Islamisation fears at top Pakistan university

[Jayanta]

Best of Luck...

But Pakistan is on a different tangent. I recently saw a Halal advertisement about halal car financing. I wanted to kiss on the lips of the person who came up with such Islamic idea.. (man of course cant kiss a girl on the lips because that would be haram)


for die harld "take no prisoners Muslims"

TTP, will introduce
Halal beheading
Halal suicide
Halal raping


for "ordinary" "peace loving" Muslims, Jamat H@rami and JUI will introduce

Halal Farting
Halal protesting
Halal burning of public / private property during protests
Halal Stalking of women
Halal Tax evading (because tax is haram)
Halal Bribing
Halal hoarding
Halal Milawat


and of course Halal flying

This reminds of..

 

[timetravel]

Discharging of religious obligation is not my requirement but religions requirement. So a person following a religion should discharge. Along side I did mention that omission is by individuals and does not change the principles of a religion, its ones own doing. And I totally agree you, me or for that matter anybody cannot judge about righteousness of other in religion. It has been categorically said by Him that it between the individual and the God himself. Thus, we should refrain from imposing our religion, sect, belief or concepts.


Here I will differ people in this world have come to follow what God has commanded. As per Islam everyone is responsible to do his or her own research in religion and know about divine laws; yes there is no provision of clergy in Islam, unlike other religions. Ever since humans have inhabited the earth, dictatorship of one kind or other has existed and will continue to be. Thus there is no point condemn only those who are imposing THEIR Islamic laws. There is no need for imposing such laws as most of the human interpretations on islam are incorrect, as of now.

if we search for one country where people follow all rules of religion willfully, we find there is none.

Only Saudi comes to the mind where people follow rules to highest degree, but then its not willful acceptance but enforced by a strict pictorial regime.

So the aim of having a country where all people follow all the rules of religion willfully is a non practical scenario.

If it remains as a dream then I do not have any problem. People have right to have wishes and dreams. but as you would agree that for many people it becomes the sole aim of their life to make other people righteous and follow word of God (as per their intrepretation offcourse) and when they do not see society acting as per their wish then they carry out mass violence to instill fear and acceptance and finally a Saudi style dictatorship is the only possible outcome if peace is required, otherwise those advocating strict adherence by everyone would continue their violent activities.

so while its good you agree that there is no need to impose laws, but in reality the conflict is on between those who want to enforce it on others. If people did really believe like you in not forcing others, then we would have a peaceful society.

but remember that in a peaceful society where one has right to choose without fear, the rules of the religion would not be followed by the majority. Now its up to those who go by the rules to be able to accept this reality, that people in general are not very interested in following religion by book. If we look at evidence it is clear that Saudi, Taliban and other so called groups who avow that they follow religion to the core, are not fine with people making their own choice. These groups are forcing others to follow their views and practice of religion.

This is what you call Democrazy. Lets not blame religion for it.

I think in a democracy you have freedom to choose and practice religion in your own interpretation and to your your extent.

If what you said above is true, that you do not want to force others to follow or act as per your rules or as per rules of a religion, then democracy is the best form of govt. which gives every individual the right to follow his way of life.

I do not think you can choose to follow religion in your own manner under a Saudi or a Taliban style of govt.

That is how some so called Pakistani liberals act like.

What is wrong with seeing Indian drams or dancing at your son's/daughter's wedding?

so is it a sin now to enjoy and watch serials/movies or to celebrate on weddings.

 

[Mav3rick]

I can read Urdu but to a minimum....I would prefer the English version...thank you

I tried, unfortunately I could not locate it. Let me try and translate it:

Basically, Mullah Omer (the leader of the real 'Talibaan' and not the terrorist organization that calls itself TTP), has advised the country's religious parties, ex ambassadors, ex Military Officials etc., to not link the immoral activities of so called Talibaan (TTP etc.) to them. The letter states that Intractable or agents of enemy intelligence agencies so called 'Mujahids' immoral activities should not be connected to the Emirates of Islamia. Scaring, threatening, kidnapping and attacks on life or property is not the majesty or pride of a 'Mujahid'. The bare handed Mujahideen have defeated the Americans despite all their extreme military technology. America is totally defeated and is engaged in swift withdrawal. Murder of innocent civilians, undue attack on population or holy places is neither our work now do we allow others to such conduct. Affiliating itself to the Emirate of Islamia after committing such heinous and illegal acts is purely the misuse of the name Talibaan. The letter was handed over to the officials by an important representative of the Emirate of Islamia.

The point I personally wanted to put across, as I have stated multiple times in various threads, is that the real Talibaan, the true freedom fighters who are engaged in the defence of Afghanistan against illegal foreign occupation and their puppet representatives, should not be linked to the terrorist organization TTP which is a veritable arm of a nexus of foreign intelligence agencies such as RAW, MOSSAD, the Afghan intelligence agency etc.

and what are those activities?

Corruption, drinking, gambling, prostitution, rape, nudity etc., they are all common in our society.....especially in Karachi.

 

[Dubious]

I tried, unfortunately I could not locate it. Let me try and translate it:

Basically, Mullah Omer (the leader of the real 'Talibaan' and not the terrorist organization that calls itself TTP), has advised the country's religious parties, ex ambassadors, ex Military Officials etc., to not link the immoral activities of so called Talibaan (TTP etc.) to them. The letter states that Intractable or agents of enemy intelligence agencies so called 'Mujahids' immoral activities should not be connected to the Emirates of Islamia. Scaring, threatening, kidnapping and attacks on life or property is not the majesty or pride of a 'Mujahid'. The bare handed Mujahideen have defeated the Americans despite all their extreme military technology. America is totally defeated and is engaged in swift withdrawal. Murder of innocent civilians, undue attack on population or holy places is neither our work now do we allow others to such conduct. Affiliating itself to the Emirate of Islamia after committing such heinous and illegal acts is purely the misuse of the name Talibaan. The letter was handed over to the officials by an important representative of the Emirate of Islamia.

The point I personally wanted to put across, as I have stated multiple times in various threads, is that the real Talibaan, the true freedom fighters who are engaged in the defence of Afghanistan against illegal foreign occupation and their puppet representatives, should not be linked to the terrorist organization TTP which is a veritable arm of a nexus of foreign intelligence agencies such as RAW, MOSSAD, the Afghan intelligence agency etc.



Corruption, drinking, gambling, prostitution, rape, nudity etc., they are all common in our society.....especially in Karachi.

Whats Emirate of Islamia. Thats new to me!!

 

[Mav3rick]

why should everyone follow? God will see to it that those who do not follow get justice. It's no one job on earth to force others to follow his interpretation. (why I say his interpretation is because everyone has his own interpretation and as obvious one'e own interpretation is always right, while that of other is wrong).

People have not come on earth to just follow God in all their life. Not everyone in a country needs to be a religious scholar. You cannot have 150 million pious religious preachers. People need to live a normal life without the restrictions of a religion, and be able to follow and lead their life in a casual and normal manner. Unless someone wants to enforce a martial type dictatotorship in a country, it will never be possible that people follow all the restrictive and oppressive tenants of any religion in world.

In a free society, people will disregard the harsh provisions of a religion. Only way to enforce a religion completely on people is by use of brute force (Saudi, Talibal etc) and that enforcement is again not based on the acceptance of people, but rather fear of the people.

So even if a state makes its people follow some rules based on voluminous quantity of legislation and fear of punishment for disobeying some rules, this kind of consent is useless. I won't call this sticking to one'e religion when people are made to do it by force rather then by will. This is not religious practice but political oppression.

I do not think so that the God would be very happy with people who do not want to follow some provisions of a religion willfully but just go by them because of fear of punishment. I do not think God wanted forceful slavery.

You mean to tell us that God put us on earth for reasons other then to obey His orders?? And what restrictions of religion prevent anyone on Earth from following a normal life??????

Whats Emirate of Islamia. Thats new to me!!

Perhaps I interpreted it incorrectly, I assume it is the name of Afghanistan as chosen by the Talibaan.

 

[Dubious]

I think Indians fail to realize 1 thing...Islam is not like Hinduism where you can make your own cocktail!

It has a set of rules and demands discipline that is why not everyone lasts in it and ends up steering at the borders....like when people go to another country...you dont set the rules, other countries rules you just got to obey likewise, Islam has rules obey and stay or leave...simple!

Its not about rebellion nor about your say...its about being humble and obeying GOD....fullstop

 

[timetravel]

You mean to tell us that God put us on earth for reasons other then to obey His orders?? And what restrictions of religion prevent anyone on Earth from following a normal life??????

I do not know why God put us here. But I do know God would like willful following from its people and not an enforced one like Saudi or Taliban style.

and off course God did not create certified universities, whose graduates can then force and do violence to ask others to follow word of God.

Religious restrictions may or may not prevent normal life.

But not being able to watch Indian dramas or not being able to celebrate or dance at a wedding to me does seem like hindering normal life of a person.

I think Indians fail to realize 1 thing...Islam is not like Hinduism where you can make your own cocktail!

It has a set of rules and demands discipline that is why not everyone lasts in it and ends up steering at the borders....like when people go to another country...you dont set the rules, other countries rules you just got to obey likewise, Islam has rules obey and stay or leave...simple!

Its not about rebellion nor about your say...its about being humble and obeying GOD....fullstop

if that is the case then Pakistan is not a Islamic country. I think more then 90% of the people do not follow all the rules of the religion.

so what are the 90% of Pakistan people. Hindus or Sikhs or Christians !!

 

[Dubious]

if that is the case then Pakistan is not a Islamic country. I think more then 90% of the people do not follow all the rules of the religion.

so what are the 90% of Pakistan people. Hindus or Sikhs or Christians !!

They are cocktails of secularism...choosing what they wish when they wish ...they take what they want to follow and drop out what they dont...its the practice everywhere but sadly it is def not Islam!

 

[Mav3rick]

I do not know why God put us here. But I do know God would like willful following from its people and not an enforced one like Saudi or Taliban style.

and off course God did not create certified universities, whose graduates can then force and do violence to ask others to follow word of God.

Religious restrictions may or may not prevent normal life.

But not being able to watch Indian dramas or not being able to celebrate or dance at a wedding to me does seem like hindering normal life of a person.

If the point that you wish to put across is "individuals should have the liberty to make their own choice", then I agree as you will be laid in your grave and I will be in mine. However, what would you say to the orders of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) when he (PBUH) imposed certain restrictions?

Actually, don't answer any of the above because the last 2 lines of your post sum up your 'normal' life beautifully.

The 40000 deaths are the result of grave political mistake of a dictator. The lesson that must be learned is "never to go against the will of your countrymen on foreign dictation''.

Spoken like a true loyalist of some political party. If only you were a Pakistani before you were a political loyalist!

I have been there too,my cousin is doing his m phil there,It's like any other university in Pakistan.
You mentioned that you work with the Jam'aat ,You know that a lot of universities now dont even allow you guys in

He was speaking about the 'Tableeghi Jamaat' and not Jamaat-e-Islami!! It is quite sad that you have no idea about the work that these guys do.

 

[timetravel]

They are cocktails of secularism...choosing what they wish when they wish ...they take what they want to follow and drop out what they dont...its the practice everywhere but sadly it is def not Islam!

and you are talking about 90% of Pakistan people here. So it is clear that willfully people would never follow the rules of the religion.
people want to live a normal life, and people are not interested in being religious scholars. Frankly normal people in their day to day life do not care about religion and its rules. They just want to live without being bothered by all the rules.

But for those who avow to stick to all rules, why does it bother them if the rest of 90% do not follow them. Be good yourself and there is no need to force others.

Also for those who follow all the rules, they have two options.

1) let people be people - normal people. Let people choose to be what they are - cocktails or secularism or be religious scholars who go by the book.

2) bring all the people on righteous path by giving strong punishment to those who disobey. But then that would be forced acceptance and will last only as long as the dictatorship lasts. As soon as people become free they would become what they were - cocktails of secularism.

I say option 1 is far far better then option 2. People have a right to choose their own level of practice for a religion. Religion is an individual's own choice.

 

[Mav3rick]

You didn't get the point....a University is a place of learning....it is specifically built to teach people.....a bookstore is a must for a university.....a mosque is not a must....let alone four of them....when it is the other way round in a university(not your house) you know something is not right!

Some logic you have, or lack of it!!!

There are literally markets of bookstores in Karachi! Universities and Schools usually do not have bookstores within the campus as books, usually bought only once every year, can be purchased at the market with the rest of the stuff. However prayers, that are compulsory 5 times every day, must be offered in a mosque.

Anyway, you and your likes will never understand the significance of prayers and religion overall.

 

[Dubious]

and you are talking about 90% of Pakistan people here. So it is clear that willfully people would never follow the rules of the religion.

That is because they have no idea what they are following many being uneducated just take the words of "the learned Mullah" to be real...which sadly many are just fakes...sell offs!

people want to live a normal life, and people are not interested in being religious scholars. Frankly normal people in their day to day life do not care about religion and its rules. They just want to live without being bothered by all the rules.

Frankly speaking that isnt even true...If that was the case, there wouldnt be soo many crap under Islam...It is because a handful who do these craps think it is Islamic thanks to false teachings do they do these craps...because they think it is Islamically allowed!

But for those who avow to stick to all rules, why does it bother them if the rest of 90% do not follow them. Be good yourself and there is no need to force others.

1stly, its not 90% I went along with your assumption doesnt make it 90% in reality....2ndly, about the forcing you dont see 90% forcing the 10% you see some 0.0001% forcing the 10% why? because they are even more misinformed and when the media gets hands of this news it gets blasted for days and it seems there are 90% when it is only 0.0001% doing the thing

Also for those who follow all the rules, they have two options.

1) let people be people - normal people. Let people choose to be what they are - cocktails or secularism or be religious scholars who go by the book.

2) bring all the people on righteous path by giving strong punishment to those who disobey. But then that would be forced acceptance and will last only as long as the dictatorship lasts. As soon as people become free they would become what they were - cocktails of secularism. I say option 1 is far far better then option 2. People have a right to choose their own level of practice for a religion. Religion is an individual's own choice.

There is a middle choice as well...you seem to swing in opposites like everyother Indian on this forum

Middle way: let people choose....those who chose Islam give them no.2...that is what Shariah says...if you are Muslim you will be punished harder because you knew the rules as opposed to the Non followers who didnt know the rules..

 

[timetravel]

If the point that you wish to put across is "individuals should have the liberty to make their own choice", then I agree as you will be laid in your grave and I will be in mine. However, what would you say to the orders of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) when he (PBUH) imposed certain restrictions?

Actually, don't answer any of the above because the last 2 lines of your post sum up your 'normal' life beautifully.
.

Yes its not necessary for everyone to follow everything what's said as per YOUR interpretation.

If you do not like watching Indian serials or do not like to celebrate by dancing at your friends wedding, then please don't do so. IF you get jannat later I would be happy for you.

But you are an extremely motivated person. You are like a seer who has given up worldly pleasures and fun like dancing, singing and watching serials. You are a saint and a great soul. You deserve a position in jannat for giving up all the fun that life had to offer to you on earth.

But not everyone is so much interested in being a seer. People who are a lesser soul then you need to have fun and need to celebrate the joys of life like weddings and watching movies.

So let them enjoy their life and not put stones in their life. They do not ask you to dance on their weddings or to watch Indian serials, so why are you bothering them.

Middle way: let people choose....those who chose Islam give them no.2...that is what Shariah says...if you are Muslim you will be punished harder because you knew the rules as opposed to the Non followers who didnt know the rules..

1) this is no middle way. This is option 2 itself. Now you are interfering in other's life. And frankly you know 90% of Pakistan people do not follow all rules of religion.

Now if you go and ask them, no one will listen to you, and still they would live a normal life and not follow the rules you want them to follow.

Now what will you do, to ensure that 90% of Pakistan people follow the rules? Please share your plan for the 90% of Pakistan people? How do you plan to punish the 90% of Pakistan people who are Muslims but do not follow the word of God, and so must be punished more harder then anyone?

and what I find interesting is that you want punishment not only for those Muslims who do not follow all rules but also for Non Muslims? I thought its only about Muslims so far and non Muslims do not have to follow the rules meant for Muslims.

2) and let me clear here when God said that those who do not follow rules would be punished, at that point God meant that that the punishment will be given by God. Am I right here?

God did not say that Punishment will be given by Taliban, or TTP or Saudi moral police if you do not follow the rules.

 

[Dubious]

this is no middle way. This is option 2 itself. Now you are interfering in other's life. And frankly you know 90% of Pakistan people do not follow all rules of religion.

1st its not option 2...I said let them choose...those who chose Islam should know its rules and that is the basic principal otherwise you arent even a Muslim...simple....How can it be option 2 when those who chose (according to option 1) are given easier way out? You live in a Muslim country, you know certain things are wrong...like when you go to the West, you cant go and harass a woman...it is wrong you will face charges whether you know the law or not...Wrong is wrong....likewise you live in a Muslim country, def you should get acquainted with the law like you do when you go to Dubai or when you go to USA....

Now if you go and ask them, no one will listen to you, and still they would live a normal life and not follow the rules you want them to follow.

There are no strict rules...Just the 5 pillars and not to associate anything with God...fullstop...and its not even for me...and they can still live their lives while doing the rules...it doesnt take your life away from following 5 pillars....esp if you already have done 1 the shahadah then follow along with the other 3 last one is hajj and only applies if you have the funding...

Now what will you do, to ensure that 90% of Pakistan people follow the rules? Please share your plan for the 90% of Pakistan people?

1stly, its not 90% but I went along gave you the benefit of the doubt...I dont have to impose anything on them...They are free to do whatever, but if they do wrong, they should face the consequences...simple

and what I find interesting is that you want punishment not only for those Muslims who do not follow all rules but also for Non Muslims?

where did I say that? wait let me read..ok what I said is

ou will be punished harder because you knew the rules as opposed to the Non followers who didnt know the rules

When is 1 punished when they do wrong..if you dont do wrong why are you afraid of punishment? It wont come to you as a bonus

I thought its only about Muslims so far and non Muslims do not have to follow the rules meant for Muslims.

What rules do non Muslims want? Seriously you said they choose their own cocktail...But they behave when they go to UK and USA? seriously break the desi rules but abide to American rules?

 

[timetravel]

1stly, its not 90% but I went along gave you the benefit of the doubt...I dont have to impose anything on them...They are free to do whatever, but if they do wrong, they should face the consequences...simple

what consequences. if not 90% then lets say 80%. What will you do if these 80% of the people do not pray 5 times a day?

what punishment you want to give them?

also what if 80% of the girls refuse to wear face covering dress. So what punishment you give to those girls?