Is Pakistan Better Off Industrially (and More Diverse in Industrial Production) Compared to Bangladesh?

[Bilal9]

Truck Trailer Fifth Wheels Made From Old Ship High Strength Plate in Pakistan​

 

[peagle]

Truck Trailer Fifth Wheels Made From Old Ship High Strength Plate in Pakistan​

I was watching this video couple of weeks ago, and it reminded me of our discussion about Indian Punjab. I was going to post earlier but I was a bit busy.

Please watch from 11:40, if you are familiar with Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi then I hope you will grasp enough understanding.

Essentially he is saying that the people who migrated from Pakistan's engineering triangle of Gujranwala, Sialkot and Gujarat built the sports and surgical industries in Indian Punjab. I am certain those skills carried onto other industries. It sort of confirms my suspicions that, if at all they would have been influenced by Pakistani Punjab.

Pakistan had no major industry and very few light industries at independence. The sports and surgical goods industries that exist now only developed after independence from the local craftsmanship that existed at street level. This also reinforces your point that local skills can play a bigger role in the economy, given a suitable environment to expand.

From my understanding, these skills developed by chance, I can't remember the exact story but some British (master) lol was playing tennis or something and broke his racket, asked a local to repair it, they did a good job and the skills took root, something along those lines. The industrial use of those skills developed only after 1947, with the increasing need for foreign exchange reserves etc.

Similar situation developed in Pakistan's Pakhtunkhwa province, where they developed a thriving armament industry from skills acquired in similar situations to the Punjab.

I believe some controls have been placed on this trade, but previously, I have heard they could make rocket launchers, anti tank weapons and anti aircraft guns.

@HRK In the first video, I think you'll find the bit from 13:40 very interesting. It even surprised me, by the intensity of the incident being described.

 

[Bilal9]

I was watching this video couple of weeks ago, and it reminded me of our discussion about Indian Punjab. I was going to post earlier but I was a bit busy.

Please watch from 11:40, if you are familiar with Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi then I hope you will grasp enough understanding.

Essentially he is saying that the people who migrated from Pakistan's engineering triangle of Gujranwala, Sialkot and Gujarat built the sports and surgical industries in Indian Punjab. I am certain those skills carried onto other industries. It sort of confirms my suspicions that, if at all they would have been influenced by Pakistani Punjab.

Pakistan had no major industry and very few light industries at independence. The sports and surgical goods industries that exist now only developed after independence from the local craftsmanship that existed at street level. This also reinforces your point that local skills can play a bigger role in the economy, given a suitable environment to expand.

From my understanding, these skills developed by chance, I can't remember the exact story but some British (master) lol was playing tennis or something and broke his racket, asked a local to repair it, they did a good job and the skills took root, something along those lines. The industrial use of those skills developed only after 1947, with the increasing need for foreign exchange reserves etc.

Similar situation developed in Pakistan's Pakhtunkhwa province, where they developed a thriving armament industry from skills acquired in similar situations to the Punjab.

I believe some controls have been placed on this trade, but previously, I have heard they could make rocket launchers, anti tank weapons and anti aircraft guns.

@HRK In the first video, I think you'll find the bit from 13:40 very interesting. It even surprised me, by the intensity of the incident being described.

This is a great post Bhaisaab, but please allow me to answer in detail after I watch the videos. Agreed wholeheartedly about local artisanal and technical skills playing a huge role in the economy.

In the South bank of Dhaka's main river Buriganga, there is a community of artisans who are doing similar work, meaning replicating foreign and bespoke parts locally. This is a huge engine for Bangladesh economy and grew without any govt. support.

Now think what could happen if govt. gave these people loans and technical/vocational training to improve their product quality.

There are estimates which say that there are over 600,000 workers working in the space of less than a couple dozen square miles producing yearly turnover of 40,000 crore Taka in Jinjira.

 

[bluesky]

This is a great post Bhaisaab, but please allow me to answer in detail after I watch the videos. Agreed wholeheartedly about local artisanal and technical skills playing a huge role in the economy.

In the South bank of Dhaka's main river Buriganga, there is a community of artisans who are doing similar work, meaning replicating foreign and bespoke parts locally. This is a huge engine for Bangladesh economy and grew without any govt. support.

Now think what could happen if govt. gave these people loans and technical/vocational training to improve their product quality.

There are estimates which say that there are over 600,000 workers working in the space of less than a couple dozen square miles producing yearly turnover of 40,000 crore Taka in Jinjira.

The video reporting awoke me from ignorance. Jinjira and Dholai Khal together are building the industrial future of Bangladesh. I am surprised to see many modern machines are being used there.

However, I have regret that no company is trying to produce a prototype of an engine run by diesel or electricity. Even a small engine/ motor for pump machines would push the country forward.

Actually, it takes a long time and big money to do so because of many trials and errors. Hence required is the govt support to initiate and do follow ups of any such project.

Japanese small companies started Japan's economic miracle since after Meiji Restoration in 1868. However, Japan had one very strong metallurgical experience for many centuries. They produced the strongest swords in the world comparing to its weight.

This fundamental experience had a very strong impact on the subsequent machine-producing skills after 1868.

 

[Bilal9]

The first video below is the process of making a basic item like a stud bolt from standard rod in Pakistan - stud bolts are mainly used in the oil and gas industries and mainly in the Middle East (i.e Gulf countries) for oil transmission pipe joints. For these industries, Pakistanis are adding value to a commonly used export item and bringing in much needed revenue.

Look at how many processes (heating, various types of forging and machining steps) are used to add value to a common mild steel low value rod product - transforming it into a high value item. Such processes are not unthinkable in Bangladesh, but of course there is no tariff support for it because Indians make sure by bribing our India pa-chata ministers that no tariff every get placed on Indian products.

Nothing basic like this manufacturing exists in Bangladesh (which happens in Pakistan at a street shop basic appropriate technology level) yet some Bangladeshis boast as if their country has reached second world (nay first world) status.

Being an ahammuk (أحمق‎) has limits. Some Bangladeshis are clueless.

Look in the second video too, where a crankshaft is being machined from a mild steel cast item in Pakistan and how many shop steps it takes to make one. This crankshaft is for a common three cylinder Perkins engine (ex UK) used in a Massey Ferguson 240 tractor, which has been widely used (and was manufactured at a basic level) by local manufacturers. There are parts made for larger Perkins engines for larger tractors in Pakistan. Pakistanis more or less make all parts for their tractors. They are self-sufficient in making their own and superbly poised for exporting tractors at some point, with or without FDI.

3rd video shows the crankshaft blank being cast - which is being machined in the 2nd video.

Bangladesh has to reach Pakistan's level first. The sooner Bangladeshis realize this and mobilize manufacturing like this (common parts for common agricultural implements and automotive uses) to reach basic industrialization levels, the quicker we will reach 2nd world status. Japan did this a hundred years ago, China/Korea/Taiwan did this in the 1950s. Vietnam did this in the 1970s. We in Bangladesh cannot make basic parts like these. We run to India and look for cheap parts the first chance we get. Indians are too happy to make our people dependent on their products. Govt. will not provide any tariff or policy support to provide boost to local industry, the idiot bribe-mongers that they are, Apparel will take us every where and make us Shonar Bangla. Very sad.

@bluesky bhai your comments please.

 

[Rushd Alam]

The first video below is the process of making a basic item like a stud bolt from standard rod in Pakistan - stud bolts are mainly used in the oil and gas industries and mainly in the Middle East (i.e Gulf countries) for pipe joints. For these industries, Pakistanis are adding value to a commonly used export item and bringing in much needed revenue.

Look at how many processes (heating, various types of forging and machining steps) are used to add value to a common mild steel low value rod product - transforming it into a high value item. Such processes are not unthinkable in Bangladesh, but of course there is no tariff support for it because Indians make sure by bribing our India pa-chata ministers that no tariff every get placed on Indian products.

Nothing basic like this manufacturing exists in Bangladesh (which happens in Pakistan at a street shop basic appropriate technology level) yet some Bangladeshis boast as if their country has reached second world (nay first world) status.

Being an ahammuk (أحمق‎) has limits. Some Bangladeshis are clueless.

Look in the second video too, where a crankshaft is being machined from a mild steel cast item in Pakistan and how many shop steps it takes to make one. This crankshaft is for a common three cylinder Perkins engine (ex UK) used in a Massey Ferguson 240 tractor, which has been widely used (and was manufactured at a basic level) by local manufacturers. There are parts made for larger Perkins engines for larger tractors in Pakistan.

3rd video shows the crankshaft blank being cast - which is being machined in the 2nd video.

Bangladesh has to reach Pakistan's level first. The sooner Bangladeshis realize this and mobilize manufacturing like this (common parts for common agricultural implements and automotive uses) to reach basic industrialization levels, the quicker we will reach 2nd world status. Japan did this a hundred years ago, China/Korea/Taiwan did this in the 1950s. Vietnam did this in the 1970s. We in Bangladesh cannot make basic parts like these. We run to India and look for cheap parts the first chance we get. Indians are too happy to make our people dependent on their products. Govt. will not provide any tariff or policy support to provide boost to local industry, the idiot bribe-mongers that they are, Apparel will take us every where and make us Shonar Bangla. Very sad.

@bluesky bhai your comments please.

Bro why would you differntiate this small engineering workshops with what we have in Jinjira. I have. Heard so much about Jinjira but you may shed some light why this pakistani workshops are far ahead. Maybe they are!! But would love to know why??

 

[Rushd Alam]

The first video below is the process of making a basic item like a stud bolt from standard rod in Pakistan - stud bolts are mainly used in the oil and gas industries and mainly in the Middle East (i.e Gulf countries) for oil transmission pipe joints. For these industries, Pakistanis are adding value to a commonly used export item and bringing in much needed revenue.

Look at how many processes (heating, various types of forging and machining steps) are used to add value to a common mild steel low value rod product - transforming it into a high value item. Such processes are not unthinkable in Bangladesh, but of course there is no tariff support for it because Indians make sure by bribing our India pa-chata ministers that no tariff every get placed on Indian products.

Nothing basic like this manufacturing exists in Bangladesh (which happens in Pakistan at a street shop basic appropriate technology level) yet some Bangladeshis boast as if their country has reached second world (nay first world) status.

Being an ahammuk (أحمق‎) has limits. Some Bangladeshis are clueless.

Look in the second video too, where a crankshaft is being machined from a mild steel cast item in Pakistan and how many shop steps it takes to make one. This crankshaft is for a common three cylinder Perkins engine (ex UK) used in a Massey Ferguson 240 tractor, which has been widely used (and was manufactured at a basic level) by local manufacturers. There are parts made for larger Perkins engines for larger tractors in Pakistan. Pakistanis more or less make all parts for their tractors. They are self-sufficient in making their own and superbly poised for exporting tractors at some point, with or without FDI.

3rd video shows the crankshaft blank being cast - which is being machined in the 2nd video.

Bangladesh has to reach Pakistan's level first. The sooner Bangladeshis realize this and mobilize manufacturing like this (common parts for common agricultural implements and automotive uses) to reach basic industrialization levels, the quicker we will reach 2nd world status. Japan did this a hundred years ago, China/Korea/Taiwan did this in the 1950s. Vietnam did this in the 1970s. We in Bangladesh cannot make basic parts like these. We run to India and look for cheap parts the first chance we get. Indians are too happy to make our people dependent on their products. Govt. will not provide any tariff or policy support to provide boost to local industry, the idiot bribe-mongers that they are, Apparel will take us every where and make us Shonar Bangla. Very sad.

@bluesky bhai your comments please.

https://youtu.be/xhztj2UK7KY

Bangladesh exported half a billion in 2021 so should not be far behind

 

[Bilal9]

Bro why would you differntiate this small engineering workshops with what we have in Jinjira. I have. Heard so much about Jinjira but you may shed some light why this pakistani workshops are far ahead. Maybe they are!! But would love to know why??

Jinjira people are illiterate as well but their value addition processes are at a lower level because lower grade of people go into these professions compared to Pakistan. I have seen operations in Jinjira personally when in Dhaka. They can cast "Cast iron" items and machine them (same as Pakistan) but the workmanship, quality and the skills attempted are at a lower level.

RFL is a large company that makes cast Iron tube-wells. Pakistanis make transmission differentials and engine crankshafts (mostly for tractors and motorcycles. Huge difference in pricing.

Pakistani roadside workshops make forged engine crankshafts, piston arms and machine them with superior accuracy (hard to believe Bangladesh is even lower grade than this but it is true). Bangladesh output is simpler (machined nuts/bolts type things and small stamped Sheetmetal products), but both in quality and Quantity Pakistani operations are much more involved and the products are varied. Gujranwala corridor near Lahore is the center of light engg. companies in Pakistan and grew up since 1947.

I don't have to say anything about Sialkot (also same area near Lahore) which is famous for cutlery, silverware and surgical instruments (including knives and shears). Bangladesh has no equivalent to that.

Pakistanis also make all of their machinery themselves which Bangladesh does not. Lathes, Milling Machines, shapers, gear cutters mostly made locally. Very active sector. Bangladesh imports machinery from overseas, village workshops use some local lathes but mostly machinery comes cheap from India.

Bangladeshi lathe operators don't know basics of annealing and heat treatment while these processes are commonplace in Pakistan, even in roadside shops.

If Pakistanis invest in Bangladesh in these small operations, then Bangladesh can substitute imported auto parts and products made with ship--breaking scrap.

Go through all the fifteen pages in this thread and see the videos, you will see my point of view.

So the problem being what it is - what is the Bangladesh govt. doing about it?

Nothing, zero, nada, zilch.

Haramkhor ministers in Hasina's cabinets (some of them Indian agents) are being bribed by India and ensure no or minimal tariffs on Indian imports - the same thing Zinjira makes. How can local industry compete?

These AL ministers support Indian industry, not ours. One of them is commerce minister Tipu Munshi. #1 Indian agent, just like the Tata and Hero Motorcycle Indian agent, Abdul Matlub Ahmed.

If Zinjira people got policy and tariff support - they could supply local needs and employ more people. Build up our industrial capability and even diversify our export basket at some point.

 

[Bilal9]

Bangladesh exported half a billion in 2021 so should not be far behind

These Dhakaiya guys in the video remind me of the song,

"Amaro Diler Chot - bojhena kono halai....
Faisa Gechi Mainkar Chipae"

 

[Dalit]

No comparison whatsoever. BD walks over Pakistan. Pakistanis are moving their textile industries from Pakistan to BD. It is obvious why they are doing this. In Pakistan there are only hurdles, corruption and complications. In BD you are less likely to face these hurdles because the BD government is more mature and serious about developing their country. Pakistan is run by illegitimate and corrupt crooks with the help of the Pakistani army. This country has barely any future. Pakistani economy is literally run by the Americans and IMF loans. That is not the case for BD. It is a no-brainer that BD is ahead of Pakistan in almost every single indicator and rightly so.

 

[Bilal9]

No comparison whatsoever. BD walks over Pakistan. Pakistanis are moving their textile industries from Pakistan to BD. It is obvious why they are doing this. In Pakistan there are only hurdles, corruption and complications. In BD you are less likely to face these hurdles because the BD government is more mature and serious about developing their country. Pakistan is run by illegitimate and corrupt crooks with the help of the Pakistani army. This country has barely any future. Pakistani economy is literally run by the Americans and IMF loans. That is not the case for BD. It is a no-brainer that BD is ahead of Pakistan in almost every single indicator and rightly so.

That is a very pessimistic take on Pakistan's future. Pakistan isn't going bankrupt soon.

It is however going through a rough patch.

The reason I propose more trade between both countries is that it could be beneficial to Pakistan.

Bangladesh does almost $50 Billion worth of trade with India every year.

Why can't Pakistan take India's place - will it be harmful to Pakistan?

Right now there is minimal trade between both countries, mostly Pakistani cotton goes to Bangladesh.

Pakistani Businessmen can take the first step in enhancing trade further.

What is wrong with you bangali's

Why always measure stick is Pakistan..
You are way ahead now get on with it
But sad fact is no matter how you fudge numbers you know the reality.

There is no measure stick. We are talking about how to enhance trade between both countries...

 

[Dalit]

That is a very pessimistic take on Pakistan's future. Pakistan isn't going bankrupt soon.

It is however going through a rough patch.

The reason I propose more trade between both countries is that it could be beneficial to Pakistan.

Bangladesh does almost $50 Billion worth of trade with India every year.

Why can't Pakistan take India's place - will it be harmful to Pakistan?

Pakistani Businessmen can take the first step.

Pakistan is a lost country. It has zero future. Pakistan is a country where the military calls the shots with the help of the Americans. Such a country doesn't deserve any respite nor credit. BD did well after seeking independence. Look at BD economic progress compared to corrupt Pakistan. These are two world's apart. Pakistani economy is on IMF ventilator and things are set to get much worse in the coming years.

Only a fool would still have faith in Pakistan. Pakistan is only for the military and political rulers. The common man has no future in Pakistan. BD should be happy.

 

[Black Tornado]

Bangladesh does almost $50 Billion worth of trade with India every year.

 

[Bilal9]

View attachment 858002

B U L L $ H I T....

Count the illegal Indians working in Bangladesh remitting money via Hundi ($10 Billion per annum easily), unofficial smuggling of Indian goods to Bangladesh (everything under the sun), smuggling of Bangladeshi (subsidized) petroleum to India, medical and retail tourism (easily $20 Billion yearly). Real number could exceed $50 Billion per year very easily.

Don't try to hijack the thread - you will be reported.

@Homo Sapiens, @EasyNow bhais am I off too much?

 

[Black Tornado]

B U L L $ H I T....

Count the illegal Indians working in Bangladesh remitting money via Hundi ($10 Billion per annum easily), unofficial smuggling of Indian goods to Bangladesh (everything under the sun), smuggling of Bangladeshi (subsidized) petroleum to India, medical and retail tourism (easily $20 Billion yearly). Real number could exceed $50 Billion per year very easily.

@Homo Sapiens, @EasyNow bhais am I off too much?

Thanks for the disclaimer before writing this up…