Islam and Democracy

[40 nautical singhs]

kharji secular fanatics in Pakistan want to open night clubs,,,prostitution rings,franchises of Casinos and Brothels...thats why they want to undo the islamic provisions of the constitution....the usually go to thailand,and indonesia currently but they are bored with their usual businesses...they want something new...something immoral,,,shameless...if u go to a secular kharji fanatic party in karachi u will find out there is a bar in every secular fanatic kharji's house....call them naveen neqvi,nadeem paracha ,mosharaf zaidi plus the fashion models of Pakistan and socialites...they have an evil circle in karachi where drugs are common and recently bugti's grandson in one of such secular sposored wine party in karachi

recently interior minister sais israeli guns are being used in karachi.......ISI should interogate these secular kharji fanatics....they go to tel aviv cause they have a worship house in tel aviv...these secular fanatics were given a danda by Sir Bhutto and Sir Zia in the form of 2nd amendment.....the best piece of legislation...this is why secuar kharji fanatics spread hate against mullahs when in reality mullah have never done any harm to Pakistan but are its real defenders....
Zia ul haq gave a danda to Soviet union when it was coming for warm waters but gorge bush gave a danda to musharaf cause he was an illegal dictator who broke his prestigious oath of office.....any person who can break an oath is not worthy of being called a gentleman....he is a liar and a cheat who cant be trusted....secular fanatics love musharaf cause musharaf was an indian...he was born in india and his wife had links with people who go to tel aviv for worship....they have an office there and a large office in united kingdom.....musharaf and very clos aides 3,4 people there were fond of going to qadian,india and tel aviv.musharaf halted the missile program....he allowed drones to kill Pakistanis and dident raised a voice in internatioal court of justice.....he is a shameless man. who loves tabla and mujra and actresses and bolywodd actress rani mukherjee......he brought a very bad name to one of the most elite and prestigious institution of Pakistan......our wounds will only heal once he is brought to Pakistan in chains to face justice but he wont and i can assure he will never come to Pakistan cause he is afriad ...he cant live behind bars and that too without wine and tabla.

 

[niaz]

kharji secular fanatics in Pakistan want to open night clubs,,,prostitution rings,franchises of Casinos and Brothels...thats why they want to undo the islamic provisions of the constitution....the usually go to thailand,and indonesia currently but they are bored with their usual businesses...they want something new...something immoral,,,shameless...if u go to a secular kharji fanatic party in karachi u will find out there is a bar in every secular fanatic kharji's house....call them naveen neqvi,nadeem paracha ,mosharaf zaidi plus the fashion models of Pakistan and socialites...they have an evil circle in karachi where drugs are common and recently bugti's grandson in one of such secular sposored wine party in karachi

recently interior minister sais israeli guns are being used in karachi.......ISI should interogate these secular kharji fanatics....they go to tel aviv cause they have a worship house in tel aviv...these secular fanatics were given a danda by Sir Bhutto and Sir Zia in the form of 2nd amendment.....the best piece of legislation...this is why secuar kharji fanatics spread hate against mullahs when in reality mullah have never done any harm to Pakistan but are its real defenders....
Zia ul haq gave a danda to Soviet union when it was coming for warm waters but gorge bush gave a danda to musharaf cause he was an illegal dictator who broke his prestigious oath of office.....any person who can break an oath is not worthy of being called a gentleman....he is a liar and a cheat who cant be trusted....secular fanatics love musharaf cause musharaf was an indian...he was born in india and his wife had links with people who go to tel aviv for worship....they have an office there and a large office in united kingdom.....musharaf and very clos aides 3,4 people there were fond of going to qadian,india and tel aviv.musharaf halted the missile program....he allowed drones to kill Pakistanis and dident raised a voice in internatioal court of justice.....he is a shameless man. who loves tabla and mujra and actresses and bolywodd actress rani mukherjee......he brought a very bad name to one of the most elite and prestigious institution of Pakistan......our wounds will only heal once he is brought to Pakistan in chains to face justice but he wont and i can assure he will never come to Pakistan cause he is afriad ...he cant live behind bars and that too without wine and tabla.

Honourable Sir,

My main objection is to unnecessary use of the term ‘Kharji secular’ again and again.

For your kind information original Kharjiites were very strict Muslims and believed that only the Sheikhayn (Hazrat Abu Bakr-RA & Hazrat Omar –RA) were rightly guided. They believed that Hazrat Osman -RA had deviated from the path and also accused Hazrat Ali -RA of doing the same after he agreed to mediation after the battle of Siffin. Mualana Tahir ul Qadri believes that Kharijis were the first terrorists in Islam as they were the first Muslims to call other Muslims kafir same as the current Takfiris. Sheikh Abdul Aziz Ibne Baaz, Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia also declared Osama bin Laden as Kharji. Descendants of the original Kharjiites are present in numbers in Oman and known as Ibadis.

You have every right to dislike people with secular outlook but writing posts full of emotional outbursts makes little sense. Seculars may be ‘Kafirs’ but not kharjis. In fact Takfiris and followers of Al-Qaeda are closer to the Kharji beliefs.

 

[Xestan]

Honourable Sir,

My main objection is to unnecessary use of the term ‘Kharji secular’ again and again.

For your kind information original Kharjiites were very strict Muslims and believed that only the Sheikhayn (Hazrat Abu Bakr-RA & Hazrat Omar –RA) were rightly guided. They believed that Hazrat Osman -RA had deviated from the path and also accused Hazrat Ali -RA of doing the same after he agreed to mediation after the battle of Siffin. Mualana Tahir ul Qadri believes that Kharijis were the first terrorists in Islam as they were the first Muslims to call other Muslims kafir same as the current Takfiris. Sheikh Abdul Aziz Ibne Baaz, Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia also declared Osama bin Laden as Kharji. Descendants of the original Kharjiites are present in numbers in Oman and known as Ibadis.

You have every right to dislike people with secular outlook but writing posts full of emotional outbursts makes little sense. Seculars may be ‘Kafirs’ but not kharjis. In fact Takfiris and followers of Al-Qaeda are closer to the Kharji beliefs.

Adding to this, a bit off topic but in our time TTP is the worst kind of Kharijis, proved in the light of Qur'an and Hadith.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

Muslims actually created democracy.

 

[VCheng]

Muslims actually created democracy.

So the Greeks had nothing to with it?

 

[untitled]

Muslims actually created democracy.

So the Greeks had nothing to with it?

Some Greek mathematician invented a time machine ..... learned democracy from the Muslims and implemented it in his own time

 

[muse]

Some people confuse Republicanism and Democracy - particularly in Pakistan, but that's because they realize that "democracy" is an idea that is associated in Pakistan, with failure, with load shedding, with corruption, with ethnic and political strife. However, there is an alternate explanation,a darker explanation, one in which this deliberate obfuscation paves the way for a new definition of "democracy".

Islam and Democracy? it's more important to focus on secularization - after all, if Islam is about the "truth" of it's mission, can such a thing really be open to democracy?

 

[Saifullah Sani]

Iqbal says

 

[muse]

Islam is about "Duties" and "Obligations" and "Sins" -- Democracy and Republicanism is about "Rights", "Responsibilities" and "Crimes" -- How then can these be compatible in terms of governance?

 

[VCheng]

Islam is about "Duties" and "Obligations" and "Sins" -- Democracy and Republicanism is about "Rights", "Responsibilities" and "Crimes" -- How then can these be compatible in terms of governance?

Isn't modern Turkey trying to develop this compatibility?

 

[muse]

But modern Turkiye is committed to objective secularism -- The Courts do not try one for failure to observe religious "Duties and Obligations and for the commission of Sins -- quite the contrary, the government of the AKP uphold "Rights" and require the exercise of "Responsibilities" and the Courts prosecute and adjudicate "crimes".


Serious interlocutors must come to terms with these distinctions and their origins in ideas.

 

[VCheng]

But modern Turkiye is committed to objective secularism -- The Courts do not try one for failure to observe religious "Duties and Obligations and for the commission of Sins -- quite the contrary, the government of the AKP uphold "Rights" and require the exercise of "Responsibilities" and the Courts prosecute and adjudicate "crimes".


Serious interlocutors must come to terms with these distinctions and their origins in ideas.

Exactly my point, since this model of governance of a modern country, while maintaining its Islamic identity, is worth analyzing for application to Pakistan, I feel.

 

[muse]

Exactly my point, since this model of governance of a modern country, while maintaining its Islamic identity, is worth analyzing for application to Pakistan, I feel.

So you seem to be saying that "Muslim" and "Islam" are only meaningful in secular governance? If Yes, what is to be done with those who conspire against society from Madaress, from organizations promoting Khilafat and who infiltrate institutions with such ideas?

 

[VCheng]

So you seem to be saying that "Muslim" and "Islam" are only meaningful in secular governance? If Yes, what is to be done with those who conspire against society from Madaress, from organizations promoting Khilafat and who infiltrate institutions with such ideas?

Good governance, by its very nature, must be secular in its outlook and implementation. The key to preventing its subversion by religious zealots of any persuasion, lies in education.

A total revamp of the education system, on a war footing, backed up by resources, and then sustained over at least two decades, that would be my prescription, otherwise the patient, already on life-support, will likely wither away.

 

[muse]

The key to preventing its subversion by religious zealots of any persuasion, lies in education.

It was education thatg brought about these islam mongers in the first place -- you say education must be revamped -- with what kinds of ideas ?