Is economics the reason why US is closer to India than Pakistan?

[RobbieS]

I am sure most members would agree with me that in recent years (post 9/11) the US has gravitated much closer to India than to its long-term ally Pakistan. While this has caused considerable glee in India and spite in Pakistan, I wanted to explore and discuss causes for this change in position.

But first, some instances of US's shifting support-

1. Civilian Nuclear deal for India and other benefits (acceptance into NSG, and other Nuclear powers like France and Russia)
While inspite of a persistent demand, Pakistan hasn't received the same benefits. US has consistently sought to de-link the energy and economic requirements of the two countries and has espoused India's needs as a special case.

2. Continued investment (FDI/FII) in India by US based companies. Dell, IBM, Microsoft, GM, Ford, GE, Texas Instruments-the list is endless. More than USD 33 billion invested in India via US (2000-2009). Link -http://dipp.nic.in/fdi_statistics/india_FDI_August2009.pdf
Whereas Pakistan hardly recieved about USD 4billion worth of US investments during the same period.

3. Modern arms and weapons offers to India (MRCA, C-130 deal) inspite of India's antagonistic cold war alignments.
Whereas Pakistan recieved F-16s from the US after continued and long lasting deliberations and as reward for the help in war-on-terror.

I believe the major reason for this shift in US policies is economics. With India being the 4th largest economy in the world (PPP) it provides a huge market for US goods and services. Not to forget the huge talent pool of engineers, call center workers, and other professionals that India provides. Stable and good relations with India are imperative for a US economy going through tough times.

Another reason could be the geo-political situation in the region. China is now the major challenger to US economic and military might. India can be an effective counter weight to China if dealt and supported in the right manner.

In fact a major reason that Pakistan is still getting US and Western support is due to 9/11. If 9/11 hadn't happened, the world attention wouldn't have been focused on the Afghanistan-Pakistan area. Pakistan would have been a country ruled by a military dictator and a pariah in world's eyes. So Pakistan in a way got some positives out of 9/11. It got the world's attention (mainly negative though), foreign aid, military help and above all a democracy (partially functioning).

But I believe if Pakistan is to really uplift its standing in the eyes of the world, than economic growth is the way to go. Though Pakistan's economy has performed reasonably well in the last decade (as shown by the KSE) it needs to further develop its economy. And along with it, develop talent, capital and infrastructure so that the world pays attention to Pakistan not only in bad times but also in good times.

I believe my post might be seen as inflaming and derogatory to Pakistan by many. My main purpose here is to initiate a discussion and explore causes with both Pakistani and Indian members. And I do not mean to compare India and Pakistan, both have very different economies. The instances I posted above were more towards illuminating a situation rather than to engage in a "I am bigger than you" discussion.

 

[zagahaga]

yes it is preety known that the reason why ondia is ghetting so much attention beacuse they have everything! hope for the best of them

 

[New Shivaji]

Ofcourse economics play a very large in defining relationships between countries, and the next important factor would be geo-stratergic situations.

** Its all to do with Countries Interests.

 

[dabong1]

I hope you have good friendship with the US......The most trustworthy friend you can have when you need them the most

 

[Iggy]

I hope you have good friendship with the US......The most trustworthy friend you can have when you need them the most

Trustworthy or not we need to have a better relation with US for better access to their economy ..And also dont forget US is the sole reason India came out from the isolation in NSG..I dont think any other country other than US wud be successful in passing that bill in NSG which contains nations like Japan and Australia...Since India is growing and it has to tackle the energy needs and better market..A good relation with US necessary

 

[Nemesis]

Rather be friends with the US than China. Despite what the US does in the future, i'm pretty sure they won't stab us in the back like the PRC did in 62.

Our close links with the US is a result of a multitude of factors. Business/Democracy/ convergence on China/ threat from religious militancy/ etc.

 

[RobbieS]

I hope you have good friendship with the US......The most trustworthy friend you can have when you need them the most

I would agree with Seiko here. India needs to be very pragmatic and use realpolitik in its relations with US. The best relation would be of like the Israelis have with US. Strong internal US support (owing to large Jewish population, in India's case the Indophiles and the Indian diaspora) and strong economic support. At the same time India's economy should be thriving and diversified enough so that it wont be dependent on US alone.

 

[dabong1]

Rather be friends with the US than China. Despite what the US does in the future, i'm pretty sure they won't stab us in the back like the PRC did in 62.

I think you will find that it was other way round......the indians stabbed the chinese in the back.

 

[gpit]

Rather be friends with the US than China. Despite what the US does in the future, i'm pretty sure they won't stab us in the back like the PRC did in 62.

Our close links with the US is a result of a multitude of factors. Business/Democracy/ convergence on China/ threat from religious militancy/ etc.

'm not saying you don't be friend with US,... but that mentality explains perhaps why you are sitting in a ring of fire, a fire set by you on your neighbors.

Suppose what you have hoped come true that one day Sino-India war erupts and US come to your rescue. It is your people who get devastated; it is your country that gets destroyed. US sell weapons to you and you have to pay back later…

We haven’t considered the perpetual animosity between India and its neighbors, that costs you enormous…

Truly foolish mentality.

BTW, second-hand imperialism is more costly than first-hand imperialism.

 

[SandsofTime]

Good luck with your special relations with US. I am sure we Pakistanis here will do just fine without any special status. There are enough partners for us to do business with.

 

[TruthSeeker]

The main reason that the USA did NOT have better relations with India until the past five years is because India did not want such relations. India's foreign investment laws and its internal politics were such that it did not WANT to be "aligned" with the US. India feared that the US would supplant the UK as a new master and wanted to develop independently. Now that India is well on the road to development, India has the confidence to be engaged more deeply with the USA without fearing the loss of it's independence. That is, it is now strong enough to be a partner with. and not a supplicant of. the USA. It is unfortunate that much of the investment by USA and Japanese companies that went into China did not go into India instead. The fact was, however, that India was afraid to accept such foreign capital investments.

 

[bigmoneymaker]

the interests of usa is above all else, that is the truth and some basic derived rules usa believe.

 

[conworldus]

I am sure most members would agree with me that in recent years (post 9/11) the US has gravitated much closer to India than to its long-term ally Pakistan. While this has caused considerable glee in India and spite in Pakistan, I wanted to explore and discuss causes for this change in position.

But first, some instances of US's shifting support-

1. Civilian Nuclear deal for India and other benefits (acceptance into NSG, and other Nuclear powers like France and Russia)
While inspite of a persistent demand, Pakistan hasn't received the same benefits. US has consistently sought to de-link the energy and economic requirements of the two countries and has espoused India's needs as a special case.

2. Continued investment (FDI/FII) in India by US based companies. Dell, IBM, Microsoft, GM, Ford, GE, Texas Instruments-the list is endless. More than USD 33 billion invested in India via US (2000-2009). Link -http://dipp.nic.in/fdi_statistics/india_FDI_August2009.pdf
Whereas Pakistan hardly recieved about USD 4billion worth of US investments during the same period.

3. Modern arms and weapons offers to India (MRCA, C-130 deal) inspite of India's antagonistic cold war alignments.
Whereas Pakistan recieved F-16s from the US after continued and long lasting deliberations and as reward for the help in war-on-terror.

I believe the major reason for this shift in US policies is economics. With India being the 4th largest economy in the world (PPP) it provides a huge market for US goods and services. Not to forget the huge talent pool of engineers, call center workers, and other professionals that India provides. Stable and good relations with India are imperative for a US economy going through tough times.

Another reason could be the geo-political situation in the region. China is now the major challenger to US economic and military might. India can be an effective counter weight to China if dealt and supported in the right manner.

In fact a major reason that Pakistan is still getting US and Western support is due to 9/11. If 9/11 hadn't happened, the world attention wouldn't have been focused on the Afghanistan-Pakistan area. Pakistan would have been a country ruled by a military dictator and a pariah in world's eyes. So Pakistan in a way got some positives out of 9/11. It got the world's attention (mainly negative though), foreign aid, military help and above all a democracy (partially functioning).

But I believe if Pakistan is to really uplift its standing in the eyes of the world, than economic growth is the way to go. Though Pakistan's economy has performed reasonably well in the last decade (as shown by the KSE) it needs to further develop its economy. And along with it, develop talent, capital and infrastructure so that the world pays attention to Pakistan not only in bad times but also in good times.

I believe my post might be seen as inflaming and derogatory to Pakistan by many. My main purpose here is to initiate a discussion and explore causes with both Pakistani and Indian members. And I do not mean to compare India and Pakistan, both have very different economies. The instances I posted above were more towards illuminating a situation rather than to engage in a "I am bigger than you" discussion.

I doubt it. Bilateral trade between India and the U.S is quite small at this moment to make a different at all.

Besides, the U.S is not closer to India than Pakistans. Both are pawns to the U.S.

 

[Nemesis]

I think you will find that it was other way round......the indians stabbed the chinese in the back.

Quick questions for you, which was the second democratic nation to recognize the People's Republic of China? Which nation, throughout the 50s, used its largely favorable world opinion, to campaign for the recognition of the PRC?

Which nation gave up a security council seat in favour of China?

Which nation advocated the principals of Panchsheel - peaceful coexistence - with China?

No, i think you would find that it is China stabbed us in the back. Please stop considering the opinions of Neville Maxwell as some sort of gospel truth. He is a hack journalist with no credibility.

 

[Kaali]

Good luck with your special relations with US. I am sure we Pakistanis here will do just fine without any special status. There are enough partners for us to do business with.

And who are they............ chinese