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Is it possibility the Indians didn’t know how to use their equipment for Jf-17 shooting down SU-30 in Feb 2019?
Is it possibility the Indians don’t know how to use their equipment for Jf-17 vs SU-30 shot down in Feb 2019? We have to understand the psych behind India's failure in confronting deadly Pakistani Jets. The Indians look like they have become failures in Arab mindsets of purchasing equipment off the shelf instead of mastering them? From the looks of it New Dehli government just gave careless orders to its Air Force which in return the Air Force was average performance instead of top notch due to its training in pilots of flight hours.
First you have to understand how targets are tracked and fired upon.
Jf-17, Su-30MKI, and Rafale, like all modern aircraft have a radar that emits radiation waves. When these radiation waves hit a sizable object, they will reflect back to the radar receiver but only if the object is within the radar's tracking range.
Below are the radars of each aircraft and their maximum tracking ranges,
Rafale RBE2-AA: 200km
SU-30MKI N011M: 200km
Jf-17 Block I KLJ-7: 105km
Jf-17 Block II KLJ-7A-V2: 200km
[There is a problem not easily seen with above numbers that I will discuss at the end]
These radars will not track just any object (i.e. birds) but objects that have one or more of the following:
Large size: the larger the size, the easier the tracking
Large heat emission (i.e. from engine exhaust): the larger the heat emission, the easier the tracking
Radiation emissions (i.e. from object's radar): the larger the radiation emission, the easier the tracking.
You can go pretty undetected on any radar if you manage to somehow mask/reduce/eliminate #3.
#1 provides detection by the fact that airplanes have large bodies that heat up due to air friction and that heat spreads throughout the entire metallic airframe, but this only provides a weak signal known as an RCS (radar cross section). Interestingly, the Su-30MKI has one of the largest RCS of any fighter aircraft in the world. Rafale has a low RCS.
#2 provides detection by the fact that the engine nozzles and the exhaust gases are extremely hot and easily picked on by enemy radars, but the problem with this is that if the engine nozzles are facing away from you, your aircraft will not get good signals (because the body of enemy aircraft will be infront of it's hot engine nozzles); meaning, if your enemy is flying straight towards you, his engine nozzles will be hidden behind his aircraft.
#3 provides detection by the fact that the enemy aircraft’s radar, IF TURNED ON, will be emitting radiation emissions all around it for it's own purpose, and the radar reciever in your aircraft can pick enemy radiation very accurately and very precisely, to provide a strong signal.
In addition to these, air forces also operate another type of surveillance aircraft called an AWACSwhose only sole purpose of existence is to track enemies at long ranges and provide electronic intelligence, out of harm's way itself.
Below is a list of IAF & PAF AWACS and their maximum ranges,
IAF EL/W-2090: 400km
PAF Erieye: 450km
PAF ZDK-03: +400km (+undisclosed range)
Now, let me give you a simple hypothetical scenario with which you can build a reasonable imagination of how all this works (and I'll give you some common obstacles that arise in these scenarios),
Scenario 1:
IAF Su-30MKI with its radar turned on enters Pakistan Airspace. PAF sends Jf-17 with its radar turned off to intercept the intruder. Range between both aircraft is 75km and closing. Su-30MKI will have a very difficult time tracking the Jf-17 due to it's small size and no radiation emission. Jf-17 with radar off cannot track Su-30MKI on it's own BUT it can use datalinks from an Erieye +300km away that has been tracking the Su-30MKI. The Erieye will be out of the max. 200km Su-30MKI's tracking range. If Su-30MKI cannot track its enemy, it cannot shoot its enemy, and most likely it will get shot down by Jf-17.
Scenario 2:
IAF Su-30MKI with radar off, datalinked to a EL/W-2090 AWACS 200km behind it, enters Pakistan Airspace. PAF dispatches Jf-17 with radar off, datalinked to an Erieye AWACS 200km behind it. 75km distance between IAF and PAF. Both Su-30MKI and Jf-17 will have difficulty tracking each other but the odds will favor Jf-17 because it's small size (small RCS) and single-engine (small heat emission) is more difficult to track for the IAF AWACS, versus a larger size (larger RCS) and double-engined (larger heat emission) Su-30MKI which will be easier to track for the PAF AWACS.
In both scenarios, Su-30MKI is at a disadvantage. This disadvantage is not necessarily the fault of the plane, but the situation. The situation is the Su-30MKI is entering beyond its territory into hostile territory where the enemy has more electronic coverage than IAF can get. If Rafale was used instead, it would have a better chance because of its smaller RCS but it would still be at a clear disadvantage due to more electronic coverage that defenders usually have.
Scenario 3:
Su-30MKI or Rafale with radar turned off, datalinked to EL/W-2090 AWACS 200km behind, enters 5km inside Pakistan Airspace. PAF dispatches low-flying Jf-17 50km away with radar off, datalinked to Erieye 200km behind as well as numerous powerful ground-based stationary radars and mobile radars with tracking ranges in excess of hundreds of kilometers. Obstacle: numerous mountains between the IAF and Jf-17 make it impossible for the EL/W-2090 to track the Jf-17. When the IAF crosses over a mountain (or even before), it will probably be in the tracking range of ground-based radars which will be linked to the Jf-17. In this scenario, Jf-17 will most likely shoot down the Su-30MKI/Rafale. Indian ground-based radars cannot track anything behind a mountain (radiation waves travel in straight lines).
Pakistan Army's Mobile Radar IBIS-150 has a 150km tracking range and it can move anywhere in the country, behind, in front, or in between mountains. This is just one type, there are many more ground based radars equipped in Pakistan army, including the mobile LY-80 with a 140km range stacked with a surface-to-air missile to do the job of interception.
This is the defender's advantage which allows inferior aircraft to shoot down superior aircraft.
If Jf-17 went head-to-head versus an Su-30MKI or Rafale, 75km apart in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, Jf-17 would most likely be shot down. But at its home turf where it has greater access to electronic coverage from multiple sources, head-to-head it will likely win most battles.
If you look at modern conflicts, i.e. invasion of Iraq or the aerial strikes of Libya, the first thing the Americans would do is to take out the radar stations with long-range cruise missiles.
The stealthiest aircraft in the world, the F-117.. do you know why it was so stealthy? Because it did not have a radar! It relied entirely on datalinks. Yet still, somebody managed to shoot it down.
At the end of the day, what really matters is the people operating all the different machines and systems. If they are more motivated than you, have a higher morale than you, less stressed than you, more intelligent than you, you will likely lose the battle regardless of how superior your equipment is.
Source Quora https://qr.ae/TW8Qwb
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Is it possibility the Indians don’t know how to use their equipment for Jf-17 vs SU-30 shot down in Feb 2019? We have to understand the psych behind India's failure in confronting deadly Pakistani Jets. The Indians look like they have become failures in Arab mindsets of purchasing equipment off the shelf instead of mastering them? From the looks of it New Dehli government just gave careless orders to its Air Force which in return the Air Force was average performance instead of top notch due to its training in pilots of flight hours.
First you have to understand how targets are tracked and fired upon.
Jf-17, Su-30MKI, and Rafale, like all modern aircraft have a radar that emits radiation waves. When these radiation waves hit a sizable object, they will reflect back to the radar receiver but only if the object is within the radar's tracking range.
Below are the radars of each aircraft and their maximum tracking ranges,
Rafale RBE2-AA: 200km
SU-30MKI N011M: 200km
Jf-17 Block I KLJ-7: 105km
Jf-17 Block II KLJ-7A-V2: 200km
[There is a problem not easily seen with above numbers that I will discuss at the end]
These radars will not track just any object (i.e. birds) but objects that have one or more of the following:
Large size: the larger the size, the easier the tracking
Large heat emission (i.e. from engine exhaust): the larger the heat emission, the easier the tracking
Radiation emissions (i.e. from object's radar): the larger the radiation emission, the easier the tracking.
You can go pretty undetected on any radar if you manage to somehow mask/reduce/eliminate #3.
#1 provides detection by the fact that airplanes have large bodies that heat up due to air friction and that heat spreads throughout the entire metallic airframe, but this only provides a weak signal known as an RCS (radar cross section). Interestingly, the Su-30MKI has one of the largest RCS of any fighter aircraft in the world. Rafale has a low RCS.
#2 provides detection by the fact that the engine nozzles and the exhaust gases are extremely hot and easily picked on by enemy radars, but the problem with this is that if the engine nozzles are facing away from you, your aircraft will not get good signals (because the body of enemy aircraft will be infront of it's hot engine nozzles); meaning, if your enemy is flying straight towards you, his engine nozzles will be hidden behind his aircraft.
#3 provides detection by the fact that the enemy aircraft’s radar, IF TURNED ON, will be emitting radiation emissions all around it for it's own purpose, and the radar reciever in your aircraft can pick enemy radiation very accurately and very precisely, to provide a strong signal.
In addition to these, air forces also operate another type of surveillance aircraft called an AWACSwhose only sole purpose of existence is to track enemies at long ranges and provide electronic intelligence, out of harm's way itself.
Below is a list of IAF & PAF AWACS and their maximum ranges,
IAF EL/W-2090: 400km
PAF Erieye: 450km
PAF ZDK-03: +400km (+undisclosed range)
Now, let me give you a simple hypothetical scenario with which you can build a reasonable imagination of how all this works (and I'll give you some common obstacles that arise in these scenarios),
Scenario 1:
IAF Su-30MKI with its radar turned on enters Pakistan Airspace. PAF sends Jf-17 with its radar turned off to intercept the intruder. Range between both aircraft is 75km and closing. Su-30MKI will have a very difficult time tracking the Jf-17 due to it's small size and no radiation emission. Jf-17 with radar off cannot track Su-30MKI on it's own BUT it can use datalinks from an Erieye +300km away that has been tracking the Su-30MKI. The Erieye will be out of the max. 200km Su-30MKI's tracking range. If Su-30MKI cannot track its enemy, it cannot shoot its enemy, and most likely it will get shot down by Jf-17.
Scenario 2:
IAF Su-30MKI with radar off, datalinked to a EL/W-2090 AWACS 200km behind it, enters Pakistan Airspace. PAF dispatches Jf-17 with radar off, datalinked to an Erieye AWACS 200km behind it. 75km distance between IAF and PAF. Both Su-30MKI and Jf-17 will have difficulty tracking each other but the odds will favor Jf-17 because it's small size (small RCS) and single-engine (small heat emission) is more difficult to track for the IAF AWACS, versus a larger size (larger RCS) and double-engined (larger heat emission) Su-30MKI which will be easier to track for the PAF AWACS.
In both scenarios, Su-30MKI is at a disadvantage. This disadvantage is not necessarily the fault of the plane, but the situation. The situation is the Su-30MKI is entering beyond its territory into hostile territory where the enemy has more electronic coverage than IAF can get. If Rafale was used instead, it would have a better chance because of its smaller RCS but it would still be at a clear disadvantage due to more electronic coverage that defenders usually have.
Scenario 3:
Su-30MKI or Rafale with radar turned off, datalinked to EL/W-2090 AWACS 200km behind, enters 5km inside Pakistan Airspace. PAF dispatches low-flying Jf-17 50km away with radar off, datalinked to Erieye 200km behind as well as numerous powerful ground-based stationary radars and mobile radars with tracking ranges in excess of hundreds of kilometers. Obstacle: numerous mountains between the IAF and Jf-17 make it impossible for the EL/W-2090 to track the Jf-17. When the IAF crosses over a mountain (or even before), it will probably be in the tracking range of ground-based radars which will be linked to the Jf-17. In this scenario, Jf-17 will most likely shoot down the Su-30MKI/Rafale. Indian ground-based radars cannot track anything behind a mountain (radiation waves travel in straight lines).
Pakistan Army's Mobile Radar IBIS-150 has a 150km tracking range and it can move anywhere in the country, behind, in front, or in between mountains. This is just one type, there are many more ground based radars equipped in Pakistan army, including the mobile LY-80 with a 140km range stacked with a surface-to-air missile to do the job of interception.
This is the defender's advantage which allows inferior aircraft to shoot down superior aircraft.
If Jf-17 went head-to-head versus an Su-30MKI or Rafale, 75km apart in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, Jf-17 would most likely be shot down. But at its home turf where it has greater access to electronic coverage from multiple sources, head-to-head it will likely win most battles.
If you look at modern conflicts, i.e. invasion of Iraq or the aerial strikes of Libya, the first thing the Americans would do is to take out the radar stations with long-range cruise missiles.
The stealthiest aircraft in the world, the F-117.. do you know why it was so stealthy? Because it did not have a radar! It relied entirely on datalinks. Yet still, somebody managed to shoot it down.
At the end of the day, what really matters is the people operating all the different machines and systems. If they are more motivated than you, have a higher morale than you, less stressed than you, more intelligent than you, you will likely lose the battle regardless of how superior your equipment is.
Source Quora https://qr.ae/TW8Qwb
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