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Is US succumbing to Pakistani diplomacy?

Trump has outsourced diplomacy to the generals - a 100% guaranteed path to failure!!! Six centuries of the Ottoman Empire was lost in six years of military government.....

Yes. Read Pat Buchanan at The American Conservative. When Trump assumed the Presidency, his instinct was to pull back, de-escalate, and do his MAGA thingy. But the Deep State walked into the Oval Office and persuaded him to go on the offensive--or else!!

There's a difference between geo-politics and street fight. Even in a street fight, you measure the size and heart of your opponent before taking a decision. Their is no military parity between US and Pak, but US knows and we know that for the last 37 years we have been fighting covert wars with opponents much bigger than our size and we managed to match it despite contrary expectations. You expect Pakistan to give a knee-jerk reaction? Well if we had too, we could have done that after Black Water was caught red-handed, or after Ray-Davis episode or after Abbotabad or at least after Salala but we did not. Even at that time observers like yourself quipped with similar phrases like 'taking it like a good boy' but time proved quite the opposite. We cleared Fata at the time of our own choice, not on American demand. Zarb e Azb and Radd ul Fasaad, is an effort to clear internal foreign assets, again we are doing it at the time of our own choosing. Border Management, which we have been asking the Yanks and Afghans for over a decade and which they were strongly opposed to, we are doing it now. It doesn't make us taking it like a good boy sir, we are returning the favor in kind but only on our terms. If US is yelling at us in 2018 after 16 years of futile effort, we must have done something right, don't you think?

Speaking of leverage, there is no worst-case scenario yet, and all kind of leverage exists before that. US knows about the limits of its leverage with Russia, China, Pakistan and a hostile Iran around it in Afghanistan. We had taken US embargoes in our stride before in a uni-polar world and we can still take it now when the world is almost multi-polar. We don't have to shut the routes now, Yanks have to do a lot before that for example, ending the non-NATO ally status for Pakistan, Economic sanctions, declaring Pakistan a terrorist state or sanctioning ISI, freezing our worldwide assets and bank accounts so on and so forth and we'll see how far they can go.. so you were wrong because eventually it will be us, who will call the American bluff. I believe US won't go that far (despite many Indians wanting them too) , it's plain lunacy if they take things to that level, they are testing waters to see how far they can go with their leverage before deciding to call it quits. In the meanwhile, we'll quietly keep doing what we have been doing and the Yanks can't do s*** about it.

Just to give you some food for thought before I conclude, Yanks have lost a lot of clout and credibility post Crimea and Syria, still if that doesn't ring you any bell, nothing will.

Top post. Should be a sticky. Thanks.
 
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@ziaulislam I gave you a friendly head's up on how to post respectfully (post 59 I deleted), but you JUST DON'T GET IT DO YOU? You're not posting on this thread anymore and if you insist I'll ban, not giving a damm.
okay God bless pakistan
 
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Aren't you giving too much importance and weightage to India? India is no Israel.
thats indirect effect as a response to American demand to setup a shop in Afghanistan and disrupt and discourage China's one road/ belt project and CPEC. but thats just an opinion.
but what seems to be a majority consensus is that Americans have no interest in peace or democracy or human rights and Taliban or Haqqanis are of no consequence to them.
I mean if they really wanted they would have eliminated the Taliban within a year. Americans intend to stay in the region . bickering at Pakistan, Iran and Russia is just window dressing
 
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Pak needs to acamodate all players including US not putting all eggs in one basket. We should give access to China one hand same time US to Afghanistan plus in future if India settles out with US also give him energy corridor.
By a good diplomacy and forgien policy with vision pak can be a gateway to all stake holders this will give boom to Pakistan and prosperity this will our future.
 
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Can anyone here highlight the impact of US economic sanctions or a travel ban on pakistan?
 
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At the end of the day, Trump administration carried out its threat. Without repercussions. This is dangerous for your country. It’s a behavior that invites aggression. Everyone can see that but Pakistanis

But let’s agree to disagree

Carried out its threat but lost so much. USA being a super power arguing and fighting like school bully. Dont you see the fall from grace of USA in all this! You dont see American desperation but Pakistani humiliation? Thats very strange view.

Like Trump, Pakistan need not behave. They are better off behaving a state should. not some school kid who has lost a lollipop like American president is behaving.
 
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Trump and his administration are deranged and very heavily influenced by their own religious christian and jewish radical terrorists. Pakistan should tread very very carefully and wisely.
 
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This is a god chance for Pakistan to limit its ties with US & Pakistan should step away from all US made trash for good. US is known for dumping its failures on other countries & this should be a lesson for Pakistan & hence a way for us to step away from US BS for good & have very limited ties with them. Also Pakistan should act accordingly & shut down the so called IS fortress Embassy (which is only financing terrorism & trouble against Pakistan) for good.
 
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All I see here is people jumping to conclusions about how US is cornered in Afghanistan like a helpless bunny. Seriously now?

Mattis also pointed out in his interview that Trump administration took into consideration all possibilities before suspending military assistance to Pakistan and is not worried about Islamabad shutting off supplies to Afghanistan in retaliation because this will not make any difference.

They have done their homework in regards to Pakistan.

Now, time to grasp following realities:

1. CPEC will take time to be a game-changer and this too depends upon the factor that Pakistan is able to capitalize on the opportunities offered by it or not.

2. US have imposed heavy sanctions on North Korea and both China and Russia are forced to abide. South Korea is checking every shipment to North Korea at present. Rumors are surfacing that North Korea has scheduled talks with US in secrecy. Rex Tillerson has confirmed this recently.

So what was the point of testing all those ballistic missiles?

3. US can decide to impose heavy sanctions on Pakistan which would affect CPEC and other economic initiatives. Bear in mind that OBOR has 5 legs (CPEC being 1 of 5) and Pakistan is not a major oil producing economy either.

4. US can provide PAC-3, THAAD and MEADS systems to India in massive numbers to negate the threat of Pakistani nukes to India.

The dream of some on taking on a superpower will fall falt on our face one day. We are not at all prepared for a conflict with the US.

Musharraf is absolutely right: Pakistani PM should schedule a meeting with Trump administration on priority basis much like Chinese and Indian leaders have done in the past. Pakistan is in dire need of constructive relations with US, Russia and China.


Remember the teachings of Allah Almighty. He does not like "pride."

thats indirect effect as a response to American demand to setup a shop in Afghanistan and disrupt and discourage China's one road/ belt project and CPEC. but thats just an opinion.
but what seems to be a majority consensus is that Americans have no interest in peace or democracy or human rights and Taliban or Haqqanis are of no consequence to them.
I mean if they really wanted they would have eliminated the Taliban within a year. Americans intend to stay in the region . bickering at Pakistan, Iran and Russia is just window dressing
Absolutely
 
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All I see here is people jumping to conclusions about how US is cornered in Afghanistan like a helpless bunny. Seriously now?

Mattis also pointed out in his interview that Trump administration took into consideration all possibilities before suspending military assistance to Pakistan and is not worried about Islamabad shutting off supplies to Afghanistan in retaliation because this will not make any difference.

They have done their homework in regards to Pakistan.

Now, time to grasp following realities:

1. CPEC will take time to be a game-changer and this too depends upon the factor that Pakistan is able to capitalize on the opportunities offered by it or not.

2. US have imposed heavy sanctions on North Korea and both China and Russia are forced to abide. South Korea is checking every shipment to North Korea at present. Rumors are surfacing that North Korea has scheduled talks with US in secrecy. Rex Tillerson has confirmed this recently.

So what was the point of testing all those ballistic missiles?

3. US can decide to impose heavy sanctions on Pakistan which would affect CPEC and other economic initiatives. Bear in mind that OBOR has 5 legs (CPEC being 1 of 5) and Pakistan is not a major oil producing economy either.

4. US can provide PAC-3, THAAD and MEADS systems to India in massive numbers to negate the threat of Pakistani nukes to India.

The dream of some on taking on a superpower will fall falt on our face one day. We are not at all prepared for a conflict with the US.

Musharraf is absolutely right: Pakistani PM should schedule a meeting with Trump administration on priority basis much like Chinese and Indian leaders have done in the past. Pakistan is in dire need of constructive relations with US, Russia and China.

Remember the teachings of Allah Almighty. He does not like "pride."

These are just US branded fear mongering, more of status quo for US "beneficiary class".

US has limited sanction capability and has diminishing effect.
Comparing North Korean situation with Pakistan is just comical in every aspect. Only naive would do that.
US will provide THAAD to india regarless, so what is your point. Pakistan has to come u with counter regrdless.
"Musharraf is right" that pretty much gives your thinking away, case closed.
 
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These are just US branded fear mongering, more of status quo for US "beneficiary class".

US has limited sanction capability and has diminishing effect.
Comparing North Korean situation with Pakistan is just comical in every aspect. Only naive would do that.
US will provide THAAD to india regarless, so what is your point. Pakistan has to come u with counter regrdless.
"Musharraf is right" that pretty much gives your thinking away, case closed.
Contrary to your imaginations, Pakistani economy is not doing well and stimulated by loans from US and China since 2008. Our trade deficit is huge and industrial capability almost diminished under pressures of competition with Chinese businesses and "energy crises."

Prices of commodities going up once again; inflation is increasing by the day.

Your hype is imaginary and misplaced. I live in Pakistan and I can see what is happening. Sanctions affect common people, not elites because elites have amassed considerable wealth and many have dual nationalities.

Pakistan is not this and that - WTH is this? Pakistan is a 3rd world country with lot of problems on its plate. In coming years, a major water crises is going to rear its head in Pakistan as well. Unfortunately, we have a dysfunctional economy and political setup.

And please do some homework in regards to how sanctions work and are enforced. Russian economy has taken approximately 1 Trillion USD hit in terms of GDP due to sanctions imposed by US since 2014 but Russia is enduring because its population is small and it is a major oil producing country on top.

North Korea is about to cave in because when you cannot feed your population, people will revolt and tear down the leadership.
 
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Contrary to your imaginations, Pakistani economy is not doing well and stimulated by loans from US and China since 2008. Our trade deficit is huge and industrial capability almost diminished due to competitive pressure from Chinese businesses and power shortages.

Prices of commodities going up once again; inflation is increasing by the day.

Your hype is imaginary and misplaced. I live in Pakistan and I can see what is happening. Sanctions affect common people, not elites because elites have amassed considerable wealth and many have dual nationalities.

Pakistan is not this and that - WTH is this? Pakistan is a country with lot of problems on its plate. In coming years, a major water crises is going to rear its head in Pakistan as well. We have a dysfunctional economy and political setup.

And please do some homework in regards to how sanctions work and are enforced.

Every developing country has internal and financial issue to deal with and Pakistan is no different. That does not mean Pakistan has to submit itself to US just as US beneficiary class would like to. Pakistan has choices and more importantly about core and strategic interest. Regardless of problems, Pakistan if it wish to, has enough internal strength to pull together without giving into US submission.
 
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Every developing country has internal and financial issue to deal with and Pakistan is no different. That does not mean Pakistan has to submit itself to US just as US beneficiary class would like to. Pakistan has choices and more importantly about core and strategic interest. Regardless of problems, Pakistan if it wish to, has enough internal strength to pull together without giving into US submission.
I am not interested in your imaginary boasts about resilience of Pakistan in the face of impossible odds.

Kindly provide me economic and technical insight as to how Pakistan can endure on the face of crippling sanctions, should US decide to impose them on us. We have a huge population, an economy that is being stimulated by loans from IMF and Chinese corporations and diminished Industrial capability. CPEC is not some kind of magic solution for our economic woes; it is still in its infancy and vulnerable to sanctions.

Last, we do not want to submit to the US; we are being forced to.
 
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I am not interested in your imaginary boasts about resilience of Pakistan in the face of impossible odds.

Kindly provide me economic and technical insight as to how Pakistan can endure on the face of crippling sanctions, should US decide to impose them on us.

Last, we do not want to submit to the US; we are being forced to.

First show your imaginary sanction from US master and what are the impacts? Most Pakistanis I see in the forum are not willing to submit but they are not holding you off from submitting to US, you are free.
 
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First show your imaginary sanction from US master and what are the impacts? Most Pakistanis I see in the forum are not willing to submit but they are not holding you off from submitting to US, you are free.
Abhey chawal

I am highlighting the possibility of US imposing crippling economic sanctions, if our relations continue on the existing trajectory. They have imposed sanctions on Russia and North Korea as we speak. Do you think they cannot do the same to Pakistan now?

I am in the domain of education and research. I understand these matters better than most; PDF crowd is not the true reflection of how Pakistani think in real life and practically. PDF crowd is just a tiny portion.

Rehta tu Amreeka mein aur humein hanuman samaj rakha hai.

Again, we [do not want to] submit to the US.
 
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