a year time. Or maybe if not J-11D, they will have already have J-11E (thanks for their money, resource, technology and industry). While for Vietnam to lost 10 SU-30MK2V, I don't know when they can replace their lost fighters.

 

[antonius123]

You wrong. i didn't compare both aircrafts. I compare Vietnam and China. I said that for Vietnam lost 10 SU-30MK2V will give them greater impact than the PLAAF to lost 20 J-11D. That's simply because that PRC. as a Nation is much-much powerful than Vietnam. I didn't say that for each 10 SU-30MK2V, China will lost 20 J-11D. No, not at all. Because I don't know which is better. The Vietnam SU-30MK2V or China J-11D.

But I know that if China lost 20 J-11D, they can replace the lost in a year time. Or maybe if not J-11D, they will have already have J-11E (thanks for their money, resource, technology and industry). While for Vietnam to lost 10 SU-30MK2V, I don't know when they can replace their lost fighters.

No body know the reality about which one is better between them, but on paper i would say J-11D is significantly more capable than SU-30MK2V. So even if both china and vietnam has equal numbers of the plane, assuming the supporting and pilot skill almost the same, the answer will be clear who will have edge.

 

[Beast]

No body know the reality about which one is better between them, but on paper i would say J-11D is significantly more capable than SU-30MK2V. So even if both china and vietnam has equal numbers of the plane, assuming the supporting and pilot skill almost the same, the answer will be clear who will have edge.

One is AESA with airframe made by 3D printer while others with Doppler pulse and old times welding airframe. Enough say.

 

[antonius123]

One is AESA with airframe made by 3D printer while others with Doppler pulse and old times welding airframe. Enough say.

Exactly - agree on the significat advantage of next gen AESA, not to mention the BVRAAM that J-11D bring - will ensure the air dominance against the rest of 4.5 gen air fighters.

But please enlighten me how the 3D printed airframe would perform better compared to the welded airframe?

 

[Beast]

Exactly - agree on the significat advantage of next gen AESA, not to mention the BVRAAM that J-11D bring - will ensure the air dominance against the rest of 4.5 gen air fighters.

But please enlighten me how the 3D printed airframe would perform better compared to the welded airframe?

3D printer eliminates welding and ensure the parts come in one whole piece, meaning it can used lesser material but same structure strength. That means lighter weight achieving the same effect. Most parts failed at welding area and as whole piece, it will mean stronger for parts produce by 3D printer.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

I have read in another thread that a fighter jet needs a powerful power plant to have an AESA radar (for example - JF-17 needs WS13 engine to carry the AESA radar).

What is the connection between a powerful engine and an AESA radar on the fighter jet ?

Is it to do with the energy / electricity needed to do the calculations per second ?

 

[Viper0011.]

Not longer, but accurate.

Longer is the most important thing actually and the most strategic advantage too. In today's world, every weapon designed for fifth gen jets has to be "accurate" otherwise you wasted and lost hundreds of million in R&D for no reason.

So at this point, for countries like the United States, the precision and accuracy for weapons designed for 4th, 4.5th any 5th gen jets is a must have.

Here, for the -22, you are talking about it staying at a BVR level and taking the enemies out, as a primary purpose. Remember, the current FLIR and other imaging, can see stealthy jets from 20-30 miles even if they were stealthy. So longer range munitions over come that issue all together. Stealth means, hit and kill while either you were not seen, or you were seen but it was already too late for the enemy to do something about you.

 

[Brainsucker]

Longer is the most important thing actually and the most strategic advantage too. In today's world, every weapon designed for fifth gen jets has to be "accurate" otherwise you wasted and lost hundreds of million in R&D for no reason.

So at this point, for countries like the United States, the precision and accuracy for weapons designed for 4th, 4.5th any 5th gen jets is a must have.

Here, for the -22, you are talking about it staying at a BVR level and taking the enemies out, as a primary purpose. Remember, the current FLIR and other imaging, can see stealthy jets from 20-30 miles even if they were stealthy. So longer range munitions over come that issue all together. Stealth means, hit and kill while either you were not seen, or you were seen but it was already too late for the enemy to do something about you.

But, what if it's miss?
Missile A has a range of 100 km but lack of accuracy while Missile B has only 80 km but accurate. I think I will put my money on Missile B.

 

[Deino]

OK, but didn't find any Rafale vs J10B/C side by side comparison on Google either.

I have only these two !

 

[cirr]

THE J-11D SURPRISE: CHINA UPGRADES RUSSIAN FLANKER FIGHTERS ON ITS OWN

J-11D'S FIRST FLIGHT

By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer Posted Yesterday at 8:00pm

J-11D weibo.com The J-11D had its first flight on April 29, 2015 at a SAC airfield. It's most notable feature is its AESA radar, which is obvious thanks to its upwardly canted radar dome.

In a surprise development, the J-11D "D1101" prototype flew its first flight on April 29, 2015. The J-11D is the latest in Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC)'s family fighters licensed and modified from the Russian Sukhoi Su-27 "Flanker." SAC has built well over 200 Su-27 and J-11s, such as the licensed produced J-11A and indigenously upgraded J-11B, which had better engines and radar, and a lighter airframe. It is possible that improvements from other Chinese Flanker variants, like the J-15 carrier fighter and J-16 strike fighter, have been applied to the J-11D.

J-11D Flying Eagle Eye The J-11D Flanker fighter is the latest Flanker variant, and with an AESA radar, may be even more advanced that its Russian counterpart, the Su-35.

The J-11D's most noticeable upgrade is an upwardly canted radar dome, which carries an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, as well as further use of composites and stealth coatings in the fuselage to reduce weight. The fighter's Infrared Search and Tracking (IRST) pod has been relocated starboard of the cockpit, to accommodate a retractable inflight refueling (IFR) probe. The J-11D is also believed to have improved weapons hardpoints to carry the latest Chinese weapons, such as the PL-10 air to air missile, long range PL-21 missile and YJ-12 antiship missile.

Chinese AESA Hongjian at China Defense Forum China's defense industry has become very proficient at building AESA radars, such as those found on the KJ-2000 AEW&C aircraft, Type 052C destroyer, HQ-9 SAM and these fighter AESA radars. The middle one, which is built for the J-16 strike fighter, has 1760 transmit/receive elements. The J-11D's radar is likely to be an improved model f the J-16's AESA radar, optimized for air to air combat.

The J-11D's upgrades allow it to take full advantage of new PLAAF capabilities, and in turn, extend those capabilities further. For example, the IFR probe would enable aerial refueling from an Il-78 tanker, extending both the aerial patrol time and range of the fighter. The AESA radar offers key advantages over older, conventionally scanned radar; it's more resistant against electronic jamming, offers higher resolution when targetting stealthy aircraft, and has greater range. The J-11D's datalinks would enable it to share its radar data with other Chinese aircraft and ships. The J-11D's greater weapons payload would include long range weapons that could then be guided by other systems with longer ranged sensors, like the KJ-500 airborne early warning radar plane.

Divine Eagle Hunts Hongjian via China Defense Forum The offensive applications of the Divine Eagle are demonstrated here, as two Divine Eagles mark out not just the enemy aircraft carrier, but also its escorting warships and aviation wing, while vectoring friendly aircraft and ships into combat. The J-11D's radar and datalink would enable the fighter to transmit its radar data to other Chinese aircraft, robots and ships as part of integrated combat operations.

The J-11D's first flight is especially interesting given persistent rumors about impending Chinese purchases of the Su-35, the most modern Russian Flanker model. Ironically, the Su-35 uses a passive electronically scanned array (PESA) radar, which is an older and generally less flexible technology. Further flights like this indicate a shift is at hand, as advancing Chinese technology might be killing the Su-35's China sale chances.

http://www.popsci.com/j-11d-surprise-china-upgrades-russian-flanker-fighters-its-own

 

[Akasa]

THE J-11D SURPRISE: CHINA UPGRADES RUSSIAN FLANKER FIGHTERS ON ITS OWN

J-11D'S FIRST FLIGHT

By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer Posted Yesterday at 8:00pm

J-11D weibo.com The J-11D had its first flight on April 29, 2015 at a SAC airfield. It's most notable feature is its AESA radar, which is obvious thanks to its upwardly canted radar dome.

In a surprise development, the J-11D "D1101" prototype flew its first flight on April 29, 2015. The J-11D is the latest in Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC)'s family fighters licensed and modified from the Russian Sukhoi Su-27 "Flanker." SAC has built well over 200 Su-27 and J-11s, such as the licensed produced J-11A and indigenously upgraded J-11B, which had better engines and radar, and a lighter airframe. It is possible that improvements from other Chinese Flanker variants, like the J-15 carrier fighter and J-16 strike fighter, have been applied to the J-11D.

J-11D Flying Eagle Eye The J-11D Flanker fighter is the latest Flanker variant, and with an AESA radar, may be even more advanced that its Russian counterpart, the Su-35.

The J-11D's most noticeable upgrade is an upwardly canted radar dome, which carries an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, as well as further use of composites and stealth coatings in the fuselage to reduce weight. The fighter's Infrared Search and Tracking (IRST) pod has been relocated starboard of the cockpit, to accommodate a retractable inflight refueling (IFR) probe. The J-11D is also believed to have improved weapons hardpoints to carry the latest Chinese weapons, such as the PL-10 air to air missile, long range PL-21 missile and YJ-12 antiship missile.

Chinese AESA Hongjian at China Defense Forum China's defense industry has become very proficient at building AESA radars, such as those found on the KJ-2000 AEW&C aircraft, Type 052C destroyer, HQ-9 SAM and these fighter AESA radars. The middle one, which is built for the J-16 strike fighter, has 1760 transmit/receive elements. The J-11D's radar is likely to be an improved model f the J-16's AESA radar, optimized for air to air combat.

The J-11D's upgrades allow it to take full advantage of new PLAAF capabilities, and in turn, extend those capabilities further. For example, the IFR probe would enable aerial refueling from an Il-78 tanker, extending both the aerial patrol time and range of the fighter. The AESA radar offers key advantages over older, conventionally scanned radar; it's more resistant against electronic jamming, offers higher resolution when targetting stealthy aircraft, and has greater range. The J-11D's datalinks would enable it to share its radar data with other Chinese aircraft and ships. The J-11D's greater weapons payload would include long range weapons that could then be guided by other systems with longer ranged sensors, like the KJ-500 airborne early warning radar plane.

Divine Eagle Hunts Hongjian via China Defense Forum The offensive applications of the Divine Eagle are demonstrated here, as two Divine Eagles mark out not just the enemy aircraft carrier, but also its escorting warships and aviation wing, while vectoring friendly aircraft and ships into combat. The J-11D's radar and datalink would enable the fighter to transmit its radar data to other Chinese aircraft, robots and ships as part of integrated combat operations.

The J-11D's first flight is especially interesting given persistent rumors about impending Chinese purchases of the Su-35, the most modern Russian Flanker model. Ironically, the Su-35 uses a passive electronically scanned array (PESA) radar, which is an older and generally less flexible technology. Further flights like this indicate a shift is at hand, as advancing Chinese technology might be killing the Su-35's China sale chances.

http://www.popsci.com/j-11d-surprise-china-upgrades-russian-flanker-fighters-its-own

The J-15 is expected to undergo the same upgrades, no?