ISPR song reveals position of Indian Submarine detected off Karachi

[ghazi768]

How did it know it had been detected?

The first instance of developing a crude RWR for snorkels was I think near the end of world war 2. German u-boats which had snorkels installed were also provided with a crude detection device, it was linked to a, I think some sort of light bulb, sensor which will glow more depending upon strength of a radar signal. Operators of that device were said to predict accurately about when their sub had been detected.
It will be surprising if Kilo is not equipped with some type of RWR when it is snorkelling or periscope out.

Lets not get into whether it was an Indian sub or not, useless debate. But if it was an Indian one, than our side had reasons to celebrate as well as send a message across.. an Indian kilo will have a range of about 600 km on battery power at best and that will result in a radius lower than 300 km. Being able to detect Indian subs snorkelling at 300+ km is big thing in tactical terms.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The first instance of developing a crude RWR for snorkels was I think near the end of world war 2. German u-boats which had snorkels installed were also provided with a crude detection device, it was linked to a, I think some sort of light bulb, sensor which will glow more depending upon strength of a radar signal. Operators of that device were said to predict accurately about when their sub had been detected.
It will be surprising if Kilo is not equipped with some type of RWR when it is snorkelling or periscope out.

Lets not get into whether it was an Indian sub or not, useless debate. But if it was an Indian one, than our side had reasons to celebrate as well as send a message across.. an Indian kilo will have a range of about 600 km on battery power at best and that will result in a radius lower than 300 km. Being able to detect Indian subs snorkelling at 300+ km is big thing in tactical terms.

Very useful, thanks.

This conversation takes me back 18 years. We were trying to sell 'something' (surface vessels, not submarines) but were defeated by (a) naval bureaucracy; (b) a belief that we were a dedicated shop for HAL, therefore the air force. Unfortunate.

 

[SQ8]

Iranians also use Kilo.

Why would Iranian Kilos approach from the east and run back east?

Please use common sense

I think that sounds reasonable.



I really wanted to know if submarines can detect that they've been spotted on radar. It is commonplace on planes; do subs have that equipment? Visual detection of an ASW aircraft or being pinged are of course warning signals.



I don't think that was a reasonable answer, and I don't think that would be a reasonable action.

The Atlantique was shot down in Indian airspace. It was not the first incident of an unarmed plane in violation of airspace being shot down, and it was, all said and done, in military markings.

In 65, a civilian aircraft, carrying the then Gujarat Chief Minister and his entourage, was shot down in Indian airspace. Admittedly it was during hostilities, but the pilot tried to signal the Pakistani pilot by waggling his wings. However, under instructions from ground control, the Pakistani pilot attacked and brought the plane down.

Please do not quote examples that have no bearing on the present situation. Even now, aircraft violating the other country's air space are warned, not shot down. This bloodthirsty approach of yours is quite barbaric.



No; they would be identical.

They could if their ESM mast is raised but its still no guarantee of detection- the only way is if they hear the telltale buzz of a turboprop MPA or the ping of an active sonar from a ship.

 

[Safriz]

If that is the case, I would call Pakistani NAVY stupid nothing less. Since as per International maritime law, any vessel is free to move around in international waters. An Exclusive Economic Zone for any country (which includes Pakistan as well) gives you exclusive rights for economic activities like fishing, oil exploration and rigging etc. It doesn't restrict the free sailing of any vessels through that area unless it comes under your territorial waters (12 Nautical miles or mere 23 K.M from shoreline). Yet if Pakistan had made it a news/case PN is managed by nothing less than a bunch of stupid guy's. LOL

Errrrt. No.
Look at the vector on the position of Indian sub in the map?
The vector is showing vessel's course and speed. It is heading towards Pakistani shores, so it's not just a sage passage as per international laws. So a concerned country , in this case Pakistan is entitled to take precautions, such as surveillance.
But cannot in any way interfere with the passage of the Indian submarine as it is not breaking Amy international laws by being there. Also the Indian submarine did not need to take any immediate steps or measures.
That's exactly what happened. Pakistan detect am enemy submarine heading towards it's shores, and sent surveillance aircraft to keep watch.
The Indian sub wasn't shot at or probably not even contacted, just presence of Pakistani surveillance assets shown to them. They took no immediate action as evident from video, kept their course for some time and then diverted towards elsewhere.
It was in the news to show Pakistani ability to detect and tract enemy subs snorkelling at 300 km away, may be more.

You know who is stupid?
Indian navy is stupid who burnt a Pakistani fishing boat 300 miles out ay sea.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

What a slap to Indian trolls here who were saying that their Sub was "few" KMs away from Karachi! LOL

300kms!! that is far away. For PN to detect and escort the Indian sub out at those distances, and yet Indian fanboys think that their Navy can block Karachi!

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

The Indian submarine was detected on 18th November 2016 and was forced to change course and return.
This new ISPR song revels further details. The submarine was detected at 165.6 Nautical Miles (306 Km) at bearing 231.8 degrees off Manora point Karachi. Good range of detection by Pakistani shore based radars for a submarine only snorkeling.

View attachment 423841

Shore based radars can detect submarines? Really? Even when snorkeling its still under an thin layer of water surface

 

[Safriz]

Shore based radars can detect submarines? Really? Even when snorkeling its still under an thin layer of water surface

While snorkling the radar waves are reflected by the perriscope and other appendages' protruding out of water and also by the wake.
However it's not clear how the sub was detected, by radar or by sonar arrays.

 

[SQ8]

I don't think it was that bad, and I don't think it was a radar detection of the snorkel. @Oscar just cleared things up; it was a Kilo-class making noise. As you probably know, those were very noisy boats, and not particularly difficult to catch on sonar. A sonar detection also makes sense in another way; the sonar ping can be heard on board the submarine, and, rather than being able to detect a radar lock-on, detecting a sonar ping is likelier.

Sound propogation is dependent upon sea conditions- whether it was a strong surface duct that day or just a lucky hit on the snorkel by a training P-3.
Either way, the Kilos are noisy even for SSKs which are generally pretty quiet.

Had this been a scorpene, he could probably have drifted in all the way into Karachi port & out without anyone knowing.

Shore based radars can detect submarines? Really? Even when snorkeling its still under an thin layer of water surface

They cant- however floating sonobuoys could in theory detect a noisy sub hundreds of miles away. SOSUS from the 1950s was doing that.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

While snorkling the radar waves are reflected by the perriscope and other appendages' protruding out of water and also by the wake.
However it's not clear how the sub was detected, by radar or by sonar arrays.

Post probably by Sonar or a lucky hit by an P-3 MRA plane. Periscopes cannot be detected by radars. The explanation by Oscar is good. I guess you should change the thread starting post to say that it might have been detected by Sonars or other stuffs. Not Radars.

 

[jermankill]

Because you can't. Short of having your entire coastline embargoed. There goes your CPEC drama.

India is building a blue water navy and it's only gonna grow as Indian economy and military might grows. Learn to live under its shadow. Grin and bear it.

And let me add; India will use Indian Navy to completely ensure that your little CPEC is reduced to a mere toy.

So there you are. Live with it.

Zaat de koor kerli tey chatera nu japhay.....
what the hell are u think u indian are? kuch bhi baktay rehtay ho this is not ur fking bollywood were u can bark yr dialogue

 

[Safriz]

Post probably by Sonar or a lucky hit by an P-3 MRA plane. Periscopes cannot be detected by radars. The explanation by Oscar is good. I guess you should change the thread starting post to say that it might have been detected by Sonars or other stuffs. Not Radars.

Wake + Periscopes give good radar signature, may be not from 300 Kilometers away but sure from a few tens of kilometers away if the sea is clam. Speaking from experience.
About thread, i have added my own speculation , which may be right or may be wrong. Thats the whole point of opening a thread on a public forum, so that people can verify and write educated arguments.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

The Indian submarine was detected on 18th November 2016 and was forced to change course and return.

Why indian submarines are so close to Pakistan? Why are they not eliminated.

On this above mentioned Date ; Indian Navy was already FULLY battle ready

SO if you had attacked our submarine ; we would have launched
an all out attack
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Navy conducts a major operational exercise in the Arabian Sea

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/navy-operational-exercise-arabian-sea/1/808271.html

 

[Giant XI]

Lol ISPR. good in making songs & videos. They should acquire Lollywood.

 

[WhyCry]

Perhaps because it was not an Indian submarine at all, in the first place. Second, because in peacetime, even if a foreign vessel of war is detected within territorial waters, there is no question of an outright attack without any provocation. At worst, the offending vessel may be warned and asked to leave, or to face the consequences.

In this case, there is nothing to say that the object on radar was an Indian submarine. It is also strange that 'on being detected', the submarine moved away. How did it know it had been detected?

I think otherwise remember Atlantique incident.

 

[sparten]

Iranians also use Kilo.

Every individual sub on the planet has a unique acoustic signature. A signature which can be recognized. The PN says its an IN Kilo, thats what it is. PN almost certainly knows Iranian Kilo acoustic signature.