Italy delivering surplus self-propelled howitzers to Pakistan Army

[Gryphon]

lol Humari govt. bhi har jaga mufta lagane ki kohshish main rehti hai.

These have been purchased from surplus stocks, and before delivery undergo refurbishment at one of Leonardo's facilities. Not free.

From what I see,

152 M109A2 (8 regiments) are divided between 2x Armd. Div. (6 reg) and 2x Strike Corps IABG (2 reg).

115 M109A5 (6 regiments) are with 2x Mech. Div.

91 M109L (5 regiments) will probably go to 5x IABG.

So, thats M109 for 7x IABG, with 1x IABG yet to be equipped.

It is rumoured Pakistan is to receive the final batch, but Army intends to double M109L inventory. This could result in purchase of roughly 100 additional pcs.

 

[HAIDER]

lol Humari govt. bhi har jaga mufta lagane ki kohshish main rehti hai.

Lot of left over scatter in NATO countries and they have no use or they don't want to spend money to dispose off. They inform interested parties, and seems Pakistan army enlisted on all those programs . That's how they end up in Pakistan hand. Because when they dispose off any equipment, they also get rid of parts and or any other leftover. Pakistan pay the whole transportation cost. Just like after Iraq-US first war, Pakistan got 200 Iraqi tanks for free, only paid the cost of transportation.

 

[Signalian]

Just like after Iraq-US first war, Pakistan got 200 Iraqi tanks for free, only paid the cost of transportation.

which ones?

 

[Super Falcon]

pakistan army has these guns already why buy same gun with little upgradation why cant we buy next generation gun with better fire power and better surviability rate

 

[GriffinsRule]

pakistan army has these guns already why buy same gun with little upgradation why cant we buy next generation gun with better fire power and better surviability rate

Price...

 

[HAIDER]

which ones?

If I am not wrong those were T59 , if you search from your source.

 

[Dazzler]

Lot of left over scatter in NATO countries and they have no use or they don't want to spend money to dispose off. They inform interested parties, and seems Pakistan army enlisted on all those programs . That's how they end up in Pakistan hand. Because when they dispose off any equipment, they also get rid of parts and or any other leftover. Pakistan pay the whole transportation cost. Just like after Iraq-US first war, Pakistan got 200 Iraqi tanks for free, only paid the cost of transportation.

They are not buying scrap, rather Italian modified/ upgraded pieces with either equal or in some cases, better performances than a baseline A2 model. The M-109L has several mods as explained here earlier and the price is too good to be true. They dont need it, but we do, thanks to the ever volatile situation in the region. They may come in handy in case someone tries to implement the cold start.

Also. since PA is already hunting for a new arty system, inducting capable and dirt cheap M-109Ls in numbers may be the best stop gap option available.

As for Iraqi tanks, never heard that story. Care to explain which ones made way here as Iraqi armour had questionable performance as well as specs.

 

[HAIDER]

They are not buying scrap, rather Italian modified/ upgraded pieces with either equal or in some cases, better performances than a baseline A2 model. The M-109L has several mods as explained here earlier and the price is too good to be true. They dont need it, but we do, thanks to the ever volatile situation in the region. They may come in handy in case someone tries to implement the cold start.

Also. since PA is already hunting for a new arty system, inducting capable and dirt cheap M-109Ls in numbers may be the best stop gap option available.

As for Iraqi tanks, never heard that story. Care to explain which ones made way here as Iraqi armour had questionable performance as well as specs.

Yes, I mention this in my previous post. But here is a view of one of Italian army boneyard. Where a good working equipment is rest for rust.

 

[Super Falcon]

what price i dont understand what you want to say by price

 

[Mujahid Memon]

What is the difference bw this and a tank?

 

[HAIDER]

What is the difference bw this and a tank?

Self Propelled Howitzer is an evolution of the Artillery piece. Most arty pieces are stationary guns (Usually 120 to 155mm for NATO countries, and 152mm seems the right number for warsaw pact) mounted on carts of sorts. These are used to provide indirect fire (I.E. firing over a hill, or from behind the "frontlines" to support armor and infantry attacks) They're effective for killing tanks and infantry and buildings from the rear, but on the front they are vulnerable to just about
The Self Propelled Howitzer is everything its name implies, its one of the aforementioned artillery pieces, with engines and either wheels or tracks. This was a WWII invention, as normal Artillery pieces could not keep up with the Blitzkrieg offensives and support their advances. By making it mobile, they allow the artillery piece to keep up with the armored formations as they move through the landscape, bringing along heavier fire power.
Make no mistake, they are not fast, maneuverable, as well armored as a modern MBT. THey are considered a different school of vehicle, artillery, which almost all modern commanders will keep in the rear of an attack away from enemies, and use to harass enemy strong points, I.E. A mechanized devisions HQ or laager, an enemy bunker or trench line, or a city where the enemy is taking cover.

 

[JPMM]

If you are or were part of artillery, you would know about rapid deployment of towed guns.

The amount of calculations done in mapping and firing is the main task; keeping in view movement of earth along its axis, gases in chamber and gases in different layers of the earth's atmosphere, the wind direction and speed at different heights from the ground, the temperature of the atmosphere and the gun (breech) etc.
and the role of FOO/FAO is even complex.

Artillery officers are a different breed of officers, they make pin point calculations and get into details of all affairs they encounter. You are very lucky if you have a junior artillery officer in your staff, as he will take care of all details for you however you will have a tough time if you have a senior artillery officer as he will want details of everything from you.

This is why the word of even a 2nd-Lt from Artillery Corps carries more weightage than that of an infantry officer, because the 2nd Lt will be speaking from calculations , his word will be based on logic from the book. He doesn't have ammunition to expend freely, every round counts and time is always of the essence.

Musharraf was an artillery officer, when handling civilian affairs like railways, irrigation etc, he would get into details of everything and then plan out a structure for solving an issue. He would start by generating history report and move on from that date wise. I am not his fan, I am just stating how an artillery officer tackles things.

The way i see your posts @JPMM , you like going in details just like an artillery man should

No. I spent 3 years in Infantry Battalion on Azores Islands and 2 years in the 4th Cavalry Regiment (M60A3TTS at that tyme). I was the equivalente to your REME detachment.
In Portugal we have an old say "God save us from our own artillery, and we will take care of the enemy"
Thanks

 

[fitpOsitive]

Yes, I mention this in my previous post. But here is a view of one of Italian army boneyard. Where a good working equipment is rest for rust.

This is what happens with military equipment. People suffered, while govt was paying weapon dealers. This equipment now of no use, while whatever happened to people is irreversible.
That's why I always speak againt wars. They are nothing but useless for common people.

 

[JPMM]

Typically a heavy/medium artillary regiment has between 18-24 guns or 3-4 batteries with 6 guns per battery

I was roung before!
12x M109+6 towed 130mm
12x M198

+6 towed 130mm​

Thanks​

 

[Dazzler]

Yes, I mention this in my previous post. But here is a view of one of Italian army boneyard. Where a good working equipment is rest for rust.

It seems you are having a hard time in differentiating between surplus stocks comprising of "running" equipment and those stored in the boneyard to be scrapped.