ISI ordered journalist's murder - More US Propaganda?

[Bang Galore]

Since there are no credible evidences against ISI / PA involvement except that the 'statement' of Uncle Sam which always get appreciation by people who hardly ask for any evidences, therefore the same lead to following two possibilities:

1. Either PA/ISI is involved but could not get caught as it is too professional and never leave any evidence for its involvement.

Who is going to do the catching? We are talking ISI here. How many ISI officers have ever been caught? Saleem Shehzad's body was found a distance from where he was abducted; a distance in which were present many police check posts. So explain, how did the body get to where it was eventually found & why did the abductors have so much confidence that they would actually pass that many check posts?

2. Or, PA / ISI is not involved at all.

ya, possible! Some aliens might be doing the abducting since they seem to have a knack of never getting caught. All the journalists end up in their peculiar situations after they had written something unflattering about the ISI. are you suggesting that the ISI has a mysterious fairy
god mother who is doing these things? Why should it concern anyone else if the journalists are bad mouthing the ISI?

It is just your hatred against PA that you will always go for option 1 above, and keep standing alongwith all the propaganda against it, and

Not my hatred, it's your blindness that prevents you from seeing reality. Read any newspaper anywhere in the world & see what they have to say on this case. Adm. Mullen has actually made a direct allegation and he has also said that this is nothing new & it has historically been done from time to time. You can believe your conspiracy theories all you want, most mainstream Pakistani journalists took this line when he was abducted & certainly when he was killed.

There are many journalists who keep writing against PA / ISI on similar levels as SS was doing, but why just SS has been targeted? it is just nothing but a propaganda to malign PA / ISI.

You need to read more. Many journalists including Najam Sethi & Hamid Mir have said that the ISI puts pressure on them & what Najam Sethi experience was similar to the case of Saleem Shehzad.

ISI is being named as it can be top most 'beneficiary' of the SS killing. So it is rule the ultimate beneficiary of any incident is the prime suspect, right?

Now tell me who is ultimate beneficiary when Pakistan lost PC3 Orions???

Ask Ilyas Kashmiri? Oh I forgot, he is dead,. Ask any of the naval personnel who were making the deal with Al Qaeda about the detained sympathisers the crux of Saleem Shehzad's story).

Why dont you apply same standards on every case? hypocrisy?

Yeah right! Hypocrisy is a charge better directed at people who wallow in it.

 

[Bang Galore]

What are you talking about, he is referring to the proclamation of emergency by Mush and sending judges to home, as those judges who did not took oath, got dismissed, The same judges then restored (by Army intervention too.).

I, sir have no problem in comprehension. I know exactly what he was talking about. My point was that the ISI may not necessarily be as "lenient" as President Musharraf was, constrained as he was by being the head of Government. ( Btw, I thought the lawyers did a fine job about the cause of the reinstatement of the judges. You seem to want to hand over the credit entirely to the army)

Musharraf's "dismissal" - CJ Iftikhar Chowdhary

ISI's "dismissal" - Saleem Shehzad ?

Get it?

 

[53fd]

It's interesting that Mullen thinks the civilian government was responsible for the killing of Saleem Shahzad, not necessarily the ISI. Most of the previous targets by him & the US have been directed at the ISI, & not the government.

 

[Bill Longley]

But are we seeing any official denial? I see reason in this article. After all, Saleem Shahzad's reporting was clearly making a lot of people very uncomfortable in Pakistan.

I have read extracts of his book. His writings were for westren Audiences . I think if you are informed you can easily see the sensationalism in his writings. Its plainly stupid to accuse Pakistani govt or any agency of his death. but if you are Pakistan Fobic and fobia is so over whelming that it can alter the concept of justice in ur mind then you can say and belive any theory you like on basis of ur fobia

 

[S.M.R]

Who is going to do the catching? We are talking ISI here. How many ISI officers have ever been caught? Saleem Shehzad's body was found a distance from where he was abducted; a distance in which were present many police check posts. So explain, how did the body get to where it was eventually found & why did the abductors have so much confidence that they would actually pass that many check posts?

ISI caught for what? it is supposed to work in interest of Pakistan and it is working. Why there is need to catch ISI just by associating it with an event who might be done by any other just to malign ISI. Further, there is no such check that every car / vehicle is stopped and checked from A to Z, so moving the body is not a big deal.

ya, possible! Some aliens might be doing the abducting since they seem to have a knack of never getting caught. All the journalists end up in their peculiar situations after they had written something unflattering about the ISI. are you suggesting that the ISI has a mysterious fairy
god mother who is doing these things? Why should it concern anyone else if the journalists are bad mouthing the ISI?

It has great concern to those who are hell bent to malign ISI for not letting them doing their desired tasks. Hint.... RD's inability to deliver uranium to terrorists...

Not my hatred, it's your blindness that prevents you from seeing reality. Read any newspaper anywhere in the world & see what they have to say on this case. Adm. Mullen has actually made a direct allegation and he has also said that this is nothing new & it has historically been done from time to time. You can believe your conspiracy theories all you want, most mainstream Pakistani journalists took this line when he was abducted & certainly when he was killed.

If you call the statements of uncle sam reality then I cant help you on that. Every newspaper says is the Mullen out of constipation, nothing else. Allegations are just allegations till proved.

You need to read more. Many journalists including Najam Sethi & Hamid Mir have said that the ISI puts pressure on them & what Najam Sethi experience was similar to the case of Saleem Shehzad.

Both of the joker and Taliban sympathizer has been discussed in detail in other thread claiming they are also under threat. Please go through that thread.

Ask Ilyas Kashmiri? Oh I forgot, he is dead,. Ask any of the naval personnel who were making the deal with Al Qaeda about the detained sympathisers the crux of Saleem Shehzad's story).

Just propaganda nothing else.

Yeah right! Hypocrisy is a charge better directed at people who wallow in it.

Please apply the same standards on every case and stop believing every words of mouths coming from those mouths which said 'WMD in Iraq'.

 

[SMC]

The hypocrisy being shown by some bharatis is really astounding. They say that it's impossible to find evidence of ISI involvement but then ask us to provide evidence when we make accusations. The amount of hypocrisy I've seen over the last 1-2 years from these guys is unmatchable.

 

[Stealth IFV]

Ok, let's assume the ISI is innocent. Now explain to his family and readership who killed him, and why have those investigations not overshadowed the US administration's rightful allegations of state sponsored murder? No one seems to care that a human being was tortured and thrown into a ditch, too busy blaming others for some sort of "phantom operation" against the good name of Pakistan. It must be those damned secularists armed with their conspiracy theories who did it. This pathetic, defensive, deflective mindset makes you look more guilty than innocent.

 

[SMC]

^ Nice hypocrisy. So here's what we have.

1. Accuse others of making conspiracy theories.
2. Make conspiracy theories yourself, and attack others for pointing out that something is a conspiracy theory.

Where does this end?

 

[Stealth IFV]

^ Nice hypocrisy. So here's what we have.

1. Accuse others of making conspiracy theories.
2. Make conspiracy theories yourself, and attack others for pointing out that something is a conspiracy theory.

Where does this end?

You tell me where it ends, you're not even interested in finding out who tortured and killed the man who was just doing his job. Your interests lie in the defense of your establishment, which clouds the judicial process. It ends when some institutions actually do their damned jobs and not spend all their time deflecting accusations.

 

[Bobshouse]

Its probably hard to believe for most Pakistanis that the US has better intelligence in Pakistan than what the Pakistanis do. There is not a phone call, email, text message or any other form of electronic communication that circulates through Pakistan that the US can not get its hands on. Moreover it is becoming clearer and clearer the US has an extensive network of insiders that are actively working for the US. This has been proven by the Wikileaks docs and the openly acknowledged government within a government scenario within Pakistan. Yes this is destablising Pakistan but if the US wants to achieve its goals within presidential terms it has no other choice in such a fragmented country. If Pakistan government wants to be seen as a professional and modern force it should accept responsibility even when rogue elements do the wrong thing. When do you think Pakistani will be a country and not just a collection of self serving religious and ethnic groups?

 

[Valiant_Soul]

I have read extracts of his book. His writings were for westren Audiences . I think if you are informed you can easily see the sensationalism in his writings. Its plainly stupid to accuse Pakistani govt or any agency of his death.

And that you believe is enough to prove his accusations wrong. You lot are defending ISI even before any fair trails have concluded, that is the only point of contention from my side and broadly that you should be wary of extremists taking hold of key institutions of your country.

but if you are Pakistan Fobic and fobia is so over whelming that it can alter the concept of justice in ur mind then you can say and belive any theory you like on basis of ur fobia

I am not the victim nor the accusations have borne off me, but presumably you and the likes of you think that every Indian is here to speak against Pakistan just because they are Indian.

 

[SMC]

By "whole world" we mean the international community whose voice counts. Rest are mostly self-confined, powerless or botherless.

Well then use terms such as countries who have power.

But of the countries that have power, who made the state about ISI killing the journalist? Just US. So US is now the whole world?

I was talking about the excuse to initiate the war. WMDs was another one.

WMD was THE ONLY REASON.

It seems you are arguing just for the heck of it or you are least aware of what you are saying. You think USA directly controls the oil reserves of Iraq? It enabled major stake into the oil industry of Iraq by corporate contracts to its company, thereby securing itself oil/oil-generated revenue.

That is entirely different from controlling a piece of land of a sovereign nation.

I am not sure how that was relevant. I am merely pointing out that US interest in sabotaging any future pipelines into China is far bigger than oil in Iraq.

As I said these are very different cases. Each of which would require a separate thread.

But most of the countries do not have treasure troves and the only reason why they're attacked by the US on the internatial politics stage is because they refuse to listen to them. And the same goes for Pakistan - they do not listen to US demands for going into North Waziristan, or disagree over drone attacks. The facts are right in front of you yet you make statements like "What treasure trove does Pakistan have".

No I don't. When trying to see the legitimacy of a situation, there are always several supporting points. This is one of them.

No I don't see how this must be one of them. It doesn't have to be a treasure trove that another country must want. International politics is an interesting game. You'd think a country would have no reason to talk smack about another country, but you don't know what's happening privately between those two countries.

Now that is an over simplistic notion. While you think that others are talking naive, you do not realize that the circle you are looking at, thinking it is smaller than your own, is actually one of the many overlapping and encircling.

Please explain how it is overly simplistic.

So surely if your house gets robbed while you were sleeping and no gets nabbed, it must be a propaganda. Try to think with some rationale. I never said these are enough to nail the ISI in court, but if such serious allegations are leveled against a nation's intelligence and military, people should not take it lightly and brush them under the carpet just because it suits their liking.

Again, every major intelligence agencies has accusations leveled against it. And probably only a fraction ever get investigated. I am not sure how this one not being investigated is something negative, then.

I would have bought your argument of this being a pressure tactic by the US, had it not been the case that the charges have originated from within Pakistan, by its own journalists, some prominent and famous.

You were asking why US would make such allegations against Pakistan. I was giving you reasons.

Why would Pakistani journalists make such claims? Because they don't like the fact that ISI and army are the establishment.

But again, what matters more is evidence against ISI.

Probably a good suggestion, but you are directing it to the wrong person. Voice this to your government, in fact ensure that the journalists get a fair trial.

Government is not the one who is going to get such evidence, since the accusations are more or less against it.

What? I suppose there is a lack of synchronization here. But from whatever I can gather, your generalizations are amusing.

What I mean is that bharat and other countries make accusations against Pakistan without evidence, such as the one being discussed in this topic, or Pakistan supporting Afghan Taliban, etc without having any evidence, basically making conspiracy theories.

Yet they attack Pakistan for 'believing in conspiracy theories' if Pakistanis do the same.

Just pointing out how some decieve themselves.