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Is spying on Muslims legal in the US?

Sugarcane

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As New York police face the heat for arbitrary spying of citizens we ask if the US government will probe the matter.

An investigation has found further proof that the New York Police Department (NYPD) has been spying on citizens just based on their religion, Islam, and without any apparent evidence of criminal activity.

Back in August, The Associated Press first revealed that the NYPD, with the help of the CIA, developed one of the biggest domestic intelligence agencies in the country.

It targetted US citizens based solely on their religion or ethnicity.

Undercover officers nicknamed "rakers" were assigned to go into neighbourhoods and monitor the population.

Police built databases showing where Muslims live, where they buy groceries, what Internet cafes they use and where they watch sport.

Informants, whom they called "mosque crawlers", were used to attend religious services and then report back.

The Associated Press obtained the secret NYPD demographics reports that compiled information on people and places and activity at different locations.

There are many similar maps of a neighbourhood in Newark, where a range of halal grocery stores as well as mosques and madrasahs, or schools of Islamic learning, are clearly marked.

In addition to specific profiles of individual US citizens, there are also descriptions of activity at many locations.

For example, at one restaurant the file notes that Muslims, of Chinese descent, operate the restaurant. And that during the visit, three African Muslim males and an Egyptian male customer were observed dining, and that an Egyptian male customer had a conversation about a mosque nearby.

"The NYPD has established one of the most aggressive and effective intelligence systems since 9/11, based upon the fact that in the last 10 years 14 of the 19 significant plots have been against New York targets. It's not some kind of random ethnic or racial profiling. If you have an enemy that says they will murder people for their religion… that they are soldiers of Allah and recruiting people in mosques, you would be irresponsible not to find out who in these communities is a part of that potential threat group or is inciting others to violence."

- Sebastian Gorka, a national security analyst

"I disagree with Mr Gorka, because when it comes to surveillance and particularly investigative work you have to have individualised suspicion. There is a reason why our law requires [that], and reasonable suspicion and probable cause. I don't think the law supports this type of dragnet, profiling-based surveillance."

- Sahar Aziz, a former US Department of Homeland Security advisor


Meanwhile, Muslim groups, rights organisations and some US politicans have complained that civil liberties have been abused and they have called on the US government to investigate.

Now The Associated Press has revealed Muslim students at 16 universities across the northeastern US were also monitored.

Police looked at websites used by Muslim students, and even sent an undercover agent on a student trip.

There were new revelations that the NYPD also spied on Muslims in New Jersey. The governor there called the findings disturbing and there have been calls for an investigation.

Throughout the controversy, the mayor of New York, Michael Bloomberg, and the city's police commissioner have maintained that no lines were crossed and that the steps were taken to protect the city.

Following the latest revelations, Keith Ellison, a Democrat congressman and a Muslim, told Al Jazeera:

"Law enforcement must be done in accordance with the constitution, that means just snooping and spying on people where there's no factual basis to believe that they're involved in any kind of criminal activity just because of what their religion is, is disturbing to me. The NYPD crossed a moral line… whether they crossed a legal one is yet to be determined.

"The basic theme of our constitution is that if you're not doing anything wrong, government is supposed to leave you alone. But if somebody… a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu or anyone is doing something that looks like it's going to break the law, or is dangerous or harmful to others, then it is in fact the job of law enforcement to stop that."

So has the NYPD violated civil liberties by spying on Muslims? Should the US government investigate what has taken place?

To discuss this with presenter Lisa Fletcher on Inside Story Americas are: Sahar Aziz, a law professor at the Texas Wesleyan University School of Law and a former advisor for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties at the US Department of Homeland Security; Sebastian Gorka, a national security analyst at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies; and Haroon Moghul from the online magazine Religion Dispatches who has been working with Muslim groups in New York since these revelations were published.

We also invited representatives of the NYPD, the office of Michael Bloomberg, the New York mayor, and the US Department of Justice to appear on Al Jazeera, but they either declined or did not return our calls.

"It is inaccurate to say that you have to go find who these extremists are by going to mosques. You can ask American Muslims. The assumption is that American Muslims don't want to help out, and that is false. The fact is that American Muslims are your best resource in trying to stop [terror plots]. The behaviour of the NYPD has taken the trust between these communities and ruined it, and it has done significant damage."

Haroon Moghul from the online magazine Religion Dispatches


Is spying on Muslims legal in the US? - Inside Story Americas - Al Jazeera English
 
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Although it is wrong but we can't completely blame usa for this
 
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Mayor Bloomberg of New York City declared today it is legal to do so for the protection of the residents.
 
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My personal view is that I thought that the concentration camps Japanese were placed in was justified during war (I don't know the details, but on the face of it, at least). But the reason I think this is different is because the US and Muslims are not engaged in war. There may have been an attack more than a decade ago that killed 2,973 people and the US may have retaliated by killings hundreds of thousands more, but that still doesn't put the US in a state of open war against Muslims. I am against the New York mayor.
 
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My personal view is that I thought that the concentration camps Japanese were placed in was justified during war (I don't know the details, but on the face of it, at least). But the reason I think this is different is because the US and Muslims are not engaged in war. There may have been an attack more than a decade ago that killed 2,973 people and the US may have retaliated by killings hundreds of thousands more, but that still doesn't put the US in a state of open war against Muslims. I am against the New York mayor.


Actually it is not a case for Bloomberg to decide, but what else he is going to say, he has to back up his own police department.

The American Civil Liberties Union will definitely take these cases to the Supreme Court. It'll be interesting to see what the outcome be.
 
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The issue is what the cops are getting trained with. The video in question is provided by the Muslim haters of the extreme right wing. Cops are generally not too bright to see through the politics the video carries.
 
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Well We've seen so many plots so i think it is somewhat justified.Better be safe then sorry.I mean why would innocent people be worried if police is investigating them?
 
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As New York police face the heat for arbitrary spying of citizens we ask if the US government will probe the matter.

An investigation has found further proof that the New York Police Department (NYPD) has been spying on citizens just based on their religion, Islam, and without any apparent evidence of criminal activity.

Back in August, The Associated Press first revealed that the NYPD, with the help of the CIA, developed one of the biggest domestic intelligence agencies in the country.

It targetted US citizens based solely on their religion or ethnicity.

Undercover officers nicknamed "rakers" were assigned to go into neighbourhoods and monitor the population.

Police built databases showing where Muslims live, where they buy groceries, what Internet cafes they use and where they watch sport.

Informants, whom they called "mosque crawlers", were used to attend religious services and then report back.

The Associated Press obtained the secret NYPD demographics reports that compiled information on people and places and activity at different locations.

There are many similar maps of a neighbourhood in Newark, where a range of halal grocery stores as well as mosques and madrasahs, or schools of Islamic learning, are clearly marked.

In addition to specific profiles of individual US citizens, there are also descriptions of activity at many locations.

For example, at one restaurant the file notes that Muslims, of Chinese descent, operate the restaurant. And that during the visit, three African Muslim males and an Egyptian male customer were observed dining, and that an Egyptian male customer had a conversation about a mosque nearby.

"The NYPD has established one of the most aggressive and effective intelligence systems since 9/11, based upon the fact that in the last 10 years 14 of the 19 significant plots have been against New York targets. It's not some kind of random ethnic or racial profiling. If you have an enemy that says they will murder people for their religion… that they are soldiers of Allah and recruiting people in mosques, you would be irresponsible not to find out who in these communities is a part of that potential threat group or is inciting others to violence."

- Sebastian Gorka, a national security analyst

"I disagree with Mr Gorka, because when it comes to surveillance and particularly investigative work you have to have individualised suspicion. There is a reason why our law requires [that], and reasonable suspicion and probable cause. I don't think the law supports this type of dragnet, profiling-based surveillance."

- Sahar Aziz, a former US Department of Homeland Security advisor


Meanwhile, Muslim groups, rights organisations and some US politicans have complained that civil liberties have been abused and they have called on the US government to investigate.

Now The Associated Press has revealed Muslim students at 16 universities across the northeastern US were also monitored.

Police looked at websites used by Muslim students, and even sent an undercover agent on a student trip.

There were new revelations that the NYPD also spied on Muslims in New Jersey. The governor there called the findings disturbing and there have been calls for an investigation.

Throughout the controversy, the mayor of New York, Michael Bloomberg, and the city's police commissioner have maintained that no lines were crossed and that the steps were taken to protect the city.

Following the latest revelations, Keith Ellison, a Democrat congressman and a Muslim, told Al Jazeera:

"Law enforcement must be done in accordance with the constitution, that means just snooping and spying on people where there's no factual basis to believe that they're involved in any kind of criminal activity just because of what their religion is, is disturbing to me. The NYPD crossed a moral line… whether they crossed a legal one is yet to be determined.

"The basic theme of our constitution is that if you're not doing anything wrong, government is supposed to leave you alone. But if somebody… a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu or anyone is doing something that looks like it's going to break the law, or is dangerous or harmful to others, then it is in fact the job of law enforcement to stop that."

So has the NYPD violated civil liberties by spying on Muslims? Should the US government investigate what has taken place?

To discuss this with presenter Lisa Fletcher on Inside Story Americas are: Sahar Aziz, a law professor at the Texas Wesleyan University School of Law and a former advisor for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties at the US Department of Homeland Security; Sebastian Gorka, a national security analyst at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies; and Haroon Moghul from the online magazine Religion Dispatches who has been working with Muslim groups in New York since these revelations were published.

We also invited representatives of the NYPD, the office of Michael Bloomberg, the New York mayor, and the US Department of Justice to appear on Al Jazeera, but they either declined or did not return our calls.

"It is inaccurate to say that you have to go find who these extremists are by going to mosques. You can ask American Muslims. The assumption is that American Muslims don't want to help out, and that is false. The fact is that American Muslims are your best resource in trying to stop [terror plots]. The behaviour of the NYPD has taken the trust between these communities and ruined it, and it has done significant damage."

Haroon Moghul from the online magazine Religion Dispatches


Is spying on Muslims legal in the US? - Inside Story Americas - Al Jazeera English

Lets talk about where spying on Muslims is not legal. Its legal even in Canada where the Pakistan Nationalist Association was systematically driven out by these backstabbers. We stand up to terrorism they love it. We stand up to US aggression against our homeland they place bugs everywhere. For political organizations until you live like their puppet with exactly their thinking they don't leave you.

American Patriot Act, Indian POTA all the brainchild of the same thinking. The thinking that wants to pick out any person without proof that he has committed a crime and treat him like a godamn terrorist. You remember the guy that was picked up after the Mumbai bombings. Not the big 10 gunmen attack, the smaller bomb attack blamed on Dawood Ibrahim. He died of a heart attack in custody. Guess what allowed his arrest on the basis of suspicion, the great Prevention of Terrorism Act re-enacted after the Mumbai attacks.

I have seen the framing of innocents in Canada. Suffered might be a better word. Question is were the toronto 17 really the toronto 17?

By the way just saying Pakistan needs that kind of act and we don't have it. These countries don't and they have it. Are they going through terrorist bombings daily or are we. Are our courts setting known militants free or are theirs? (The armies no 1 complaint with courts is setting free militants caught in battle.)
 
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Lets talk about where spying on Muslims is not legal. Its legal even in Canada where the Pakistan Nationalist Association was systematically driven out by these backstabbers. We stand up to terrorism they love it. We stand up to US aggression against our homeland they place bugs everywhere. For political organizations until you live like their puppet with exactly their thinking they don't leave you.

American Patriot Act, Indian POTA all the brainchild of the same thinking. The thinking that wants to pick out any person without proof that he has committed a crime and treat him like a godamn terrorist. You remember the guy that was picked up after the Mumbai bombings. Not the big 10 gunmen attack, the smaller bomb attack blamed on Dawood Ibrahim. He died of a heart attack in custody. Guess what allowed his arrest on the basis of suspicion, the great Prevention of Terrorism Act re-enacted after the Mumbai attacks.

I have seen the framing of innocents in Canada. Suffered might be a better word. Question is were the toronto 17 really the toronto 17?

By the way just saying Pakistan needs that kind of act and we don't have it. These countries don't and they have it. Are they going through terrorist bombings daily or are we. Are our courts setting known militants free or are theirs? (The armies no 1 complaint with courts is setting free militants caught in battle.)

Chicha they are American…They knows well that how to secure their homeland...They will do everything to achieve that goal. Does not matter you feel good or bad…Even I think nothing wrong in that...
 
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Technically it would be understandable why the US is doing it, but the innocent people don't want everything about their life exposed just because they have to prove they are innocent.
But then again, end the WoT and I can bet 90%+ "islamists" will calm down. Simple.
 
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